AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-14, 18:33   Link #1
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Character discussion - Kanon

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Kanon related.
To keep the discussion enjoyable for all Umineko no Naku Koro ni fans, please follow the guidelines below and stay on-topic!


Note: Please don't use this for the specific episode / chapter / game talk, there are other threads for that stuff.

Thread Guidelines
  • No campaigning!
    No "hate" or "xyz must die" posts. Discuss why you do or don't like characters without whining and whining or blatantly campaigning for your favorite.
  • Be polite to your fellow forum members.
    Do not insult or harass other members for their likes and dislikes. Do not take it so seriously that you end up in an argument with another forum member because they express a fondness for a character you loathe. Discussion and good spirited banter is always welcome, but harassing people won't be tolerated.
  • Discuss, not Chat.
    Please remember that AnimeSuki is a discussion forum, not a chat room, there is a difference. If you wish to chat, then please make use of our IRC channel (#animeuki) on ZiRC.
  • Have fun, but post intelligently.
    It's great to have fun, but please try your best to add substance to what you post and make your thoughts interesting for the generation of fans that will follow after you’re long gone and on to watching some other series.
  • As the anime progresses, Please use spoiler tags!VN Spoilers are NOT allowed, except if they are used for comparison sake about events that have been already shown in the anime (or if the timing has been bypassed with no way to be disclosed later on).These must be enclosed in spoiler tags clearly marked with a proper title. Failure to do this can result in a BAN. Also please be sure to use spoiler tags for critical scenes from the Anime series with a proper title (like Episode X-Y) in order to not spoil people who didn't catch up the latest anime episodes yet.
  • Adding a Spoiler tag:
    Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
    on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
    Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
  • Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
    Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
    Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
    to locate and deal with problems quickly.
  • Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
    Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
    The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.
Klashikari is online now  
Old 2009-08-14, 18:38   Link #2
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
Hey, it's the emo kid! *shot*

I really do like Kanon, he's an interesting character, with his weird obsession with being "furniture" and all. His relationship with Jessica is always very interesting too.
Volcanic is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 18:49   Link #3
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
I really do like Kanon, he's an interesting character, with his weird obsession with being "furniture" and all. His relationship with Jessica is always very interesting too.
Yeah but somethin I just noticed after trying to explain a certain friend the reason jessiKanon is canon and not just one-sided...I tried and tried but in the end she was still able to say that Kanon likes Jessi is just my wishful shipping thinking. And while watching the anime I felt a bit...well..it does seem rather one sided or?


About that furniture thing. I still think that he is just saying that to protect himself. He is basically a scared child trying do not let anyone close that's the reason that he is so obsessed. Not because he really thinks so, but because he doesn't want anyone close who could hurt him. You must consider that he is an orphan, the person who he could seem to relate to (Shannon) left when both where 6 year old, we don't know what happened before he became an orphan, it's only natural that he is scared of being hurt. But as "furniture" no one can hurt him, cause no one is close to him and as "furniture" he doesn't have to think about his past, present or future, nor about himself. Everything is easy and in peace. there is no risk of being hurt. For me he is basically the emotional wise most fragile of the cast ('cept Maria she is a special case)


And yes I'm trying to pull of a good discussion
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:13   Link #4
Nifty
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Yeah but somethin I just noticed after trying to explain a certain friend the reason jessiKanon is canon and not just one-sided...I tried and tried but in the end she was still able to say that Kanon likes Jessi is just my wishful shipping thinking. And while watching the anime I felt a bit...well..it does seem rather one sided or?
It probably just seems that way in the anime because...
Spoiler for Cut:


I have little doubts in my mind that Kanon had a rough childhood, whether it was in the orphanage or beforehand, and probably is trying to protect himself from being hurt but also trying to protect others from it--which potentially explains why he rejected Jessica so harshly. If he didn't lock away his emotions so much, he would probably be really sweet and caring.
Basically, to me he's a kuudere.
__________________
Nifty is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:22   Link #5
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
Quote:
Yeah but somethin I just noticed after trying to explain a certain friend the reason jessiKanon is canon and not just one-sided...I tried and tried but in the end she was still able to say that Kanon likes Jessi is just my wishful shipping thinking. And while watching the anime I felt a bit...well..it does seem rather one sided or?
Back in the VN I could tell the main reason that he rejected her was because he was furniture () but the anime made it seem one-sided, yeah.

