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Old 2009-08-13, 05:09   Link #1181
sento
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He said that the "pivotal answers" will come in EP6 and EP7. What he wants is theorization until the end.

And he said that EP5 comes with a trap: "This time, there will be a harsh trap, I believe those who have in some way penetrated to the core of story won't get tricked, those who haven't will probably think 'Huh?' I wish I could say more, but I can't(laughs)."
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Old 2009-08-13, 08:42   Link #1182
Volcanic
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By what Ryukishi has said, I've finally sort of realized how different Umineko and Higurashi really are.
Spoiler for Higurashi Season 1:
In Umineko, you have no real clue who killed anyone.

In Higurashi, those last few arcs were for answers while completing the story. In Umineko, it'll be awhile before the story ends, and we might not even get the answers to everything.
Spoiler for Higurashi Kai\Matsuri:
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Old 2009-08-13, 09:30   Link #1183
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Well, Ryuukishi has also said that since people are going to be expecting answers in the second half, he'll probably end up giving some.

No, he does not intend to make any arcs past the Core Arcs. In Higurashi, he was criticized sometimes for spelling out every detail of the answer clearly for the readers, and for revealing quite a lot in the second to last arc. In Umineko, it sounds like he plans to leave some major mysteries until the very end, and some things might never be explicitly explained.
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Old 2009-08-13, 11:11   Link #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Well, Ryuukishi has also said that since people are going to be expecting answers in the second half, he'll probably end up giving some.

No, he does not intend to make any arcs past the Core Arcs. In Higurashi, he was criticized sometimes for spelling out every detail of the answer clearly for the readers, and for revealing quite a lot in the second to last arc. In Umineko, it sounds like he plans to leave some major mysteries until the very end, and some things might never be explicitly explained.
Ugh... that last part sounds... meh.

The way of revealing the mysteries and everything sounds really interesting, but I really don't like when there are STILL mysteries and questions even after the story is over. =/
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Old 2009-08-13, 11:34   Link #1185
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100 bucks says Battler never totally disproves witches :| -shot-
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Old 2009-08-13, 12:39   Link #1186
Volcanic
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
100 bucks says Battler never totally disproves witches :| -shot-
Actually this might really happen if he teams up with Beato. By the time they've "defeated" the enemy, they've formed such a friendship Battler can't bear to say "Witches' don't exist" in Red unless there's some way she's still around after. Which is probably the "bittersweet" ending I mentioned, because we all really do like Beato.

Quote:
The way of revealing the mysteries and everything sounds really interesting, but I really don't like when there are STILL mysteries and questions even after the story is over. =/
Spoiler for Higurashi Kai:
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Old 2009-08-13, 12:47   Link #1187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sento View Post
He said that the "pivotal answers" will come in EP6 and EP7. What he wants is theorization until the end.

And he said that EP5 comes with a trap: "This time, there will be a harsh trap, I believe those who have in some way penetrated to the core of story won't get tricked, those who haven't will probably think 'Huh?' I wish I could say more, but I can't(laughs)."
Never change, Ryuukishi. I can actually see how people can get tricked, but I wouldn't put it past him to completely blow our minds later.
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Old 2009-08-13, 12:56   Link #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Actually this might really happen if he teams up with Beato. By the time they've "defeated" the enemy, they've formed such a friendship Battler can't bear to say "Witches' don't exist" in Red unless there's some way she's still around after. Which is probably the "bittersweet" ending I mentioned, because we all really do like Beato.



Spoiler for Higurashi Kai:
No Beato at the end!? I'd rather have the whole family die again! D:<

And yeah I know, I'm glad that the anime added that explanation in. I wanted to know what happened to him. ^^;
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Old 2009-08-13, 13:59   Link #1189
Volcanic
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Now that I think about it, I realize something: even if Meta-Battler wins, what happens to him after?

Will he replace piece-Battler in the Real World? Will his memories be transferred to piece-Battler? (which would probably give piece-Battler a mental breakdown) Or will he just keep on living in the Meta-World?


