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Old 2009-08-19, 03:39   Link #21
Kafriel
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I don't remember any character in any series with a dual wield.
There's also Hisagi with the dual chains/cleavers.
Quote:
Did you forget Alucard?
And Train Heartnet from Black Cat

Do gloves count as a dual weapon?
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Old 2009-08-19, 04:18   Link #22
willyvereb
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
A one hand weapon can easily become a two handed weapon. Zaraki in Bleach had the epiphany to hold it with both hands and double his power. It ony took him a century to think about it, lol.

In the 3rd version of D&D, you could hold any one hand weapon with both hands for some extra damage. The opposite though is not possible without some weird exotic feat.

In Bleach again, two captains have a bankai that turns their one sword into two dual blades. I assume they are amfidexterous (if you can assume ghosts have an off hand or if the series makes any sense at all).

I don't remember any character in any series with a dual wield.
That's still an one handed weapon. Two handed weapons are so heavy/large they must wield with both hands to be effective.
The two hand use is just one of the few possible variations to use a single one-handed sword and it's part of my technique argument. If you're a little bit ambidexterous then you can even switch hands to swing in a way difficult with the hand you're holding the sword.
So in general there's so much ways to use a single one-handed sword then in the end the only thing matters which techinque are you using and how well.
And there's plenty of characters with dual wield. Just to mention some recent(206 at most anime)
-Amagai Shuuske(Bleach filler)
-Archer(FSN)
- Emiya Shirou(FSN...copying Archer's style)
-Setsuna F. Seiei: Exia and 00 Gundam(Gundam 00)
-Sakuraba Kazukiual Briefcases(Ga-Rei Zero)
-Tsumura Tokiko(Bushou Renkin)
-Date Masamune:He wields 10 katanas in two hands(Sangoku Basara)
-Sanada Yukimura:dual spears!(Sengoku Basara)
-Oboro(Utawarerumono)

Not to mention the swarm of dual wielding gunfighters.
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Old 2009-08-19, 15:15   Link #23
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Well, I know that feeling, it is really kinda dissappointing when the main hero in an action anime didn't use some "cool heavy weapon". But, as a fan of "realistic" action anime, and as just everyone has said. I'd strife for realism. Even tough a heavy machine guns and/or long katana is cool and "more destructive", if it's impractical to use, I'd rather not see the "hero" using it. It just make him/her looks like a fool.

Well... I'm actually saying this while I'm still trying to down that nasty IL-2 with Ju87G's dual 37mm cannon, rather than Bf109's 20mm, just because that cannon looks helluva cool, altough I very rarely making hits. If you know what I mean...
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Last edited by Furuno; 2009-08-19 at 16:51. Reason: Oops, typo...
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Old 2009-08-19, 15:20   Link #24
Hs Vi Germania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
There's also Hisagi with the dual chains/cleavers.

And Train Heartnet from Black Cat

Do gloves count as a dual weapon?
Black has only one weapon, sorry.

Hm Revy, Dante, ...


I guess, one strong weapon is just a way cooler than two middle-class weapons without great strength. ^^
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Old 2009-08-19, 18:31   Link #25
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I like Lloyd Irvings logic in dual wielding: "If one sword has a atk power of 100, than with two swords it'll be twice as strong"

lol pure genius
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Old 2009-08-19, 18:35   Link #26
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Im going to agree with what most people are saying, and that is if your dual wielding its not only harder to use, it really adds no benefit if its the same weapon. If you pairing two different types of weapons, sword and dagger or sword and shield, then one will be defensive which makes the character appears weak.

However i believe the biggest point was already made by Kafriel in that most characters take a lot of pride or special attachment to a weapon. Having two makes that quite difficult. The weapon is no longer special or unique.

I personally really like a weapon that is only really designed to be dual wielded, the Katar. However i still cant ignore the mystical allure of a longsword. (I know this is an anime board, but i like it better than a katana, but that's a different thread)
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Old 2009-08-19, 19:33   Link #27
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Originally Posted by SeedFreedom View Post
Im going to agree with what most people are saying, and that is if your dual wielding its not only harder to use, it really adds no benefit if its the same weapon. If you pairing two different types of weapons, sword and dagger or sword and shield, then one will be defensive which makes the character appears weak.
I know that this thread is speaking in the context of anime which is without boundaries, but I do want to point some things in the context of reality and logic...

Duel-wielding does have it's benefits, but it's not a universal thing; It depends on what weapon is being utilized...

Swords in general when used as a pair don't always have to be both used for just offense or defense, as one can be utilized for offense/counter while the other can be utilized for defense/parry...