Quote:
But as "furniture" no one can hurt him
Furniture have SUPER POWERS and can shoot lazars out of their mouths. 8D *shot*

Quote:
About that furniture thing. I still think that he is just saying that to protect himself. He is basically a scared child trying do not let anyone close that's the reason that he is so obsessed. Not because he really thinks so, but because he doesn't want anyone close who could hurt him. You must consider that he is an orphan, the person who he could seem to relate to (Shannon) left when both where 6 year old, we don't know what happened before he became an orphan, it's only natural that he is scared of being hurt. But as "furniture" no one can hurt him, cause no one is close to him and as "furniture" he doesn't have to think about his past, present or future, nor about himself. Everything is easy and in peace. there is no risk of being hurt. For me he is basically the emotional wise most fragile of the cast ('cept Maria she is a special case)


And yes I'm trying to pull of a good discussion
Yeah, I've sorta thought that way too ever since our "source of the emo" conversation on the episode 6 thread.

Not only is Kanon an orphan, but the only person he really feels okay getting close too is Shannon, who left when he was only six, and he was alone for so long knowing that he'd have to work as a butler for his entire life. I don't think seeing Shannon get pushed around when she made a mistake helped either.

As I mentioned on said thread, I kinda like to think the people at the orphanage weren't very nice, and made sure he knew he was furniture. He became obsessed with being furniture because furniture is an inanimate object that has no feelings, or relationships, or any real purpose besides being sat on and, eventually, being thrown away. He just doesn't care; he'll live his life, die, and hope to do better the next time.

His aggressive-ness probably comes from this, as he's got no way to vent his emotions.

He's kinda reminding me of Yuki from Haruhi Suzumiya, who
Spoiler for TMoHS novel 4:


...Wow, we talk about Kanon more than Battler
Volcanic is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:27   Link #6
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Wait what? He admitted? I played that scene two days ago and couldn't recall that but oh well I think Deen is going to cute every scene in which a guy starts crying.

Quote:
I have little doubts in my mind that Kanon had a rough childhood
I don't believe that as well, but I think that the being an orphan is already enough, there is no need for abuse. He lost his parents at such a young age. that must have hurt enough.



I don't really know if he did that to protect others, if he wanted to protect Jessica he wouldn't have it done that way. Think about it. There are other way to reject a girl that was just tactless and hurt her more than protected her, also like the stubborn girl she is she wouldn't give up anyway. Especially sine he got totally emotional in that scene (Deen..-.-) He started screaming at her that he wasn't human and that it was so cruel of her to try shoowing him the blue sky and all that crap. In the anime he came over rather ehm "I will never love you. Go cry in a corner -.-" I don't think he thought about other people except himself while rejecting her.
Quote:
If he didn't lock away his emotions so much, he would probably be really sweet and caring.
I agree with you. If he would act like he actually feels and stuff I think he really would be nice guy. Maybe not the type who smiles all day but just plain nice and caring.

Quote:
kuudere
Okay...I halfheartly agree with that but to be honest it just don't feels right to call him that.

Quote:
He's kinda reminding me of Yuki from Haruhi Suzumiya
Na! No way! Yuki didn't had real feelings in the beginning. He had a lot of them, too much I would say. With his emotionless site he tried to cover those up so he wouldn't get hurt. And then people started to try to get inside that barrier... he gets scared and agressive. basically the behaviour of a child.
Quote:
Wow, we talk about Kanon more than Battler
I like Battler but I don't think you can discuss as mcuh about him as about Kanon
Quote:

