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Old 2009-08-16, 06:15   Link #81
TTR
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You know you guys, the way I read this, although it's very hard, is trying to find the kanji myself using the radical system, looking up those kanji, and then remembering the grammer I've learned. It will honestly help you a lot more then just machine translating hooked text (having the game script would be better anyway) if you're planning on learning Japanese in the long run.

For a dictionary I use EDICT, both on WWWJDIC and using JLookUp whenever I'm offline or when I don't wanna fire up firefox. :/
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Old 2009-08-16, 08:24   Link #82
Chris Rosenkreutz
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I've extracted the game script and look at it in Firefox with the Rikaichan extension while playing the game. It doesn't get much lazier than looking up words by mouse over.

My complete lack of vocabulary is barely slowing me down. It's trying to understand the grammar, which I thought I was OK at, that is. I still hope to be better at that than any machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cap View Post
does someone know what's this kanji's meaning?

Spoiler for kanji:
I second this. It appears as 譜面を再現 in discussions about chess. Is it an expression? Or is it just a metaphor that we are supposed to figure out?

Spoiler for Somewhere in EP 1-4:
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Old 2009-08-16, 09:03   Link #83
MeoTwister5
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So far from what I've played Atlas goes between pretty acceptable to verbal massacre.

Take for example a fairly acceptable literal translation:

その寂しげな音色は、吹き抜ける荒涼とした風の音。

"A lonely that tone is a desolate noise of the wind that blows and comes off."

This obviously means that there's a desolate sounding wind blowing through.


Take the following which is more or less understandable:

にぎやかに舞っていた黄金の蝶たちの群は、どこにも見ることが出来ない…。

"The dance cannot lively see crowds of butterflies of the here gold anywhere."

This... probably means that the dancing gold butterflies cannot be seen in the place. I think.


Now look at the event of verbal massacre:

もし、髪型について、ああだこうだと彼女が文句を口にしてくれたなら、

"If she says the complaint of the hairstyle in case of the ha enmity long ages supposing"

I have an inkling of what it means but it's really vague. I'm assuming Virgilia is combing Beato's hair. These three lines are said within a few minutes of each other

----------------


Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-08-16 at 09:52.
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Old 2009-08-16, 09:53   Link #84
milkypink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTR View Post
You know you guys, the way I read this, although it's very hard, is trying to find the kanji myself using the radical system, looking up those kanji, and then remembering the grammer I've learned. It will honestly help you a lot more then just machine translating hooked text (having the game script would be better anyway) if you're planning on learning Japanese in the long run.

For a dictionary I use EDICT, both on WWWJDIC and using JLookUp whenever I'm offline or when I don't wanna fire up firefox. :/
For reference, that's pretty close to what I'm doing - only I'm using AGTH (text hooker, not translator) to let me copy&paste the kanji I don't know into wwwjdic since it becomes really frustrating to have to hand write into my DS every so often
I do have Atlas open, mostly out of curiosity. Sometimes it's on, and sometimes it's waaaay off XD Some strange things have come out of that all right...

I am doing my best to fight the spoiler tags (and avoid 2ch, 4ch, you name it) until I finish.... Has anyone here gotten to the end? I'm just wondering what percentage of people who know various spoilery things have actually gone through the story or just actively hunted down spoilers XD
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Old 2009-08-16, 09:54   Link #85
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I would like people to refrain posting elements if they do not fully understand what is going on in Episode 5.
Providing vague or uncorrect statements will simply be almost as similar as fake spoilers: misleading people, on purpose or not, is absolutely not a service.
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Old 2009-08-16, 09:57   Link #86
MeoTwister5
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Well as I said Atlas does a good enough job with word translating, it's the sentence arrangement and syntax that can get to be a problem. Content wise it's essentially correct, but you need to know how to reinterpret the sentence structure to truly understand the content.

BTW which thread are we allowed to post our progress notes in order to compare interpretations and correct our understanding? Here or the spoilers thread?
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Old 2009-08-16, 09:59   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well as I said Atlas does a good enough job with word translating, it's the sentence arrangement and syntax that can get to be a problem. Content wise it's essentially correct, but you need to know how to reinterpret the sentence structure to truly understand the content.
You are claiming as if the machine translation can be good literally for all words. That's absolutely not the case, more so if you considering various kanji and the like.
If grammar and words placement were just the issue, it wouldn't be a problem, but lots of detail are quite screwed up. And we all know details in umineko can change dramatically a sentence and a situation by itself. Thus, I said uncorrect and "vague" statements.
And I doubt it is anything trustworthy when a machine translation pops "concubine" for a pronoun if you ask me.

Offtopic anyway.
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:08   Link #88
MeoTwister5
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Which is why I'm comparing my notes with other people who are playing so as to correct my own errors and such. Atlas obviously can't translate the essence of a sentence; it can only cough up literal translations that are up to the reader to interpret in his or her own way.

