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Old 2009-08-17, 00:13   Link #1
Cipher
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Red face What is Taste?

How do People tell whether a song is well rhythmic and well sounding and not? What shapes taste? Only Society and Behavioral Natural Patterns? Is there no presence of individuality?
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Old 2009-08-17, 00:20   Link #2
Alchemist007
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People? Forget that, I go on personal taste alone. And that's whatever sounds good to me. On a more technical note I heard that musical perception is the result of a 'borrowing' of brain functions including language and something else.
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Old 2009-08-17, 00:27   Link #3
Raiga
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The way I see it, with trying to distinguish individuality from societal influences... it's not really possible. If you were born into a world devoid of any sensory input whatsoever, who would you be? We can only find the boundaries of our own identity through interaction with others and the world around us. What defines yourself and what you like and don't like is both the environment around you, and the elements of that environment which you choose to assimilate and those you choose to reject.

So the way I see it, say for example there's this song you like. Do you seriously like it yourself, or do you seem to like it just because all of your friends like it? Is there a difference? If you're going to say it's the latter case, then I say that you like being accepted by your friends, the song is a sign of acceptance by your friends, therefore you like the song. Because (in a sense) that's just as much a property of the song as is its beat, melody, and lyrics. They're all reasons to like the song. Which reasons you give the most weight to is a matter of your own preference. And perhaps your own preference was shaped by societal influences but in my opinion, however far back you draw out this chain of influences, it was still you who decided to accept that particular idea out of the millions of ideas we're all exposed to throughout our lives. But you can't separate the individual from the environment.

I'm not sure if that answers your question... just my 2 cents. ^^;;
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Old 2009-08-17, 00:28   Link #4
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
People? Forget that, I go on personal taste alone. And that's whatever sounds good to me.
But what shapes your so-called "personal" taste?

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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
On a more technical note I heard that musical perception is the result of a 'borrowing' of brain functions including language and something else.
Borrowing from whom? Parents?
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Old 2009-08-17, 00:34   Link #5
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Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
The way I see it, with trying to distinguish individuality from societal influences... it's not really possible. If you were born into a world devoid of any sensory input whatsoever, who would you be? We can only find the boundaries of our own identity through interaction with others and the world around us. What defines yourself and what you like and don't like is both the environment around you, and the elements of that environment which you choose to assimilate and those you choose to reject.
So theoretically(yours) people who experiences the same environments and experiences would have identical tastes and personalities. I thought personalities were also genetically inherited .

Quote:
So the way I see it, say for example there's this song you like. Do you seriously like it yourself, or do you seem to like it just because all of your friends like it? Is there a difference? If you're going to say it's the latter case, then I say that you like being accepted by your friends, the song is a sign of acceptance by your friends, therefore you like the song. Because (in a sense) that's just as much a property of the song as is its beat, melody, and lyrics. They're all reasons to like the song.
So who's taste brought the first song? or the first genre of the song? It's created by an individual right?
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Old 2009-08-17, 00:47   Link #6
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
So who's taste brought the first song? or the first genre of the song? It's created by an individual right?
Is it created by an individual? Possibly. It depends on how you define individuality within the context of a society. Specifically, it is possible that an individual entity will notice the lack of a specific product, and consequently "create" a product to fill the niche that the "creator" has found. Or, more simply, the product could just reflects the times and the groups responses to certain stimuli (ala the punk movement and the music that evolved from the predominantly fashion and drug based movement).

In the end, though, much like any art form, "taste" is purely a matter of personal criticism. You can dislike something, even if it is popular, for specific reasons (based on known technical or non-technical criteria known only to you); or you could greatly like something, even if it is hated by the majority again for various reasons (again, based on known technical or non-technical criteria known only to you).