As I mentioned on said thread, I kinda like to think the people at the orphanage weren't very nice, and made sure he knew he was furniture. He became obsessed with being furniture because furniture is an inanimate object that has no feelings, or relationships, or any real purpose besides being sat on and, eventually, being thrown away. He just doesn't care
Disagreed, partly. I think the people in the orphanage could have been the nicest person in the world., he still owuld have called himself furniture. and he do care. He cares so much but tries to convince himself that he doesn't cause otherwise he would get hurt. He is protecting himself with that. After loosing someone close he just decided to never let someone come close again.
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara

Last edited by Kitsu; 2009-08-14 at 19:39.
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:54   Link #7
Nifty
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
...Wow, we talk about Kanon more than Battler
Probably because Battler's personality is really straight-forward by comparison.
There's so little we know about Kanon though, so it's rather fun to speculate.

Quote:
I don't really know if he did that to protect others, if he wanted to protect Jessica he wouldn't have it done that way. Think about it. There are other way to reject a girl that was just tactless and hurt her more than protected her, also like the stubborn girl she is she wouldn't give up anyway. Especially sine he got totally emotional in that scene (Deen..-.-) He started screaming at her that he wasn't human and that it was so cruel of her to try shoowing him the blue sky and all that crap. In the anime he came over rather ehm "I will never love you. Go cry in a corner -.-" I don'T think he thought about other people except himself while rejecting her.
Differing opinions I suppose. I definitely won't deny that he was trying not to get hurt himself. I can't shake the feeling that he also considered Jessica and how she would be affected even if it was just a fraction of the reason but he came across as harsh because of his inexperience with people and/or he just outright didn't know how to reject her in a way that didn't hurt her.

Regardless of what he was thinking at the time it can be agreed upon that his furniture mentality, whether it be a true belief or just a front to protect his own frail emotions, screwed him over there.
__________________
Nifty is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:55   Link #8
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
Quote:
Na! No way! Yuki didn't had real feelings in the beginning. He had a lot of them, too much I would say. With his emotionless site he tried to cover those up so he wouldn't get hurt. And then people started to try to get inside that barrier... he gets scared and agressive. basically the behaviour of a child.
That's what I mean by "kinda" xDD
Yeah, Kanon is very overprotective of...well...himself. Well, his emotions, anyway. He won't let anything crack his "I am furniture" demeanor, and really this might end up as his greatest downfall.

Quote:
I like Battler but I don't think you can discuss as mcuh about him as about Kanon
You actually can, but not until we get to that point in the anime, haha.

Quote:
Disagreed, partly. I think the people in the orphanage could have been the nicest person in the world., he still owuld have called himself furniture. and he do care. He cares so much but tries to convince himself that he doesn't cause otherwise he would get hurt. He is protecting himself with that. After loosing someone close he just decided to never let someone come close again.
That's true. Kanon could have had a good life at the orphanage, but was too sad and lonely to really acknowledge it.

What he really needs is a good friend. He has Shannon, but she's becoming more "human" in a sense and they're kinda beginning to drift apart from it.

Maybe he should talk to George, Jessica and Shannon are already good friends

Quote:
Regardless of what he was thinking at the time it can be agreed upon that his furniture mentality, whether it be a true belief or just a front to protect his own frail emotions, screwed him over there.
Yes, very true. He just doesn't really know how to live a different way, I guess. He doesn't really know the meaning of "family" either, besides Shannon, now that I think about it.
Volcanic is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 19:59   Link #9
Fabelyn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brazil
When I saw episode 6, I actually thought there were very subtle hints that he also loved Jessica:

-When Shannon mentions her, just before the school festival scene, he immediately looks interested

-Kanon doesn't actually say he doesn't love Jessica. Sure, saying "furniture can't love ahuman" means almost the same thing, but not quite. To me that phrase made me think he does love her, but he shouldn't.

-When he's screaming at Beatrice, he says she was "giving false hopes to couples who could never be together". Now, if Jessica's love was one-sided, he wouldn't have considered himself and Jessica as a coupe, would he? He would have said something about giving false hopes to people of a love that would never happen.

...at least that's what my fangirl mind saw...