I'd love for him to go to the Golden Land with Beato...;_;
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Old 2009-08-13, 14:19   Link #1190
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Tbh I don't want Beato to die, that's why I made up a crack theory lol
I'm extremly Anti-Fantasy, although not 100% because of her. She and magic exists, though she can't do very much, like a powerless god. The only thing she can do is repeat the time frame of the game board. As the witch that watches Rokkenjima she saw everyone dieying. She is very hurt that the true culprit tries to make the people think she is the culprit, and as she watched Battler's efforts to prove that it was done by humans, she comes up with an idea: As she isn't allmighty and can't figure out the true culprit by herself, she carefully makes up a plan: Fuel Battler's hate against witches and help him revealing the true culprit. Lambdadelta is interessted in this idea and grants Beato a wish: The creation of the meta-world, where she can interact with Battler and use the red truth. But Lambda of course made a deal: Beato has to restrain her actions and act like a cruel witch towards Battler, be very carefully when using the red truths, being a good actress that listens to her director..
--> the 5th Game, Chiru, Battler discovers the true intentions of the honest and pure Beatrice (which is symbolized by hair-down Beato)

Well, I don't believe in it myself, of course it's dumb so I haven't thought about it further, but I wanted to share it with the BatBeato shippers ;0
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Old 2009-08-13, 15:19   Link #1191
Archer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auria View Post
Tbh I don't want Beato to die, that's why I made up a crack theory lol
I'm extremly Anti-Fantasy, although not 100% because of her. She and magic exists, though she can't do very much, like a powerless god. The only thing she can do is repeat the time frame of the game board. As the witch that watches Rokkenjima she saw everyone dieying. She is very hurt that the true culprit tries to make the people think she is the culprit, and as she watched Battler's efforts to prove that it was done by humans, she comes up with an idea: As she isn't allmighty and can't figure out the true culprit by herself, she carefully makes up a plan: Fuel Battler's hate against witches and help him revealing the true culprit. Lambdadelta is interessted in this idea and grants Beato a wish: The creation of the meta-world, where she can interact with Battler and use the red truth. But Lambda of course made a deal: Beato has to restrain her actions and act like a cruel witch towards Battler, be very carefully when using the red truths, being a good actress that listens to her director..
--> the 5th Game, Chiru, Battler discovers the true intentions of the honest and pure Beatrice (which is symbolized by hair-down Beato)

Well, I don't believe in it myself, of course it's dumb so I haven't thought about it further, but I wanted to share it with the BatBeato shippers ;0
Actually, I've already thought of a way for Beato to exist and witches to not exist, but I'm waiting to see what Ryuukishi has in store for Episode 5 so I can confirm my theories. I'm sure it makes sense, but if it's actually true then it's going to be a huge plot twist for most people (which is why I'm hesitant to really post it at the moment).
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Old 2009-08-13, 15:19   Link #1192
k//eternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Now that I think about it, I realize something: even if Meta-Battler wins, what happens to him after?

Will he replace piece-Battler in the Real World? Will his memories be transferred to piece-Battler? (which would probably give piece-Battler a mental breakdown) Or will he just keep on living in the Meta-World?


I'd love for him to go to the Golden Land with Beato...;_;
He'll probably be separated from piece-Battler forever, like Bernkastel from Rika. I could see meta-Battler and meta-Beato going to the Golden Land together after it's all over, though, if she survives; they did say it takes two to make a universe, yeah?
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Old 2009-08-13, 15:21   Link #1193
vandakiara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auria View Post
Tbh I don't want Beato to die, that's why I made up a crack theory lol
I'm extremly Anti-Fantasy, although not 100% because of her. She and magic exists, though she can't do very much, like a powerless god. The only thing she can do is repeat the time frame of the game board. As the witch that watches Rokkenjima she saw everyone dieying. She is very hurt that the true culprit tries to make the people think she is the culprit, and as she watched Battler's efforts to prove that it was done by humans, she comes up with an idea: As she isn't allmighty and can't figure out the true culprit by herself, she carefully makes up a plan: Fuel Battler's hate against witches and help him revealing the true culprit. Lambdadelta is interessted in this idea and grants Beato a wish: The creation of the meta-world, where she can interact with Battler and use the red truth. But Lambda of course made a deal: Beato has to restrain her actions and act like a cruel witch towards Battler, be very carefully when using the red truths, being a good actress that listens to her director..
--> the 5th Game, Chiru, Battler discovers the true intentions of the honest and pure Beatrice (which is symbolized by hair-down Beato)

Well, I don't believe in it myself, of course it's dumb so I haven't thought about it further, but I wanted to share it with the BatBeato shippers ;0
I don't really think it's dumb and I'd love for it to be that way <3
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Old 2009-08-13, 15:31   Link #1194
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Ugh... that last part sounds... meh.