Then again, you can take the cynical viewpoint, in which case the majority/society always creates an "average" product, and a few bellwethers come along once in awhile to minutely change things.
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Old 2009-08-17, 01:08   Link #7
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Is it created by an individual? Possibly. It depends on how you define individuality within the context of a society. Specifically, it is possible that an individual entity will notice the lack of a specific product, and consequently "create" a product to fill the niche that the "creator" has found.
So you're saying a person just feels like something is missing when, in fact, its not actually missing. It's almost like you're saying this world has a blueprint installed.

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Or, more simply, the product could just reflects the times and the groups responses to certain stimuli (ala the punk movement and the music that evolved from the predominantly fashion and drug based movement).
I don't believe its that simple. Yes it may help form the innovation but it will entirely depend on the "creator's" own way of thinking. Without the knowledge of music's existence, music is never necessary.

Quote:
In the end, though, much like any art form, "taste" is purely a matter of personal criticism. You can dislike something, even if it is popular, for specific reasons (based on known technical or non-technical criteria known only to you); or you could greatly like something, even if it is hated by the majority again for various reasons (again, based on known technical or non-technical criteria known only to you).

Then again, you can take the cynical viewpoint, in which case the majority/society always creates an "average" product, and a few bellwethers come along once in awhile to minutely change things.
Our tastes are affected by outside factors I agree but what about our own thought of creation of idea?
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Old 2009-08-17, 01:27   Link #8
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Ok, taste. Nice issue to think about. Taste that desides if you like something or not.

First of all, you must have variety. In the old days, every country had its own form of music and there were no music cds or television to know that there are more than one kind of music. So, no option to choose from there. In fact, autocratic and conservative societies leave room for no taste at all. They simply demand everyone to like the same stuff. Hey, it is hard not to be made fun of for a uncommon taste in a liberated society. Imagine how harder it would be in a stuck up society where change is concidered evil.

Beyond that, taste has to do with identification. Every kind of music talks to different kinds of people or involves different emotional swings. Thus, you like opera when you feel like you want to hear lyric poetry or you like death metal when you like to burst your negative feelings for the world, etc. So, you like the type of music that you feel it is an extention of your feelings and ideas.

Also, taste has to do with rejection. Sometimes you don't like something, simply because someone you hate likes it. Usually young people identify old kinds of music with their stuck up parents and teachers and don't like that music because their hated people liked it.

Working in reverse, taste has to do with what your friends like. You feel part of the team by liking what they like. This is actually indirectly forceful psychology but it works for most people. Most people prefer to like music their company likes instead of music only they like that could alienate them from the rest.
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Old 2009-08-17, 01:41   Link #9
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Beyond that, taste has to do with identification. Every kind of music talks to different kinds of people or involves different emotional swings. Thus, you like opera when you feel like you want to hear lyric poetry or you like death metal when you like to burst your negative feelings for the world, etc. So, you like the type of music that you feel it is an extention of your feelings and ideas.
In a non-emotional sense, Music doesn't mean anything unless you take it literally. It's just a mix of sounds confounded together to form a longer type of sound. People associate it with emotions because in society that's how they're generally are. You might think I'm weird for listening to Death or Heavy metal when I'm happy and Rap when I'm sad. though I'm more concerned with its origins than its situation. Like in Music, Preference of taste with food varies and how and why they vary depends on society and the natural tendency brought by genetics. It seems like everything in this world can be computed.

It's very awkward how I'm concerned with aesthetics considering how insignificant it is to me. Where does it originate from, taste that is?

Last edited by Cipher; 2009-08-17 at 02:03.
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Old 2009-08-17, 05:46   Link #10
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I think Taste is very personal, and sometimes nothing forges it. Maybe subcultures forge it, but sometimes, you just born with it. Like with me, for example, for 14 years there were very little songs I ever loved; people thought I'm just so tasteless that I don't like music at all. Then when I discovered Japanese music along with anime, at the moment I felt that I not just like Japanese music, but it is normal for me to love it. Like if I was always listening to that in my whole life.
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Old 2009-08-17, 05:55   Link #11
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Something that worth to consider in the matter: to people like me, a song sounds eventually better and better as i heard more of them. There is also a problem: when i heard a song way too many times , my brain start to move focusing away from it everytime i hear it again (sometime I was like "heh, has God Knows being played for the past 2 minutes")
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Old 2009-08-17, 06:24   Link #12
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Let me try: Having taste means being able and willing choose an individual, non-random sample on non-rational grounds, out of a larger assortment that is offered to you.