Quote:
I don't really know if he did that to protect others, if he wanted to protect Jessica he wouldn't have it done that way. Think about it. There are other way to reject a girl that was just tactless and hurt her more than protected her, also like the stubborn girl she is she wouldn't give up anyway. Especially sine he got totally emotional in that scene (Deen..-.-) He started screaming at her that he wasn't human and that it was so cruel of her to try shoowing him the blue sky and all that crap. In the anime he came over rather ehm "I will never love you. Go cry in a corner -.-" I don't think he thought about other people except himself while rejecting her.
Kanon really wanted to make Jessica stop loving him, and what's better than to sound cruel and tactless? I mean, when i saw him scream and get angry with her, it just made me think "ok, he loves her, so now all she has t do is prove he isn't furniture". Saying coldly "Furniture can't love a human" is way more efficient.

Quote:
Disagreed, partly. I think the people in the orphanage could have been the nicest person in the world., he still owuld have called himself furniture. and he do care. He cares so much but tries to convince himself that he doesn't cause otherwise he would get hurt. He is protecting himself with that. After loosing someone close he just decided to never let someone come close again.
I disagree a bit with both of you ^^ I think that the way he was treate dat the orphanage+ the way he's treated at Rokkenjima made Kanon believe he was worthless. By considering himself 'furniture' he might be below a normal human being, but at least he is usefull.
__________________
<img src=http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic99661_6.gif border=0 alt= />
Fabelyn is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:04   Link #10
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
Maybe he should talk to George
Oh no, I can see that coming
"Since I'm gonna marry your sister, how about starting to call me "Nii-san" ??"
"I hate you"

Quote:
What he really needs is a good friend. He has Shannon, but she's becoming more "human" in a sense and they're kinda beginning to drift apart from it.
The problem is, he might don't want to have friends. Even friends are close to you and can hurt you pretty badly. I think this is Battler's role in his life. I would bet on it that those two will become pretty good friends in the end.

Quote:
Regardless of what he was thinking at the time it can be agreed upon that his furniture mentality, whether it be a true belief or just a front to protect his own frail emotions, screwed him over there.
Badly. Cause since then,
Quote:
Since Jessica showed him her tears, his heart slowly started to change
or so it says. After seeing all of her emotions he felt bad and stuff her tears moved something. As stated in the talk between him and Shannon.
Oh btw. He never admitted his crush to Shannon in that scene. (just replayed the scene) Only that he wanted to fall in love as well (he talked about true love *giggle*)


Quote:
...at least that's what my fangirl mind saw...
That's the problem, that's why my friend doesn't really believe me. I can argue what I want and all she says is "Yeah, yeah that's what you see" but I bet she's just not accepting that cause we can never agree on a pairing



Owaaah~ okay I did bring out a good discussion^^
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:07   Link #11
Vicious108
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Why does mere furniture get its own topic?

[/bad joke]
Vicious108 is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:10   Link #12
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
Why does mere furniture get its own topic?
Cause we can discuss about him more than about some spoiled rich kids xDDD
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:32   Link #13
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
Quote:
Oh no, I can see that coming
"Since I'm gonna marry your sister, how about starting to call me "Nii-san" ??"
"I hate you"
Well...

Quote:
I think this is Battler's role in his life. I would bet on it that those two will become pretty good friends in the end.
"Hey, since you're marrying my cousin, can you call me Battler-kun instead of Battler-sama?"
"I hate you."

Quote:
(he talked about true love *giggle*)
*fangirl squee*

Quote:
Why does mere furniture get its own topic?
I actually think that's what Kanon would say if he saw this
Volcanic is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:39   Link #14
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
"Hey, since you're marrying my cousin, can you call me Battler-kun instead of Battler-sama?"
"I hate you."
Oh well let's hope that he came over this hate thinking before marrying Jessica. Btw you don't use -kun while talking to older boys. Only while talking to younger ones


Quote:
*fangirl squee*
Well >I thought it was pretty much hilarious...I mean what guy talks about true love?