The way of revealing the mysteries and everything sounds really interesting, but I really don't like when there are STILL mysteries and questions even after the story is over. =/
I think you might be misunderstanding me. He hopes that people will be able to figure out the mysteries, but he won't necessarily do so explicitly. For example, many of the things that happened in the 'Collecting the Kakera" of Matsuribayashi could have been guessed at given the rest of information that we had. Even if he never showed those scenes, avid readers would be able to figure things out. My guess is that it'll be something like this, instead of just a cliffhanger.
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Old 2009-08-13, 16:01   Link #1195
Volcanic
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Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
He'll probably be separated from piece-Battler forever, like Bernkastel from Rika. I could see meta-Battler and meta-Beato going to the Golden Land together after it's all over, though, if she survives; they did say it takes two to make a universe, yeah?
Adam and Eve Plot with Beato and Battler ffft.

Spoiler for Crazy new theory:


...Yes it's insane xDD
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Old 2009-08-13, 16:11   Link #1196
ProdigalSon
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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Actually, I've already thought of a way for Beato to exist and witches to not exist, but I'm waiting to see what Ryuukishi has in store for Episode 5 so I can confirm my theories. I'm sure it makes sense, but if it's actually true then it's going to be a huge plot twist for most people (which is why I'm hesitant to really post it at the moment).

LOL what's the point of being coy in a thread full of spoilers and theories? What makes you think yours is different than the hundred other ones we see in the forum?
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Old 2009-08-13, 16:19   Link #1197
Archer
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Originally Posted by ProdigalSon View Post
LOL what's the point of being coy in a thread full of spoilers and theories? What makes you think yours is different than the hundred other ones we see in the forum?
Because it assumes that magic doesn't exist, period.

Most of the Umineko fandom seem to take the meta-world for granted, since it's not required for the game to question the meta-world. I don't think that's right.

I've been reading what Ryuukishi's been saying at the moment, and I believe that he's purposely avoiding the main issue of "what are witches?" I take it that it's up to the reader to solve this mystery, and that mystery begins with a simple thought process: what is magic? If we believe what we see, we might end up with the Higurashi-style ending.

If we don't, then I see Umineko ending "outside of the meta-world", and in the actual real world, which doesn't allow for the magical or the supernatural. My theory has to do with that. However, most of english-speaking fandom would believe that such a thing isn't possible, and questioning the meta-world's existence doesn't have any reasonable logic or evidence behind it (Most of the attention in the story thus far have been on the gameboards and the meta-world, so we've gotten accustomed to it).
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Old 2009-08-13, 16:36   Link #1198
Volcanic
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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Because it assumes that magic doesn't exist, period.

Most of the Umineko fandom seem to take the meta-world for granted, since it's not required for the game to question the meta-world. I don't think that's right.

I've been reading what Ryuukishi's been saying at the moment, and I believe that he's purposely avoiding the main issue of "what are witches?" I take it that it's up to the reader to solve this mystery, and that mystery begins with a simple thought process: what is magic? If we believe what we see, we might end up with the Higurashi-style ending.

If we don't, then I see Umineko ending "outside of the meta-world", and in the actual real world, which doesn't allow for the magical or the supernatural. My theory has to do with that. However, most of english-speaking fandom would believe that such a thing isn't possible, and questioning the meta-world's existence doesn't have any reasonable logic or evidence behind it (Most of the attention in the story thus far have been on the gameboards and the meta-world, so we've gotten accustomed to it).
Are you saying that the english speaking people aren't open to new theories? Of course we are! That would be very interesting!
I actually had a crack theory about the Meta-World awhile back.

Spoiler for CRACKY CRACK THEORY:


More epic crack xD
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Old 2009-08-13, 17:16   Link #1199
Archer
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Here's what I propose:

Spoiler for Theory:


Although the reasoning is mine, this really isn't an original theory. I heard it was part of a larger scheme called the "Mariage Sorciere" theory, which is used to deny the meta-world.

Last edited by Archer; 2009-08-20 at 19:38.
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Old 2009-08-13, 18:02   Link #1200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Spoiler for Crazy new theory:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Spoiler for CRACKY CRACK THEORY:
I agree, episode 1 is the only real game and at the end of it something happens to Battler.
What happens after that is anyone's guess but I believe all the games will be significant in figuring out how to reach a good end.

Good end for me = everyone receives love/companionship from the ones they care about before they die.
Survival is not necessary if the theme is that love is eternal (endless witch).
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