I'm not claiming that the program is accurate enough to be completely trusted. It can only cough up translated meaning and words in its database and we have to take what it coughs up as a whole and interpret their validity. Understanding from prior knowledge and context helps in the matter at the very least, but of course it can't beat a translation by a person who understands the language.

At the very least it gives us the gist of the text to be at least understandable. Anything more is too much to ask of it anyway, which is why I'm also reading other people's interpretations so I don't get led away by the conflicts in meaning.

And I'll drop it at that since it off topic at this point.
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:08   Link #89
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Moving my ongoing summaries over here~ I'll collect them all later, but for now check out the spoiler thread for the missing ones.

Spoiler for Continuing Ep5 Summary:

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-08-18 at 13:33.
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:13   Link #90
MeoTwister5
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Ok I'm done with the prologue. These are what I've understood of the start of Ep5 so if anyone can correct me it would be appreciated.

Spoiler for My Ep5 Prologue Notes. Spoilers of course.:
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:40   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I would like people to refrain posting elements if they do not fully understand what is going on in Episode 5.
Providing vague or uncorrect statements will simply be almost as similar as fake spoilers: misleading people, on purpose or not, is absolutely not a service.
Well, I appreciate what Kamar's doing since I probably won't be going through the hassle of using ATGH and all that. Plus, him putting up a summary, a good one at that, is no different from reading the story with a translator by your own free will-which is what a lot of people are doing. That means everyone's getting half-assed translations until the English patch comes out. So what difference does it make if somebody wants to post a summary?
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:45   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unconfirmed View Post
Well, I appreciate what Kamar's doing since I probably won't be going through the hassle of using ATGH and all that. Plus, him putting up a summary, a good one at that, is no different from reading the story with a translator by your own free will-which is what a lot of people are doing. That means everyone's getting half-assed translations until the English patch comes out. So what difference does it make if somebody wants to post a summary?
Huh no, you misunderstood what I asked: it is all about the comments made on things that they don't understand, it isn't aimed at Kamar.
Furthermore, there are a chore number of readers who are reading without any dictionary and the like (chrono, rias, varion, and probably chounokoe, sterling etc).
Thus, you can expect trustworthy source at some point or another.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but it would be safer for everyone to rely on elements that are void of possible mistakes.
For your instance, I did the same: providing summaries that are pretty much not 100% reliable when Episode 3 was released. So long the idea is understood, a digest summary is fine, so long there aren't any assumption until notified explicitely, which kamar did (implying possible mistakes and parts that he can't understand). That said, I posted this comment preemptively, considering how countless times there were misunderstandings and fake spoilers.
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:49   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unconfirmed View Post
Well, I appreciate what Kamar's doing since I probably won't be going through the hassle of using ATGH and all that. Plus, him putting up a summary, a good one at that, is no different from reading the story with a translator by your own free will-which is what a lot of people are doing. That means everyone's getting half-assed translations until the English patch comes out. So what difference does it make if somebody wants to post a summary?
Klash basically doesn't want a repeat of Ep 4's umbrella spoiler
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:52   Link #94
MeoTwister5
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Well it would be nice if we had their input so I can correct myself and my own understanding of the subject. I'm relying on the dictionary, my meager understanding of the language and mental cross-referencing to Mandarin meanings to understand the text.

So far my notes and Kamar's summaries and nearly identical so it's safe to say we're correct in most of the basic stuff. Obviously we can't be relied upon for the specifics and the critical details.

As I said it would be great if those of us who have a mean to play the game in whatever capability we have of understanding the story would have a place to compare notes and ideas and such so that we can help each other get through the tougher parts.

In the end this will also allow a generally accepted interpretation of the text that would benefit those who want to read the summaries and/or play the untranslated text.

At least it would help me as I am right now.
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Old 2009-08-16, 10:59   Link #95
Sterling01
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Umineko as translated by a computer
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Old 2009-08-16, 11:02   Link #96
MeoTwister5
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Heh. In my Atlas Krauss means Warehouse Mortar. Natsuhi is translated as Princess-in-summer, as Natsu=summer and Hi probably the contraction of Hime. Though I'm almost sure those are correct in a literal sense it's still sort of funny.
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Old 2009-08-16, 11:05   Link #97
Kamar
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Yeah, I keep almost typing names like Warehouse Mortar, princess in summer, jioji, and money warehouse in my summaries.
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Old 2009-08-16, 11:05   Link #98
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"We get stuffing by witch."




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Old 2009-08-16, 11:08   Link #99
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lol i think i will wait for the patch was it kinzo that was translated to money warehouse?
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Old 2009-08-16, 11:10   Link #100
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystearika View Post
lol i think i will wait for the patch was it kinzo that was translated to money warehouse?
Lol yeah. I sort of figured it out the moment it got mentioned, Krauss was WTF to me, while Natsuhi's took me a while to remember the root words of her name (Natsu+Hi[me]).
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