But we are getting into randomness again, so Nifty where did you actually get the "kanon admits his crush" from

EDIT: Taking it back found it^^ Forgot that there are two times both speak about it
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:44   Link #15
Nifty
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Oh btw. He never admitted his crush to Shannon in that scene. (just replayed the scene) Only that he wanted to fall in love as well (he talked about true love *giggle*)
Spoiler for Cut:


Quote:
I think this is Battler's role in his life. I would bet on it that those two will become pretty good friends in the end.
This I can definitely see. Who knows, they might get a chance to bond in the next few games. Oh, the yaoi community will definitely spring to life there.
__________________
Nifty is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:44   Link #16
Fabelyn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Well >I thought it was pretty much hilarious...I mean what guy talks about true love?
The same type of guy who calls himself furniture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
But we are getting into randomness again, so Nifty where did you actually get the "kanon admits his crush" from
Doesn't he admit it to beatrice just before...
Spoiler for episode 2:


Edit: Nifty just explained it ^^

Quote:
I think this is Battler's role in his life. I would bet on it that those two will become pretty good friends in the end.
Or Kanon would start hating Battler even more for always trying to touch Jessica's breasts XD
__________________
<img src=http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic99661_6.gif border=0 alt= />
Fabelyn is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:50   Link #17
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
Doesn't he admit it to beatrice just before...
Like I said I found it, it#s after Shannon gets engaged. he shouts at her and she tells/asks him why he thinks of himself as funiture and why he has regrets. He starts crying badly and makes "Uuuu" sounds (the reason I'm laughing badly right now) and tells her that

Quote:
I liked Milady! And after seeing Milady on that day, I started liking her even more...! And when I heard that she liked me, I was really happy...! But I'm furniture, ... and I can't accept Milady's feelings.
Then he talks how he thought it would be better to not return her feelings but someday he might disappear and that this would hurt her. What is he talking about, disappear? Does he mean his own death?

But uhm excuse me....what day does Kanon actually mean? He can't mean the school festival cause he already knew that she liked him on that day. SO what does he mean?
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:53   Link #18
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
Quote:
I liked Milady! And after seeing Milady on that day, I started liking her even more...! And when I heard that she liked me, I was really happy...! But I'm furniture, ... and I can't accept Milady's feelings.
Then he talks how he thought it would be better to not return her feelings but someday he might disappear and that this would hurt her.
He really does care~ xD I remember reading that part in the VN and my fangirly heart exploded.

Quote:
He starts crying badly and makes "Uuuu" sounds (the reason I'm laughing badly right now) and tells her that
xDD Uu sounds.
BUT IT'S QUITE SAD OTHERWISE. *gives Kanon Jessica plushie*

Quote:
Well >I thought it was pretty much hilarious...I mean what guy talks about true love?
A guy who REALLY wants true love. And love in general. xD

Quote:
Btw you don't use -kun while talking to older boys. Only while talking to younger ones
Darn!
...Whatever, Battler is Battler, he does not really care xDD
Volcanic is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 20:55   Link #19
Fabelyn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
But uhm excuse me....what day does Kanon actually mean? He can't mean the school festival cause he already knew that she liked him on that day. SO what does he mean?
*eyes sparkle with hope* maybe tere's a jessixkannon scene we have yet to see?
__________________
<img src=http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic99661_6.gif border=0 alt= />
Fabelyn is offline  
Old 2009-08-14, 21:10   Link #20
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
*eyes sparkle with hope* maybe tere's a jessixkannon scene we have yet to see?
I would prefer something future verse but oh well maybe there is maybe there isn't. I mean we have enough of JessKanon background, don't we?

Quote:
He really does care~ xD I remember reading that part in the VN and my fangirly heart exploded.
I just thought "Wrong girl, dude, wrong girl. You should tell that the girl you like not your sister."


But isn't it strange that he didn't even shed a tear seeing his dead sister's body in EP 1 but starts crying like a baby for a "minor" thing in EP 2. always bugged me
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.