More interesting would be how to define good taste and bad taste.
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Old 2009-08-17, 07:03   Link #13
calorie
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An interesting question; though it was posed in relation to songs and other types of art, in my opinion the answer extends a lot further. Certainly, it would be foolish to think people have no choice in what preferences in fashion, music, books etc. they will develop. Now I'm not completely sure how big of a role the genetics plays here with personality traits that could possibly be transferred from one generation to another, but there has to be some of that as well.

To ask this is probably the same as to ask what makes us who we are and do we have a choice in the matter at all. Those who are religious will likely think that we both do and don't - as in, every human being's physical and mental characteristics are bestowed by God for a divine plan but how we direct ourselves is up to us; a different viewpoint would be that we are born as 'tabula rasa', a blank piece of paper that is filled based on our social interactions, events that have occurred in our lifetime and choices we have made - both thoughtful and those more random. The question that I've been asking myself here is whether those 'thoughtful' actions and responsibility for them can be attributed to an individual at all if his character is simply a consequence of all the things that have happened to us since our birth. So for example, if I define myself as tolerant, it's because my parents taught me that way and the current situation in modern society allowed it; also because I haven't had any ill experiences in my life that would make me frustrated and intolerant, and because someone had to teach my parents as individuals that being tolerant is a good thing (society as a whole had to learn that as well) and that is because there were wars and injustice in the past that made humanity realize that, and those wars were fought for resources which are good because they make your life more comfortable ... ... ... which some prehistoric ancestor first realized when he killed his fellow cave-dweller and got the meat that was previously hunted by him, though he was reluctant to give it away ... ... ... the reason why they had no meat in abundance was because at that time, the not-so-intelligent humans weren't exactly top predators ... ... ... finally, the reason for that may be a random jumble in some ancient form of single-celled creature that has branched into our species long after and that happened by pure chance.

So my answer would be we probably don't have much say in the matter the more deeply we decide to dig for reasons what makes our taste. Though, whether two songs of the same genre are equally as good isn't the same, I think I've read/watched a documentary how the sense of rhythm is more rooted in human genetic code.
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Old 2009-08-17, 10:45   Link #14
Raiga
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So theoretically(yours) people who experiences the same environments and experiences would have identical tastes and personalities. I thought personalities were also genetically inherited .
I didn't say that. Reread my last sentence.
Quote:
What defines yourself and what you like and don't like is both the environment around you, and the elements of that environment which you choose to assimilate and those you choose to reject.
I say neither that personalities are genetically inherited nor that they are 100% the product of environmental conditioning. I say that personality is produced by a genetically predisposed mind choosing to react in certain ways to environmental stimuli.

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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
So who's taste brought the first song? or the first genre of the song? It's created by an individual right?
Art is derived from somebody's personal experiences. Just because you're describing a time when songs didn't exist, doesn't mean that love didn't exist, pain or joy didn't exist, trees and animals and nature didn't exist.

My whole point of view on this thing is that the individual doesn't have anything until he or she is exposed to environmental influences. Any kind of environmental influences. Because without some sort of context, what is an individual?
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Old 2009-08-17, 12:28   Link #15
npcomplete
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Differences in taste..
actually when I was a kid I didn't like coffee either. Now I can't live without it.

I'm curious about how other people's tastes or preferences have changed. Have you acquired any new tastes?

Last edited by npcomplete; 2009-08-17 at 12:38.
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