The Chinese hook sword is a weapon designed to be used as a pair which can be used to simultaneously parry or block an attack and still quickly follow up with a counter-attack, the specific design that could also be used to disable or remove an enemy's weapons from their hands or linked together for a longer-range attack...

Light swords like the ever-famous daisho pair of katana and wakizashi could be applied to the same simultaneous parry/defense technique followed up with a counter-attack...In either case, duel-wielding such swords gives the user a greater range of attacks to use, depending on the fighting style...It's easier to evade one weapon but not so easy to evade two weapons, especially since you sacrifice strength to gain speed in this method...

Of course, like I said, it depends on the weapon...You can get a benefit from duel-wielding a daisho or hook swords but there is no benefit from duel-wielding claymores or naginata because of their large size, obviously...But where practically applied, there are benefits...

I also think using a shield doesn't make a character look weak; I instead think it makes them efficient...Shields give defensive capabilities, yes, but it makes for a great offensive setup; The shield is used to defend against an incoming attack while the user follows up with an attack with the offensive weapon, repeat until the enemy is dead...Blunt-force trauma also works...

I'm sure we've all seen 300; The main Spartan setup of the shield and spear is what made them such a deadly force...On top of being a defensive force, it also holds a lot of offensive force when used as a bludgeoning weapon...Is killing efficiency a groundwork for calling a character weak? Vikings also used the long sword in conjunction with a shield...Scottish highlanders, William Wallace especially, were known for the targe and dirk combination, with most targes often fixed with a boss which was used to affix a spike in the middle of the targe...Does that make them weak?

I know that this thread is supposed to be in the context of anime and not real life, but logic does work when you use it, and I just wanted to put this out; If it works in real life, then it works even better in anime...
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Old 2009-08-19, 20:03   Link #28
SeedFreedom
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Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post
I know that this thread is speaking in the context of anime which is without boundaries, but I do want to point some things in the context of reality and logic...

Duel-wielding does have it's benefits, but it's not a universal thing; It depends on what weapon is being utilized...

Swords in general when used as a pair don't always have to be both used for just offense or defense, as one can be utilized for offense/counter while the other can be utilized for defense/parry...

The Chinese hook sword is a weapon designed to be used as a pair which can be used to simultaneously parry or block an attack and still quickly follow up with a counter-attack, the specific design that could also be used to disable or remove an enemy's weapons from their hands or linked together for a longer-range attack...

Light swords like the ever-famous daisho pair of katana and wakizashi could be applied to the same simultaneous parry/defense technique followed up with a counter-attack...In either case, duel-wielding such swords gives the user a greater range of attacks to use, depending on the fighting style...It's easier to evade one weapon but not so easy to evade two weapons, especially since you sacrifice strength to gain speed in this method...

Of course, like I said, it depends on the weapon...You can get a benefit from duel-wielding a daisho or hook swords but there is no benefit from duel-wielding claymores or naginata because of their large size, obviously...But where practically applied, there are benefits...

I also think using a shield doesn't make a character look weak; I instead think it makes them efficient...Shields give defensive capabilities, yes, but it makes for a great offensive setup; The shield is used to defend against an incoming attack while the user follows up with an attack with the offensive weapon, repeat until the enemy is dead...Blunt-force trauma also works...

I'm sure we've all seen 300; The main Spartan setup of the shield and spear is what made them such a deadly force...On top of being a defensive force, it also holds a lot of offensive force when used as a bludgeoning weapon...Is killing efficiency a groundwork for calling a character weak? Vikings also used the long sword in conjunction with a shield...Scottish highlanders, William Wallace especially, were known for the targe and dirk combination, with most targes often fixed with a boss which was used to affix a spike in the middle of the targe...Does that make them weak?

I know that this thread is supposed to be in the context of anime and not real life, but logic does work when you use it, and I just wanted to put this out; If it works in real life, then it works even better in anime...

Since this was a direct response to my post, i'll reply. I agree the Chinese hook sword (or twin hooks) are a pair of equal blades designed to be used as a dual wield weapon, but until Spike TV aired deadliest warrior i never heard of them and i'm pretty sure a majority of people here have never heard of them either. I also threw out one of my favorite, if not lesser known, weapons the katar as a weapon designed to be dual wielded.

When i mentioned the use of two different weapons with one being defensive, i nowhere said it HAD to be a shield. the European sword/main-gauche combo had mainly the dagger as a defensive weapon with the arming sword as the main attacking weapon. The japanese wakizashi/katana pair used the wakizashi as a mainly defensive when paired with the larger katana. the targe, while having a very damaging spike at its center, is still a shield.

Now, while i agree some shields when used properly can add offensive capability, they are mostly seen as a defensive weapon, which can make someone appear weaker, even if you dont agree. In the realm of high action modern entertainment, there is little room for a weapon not designed to cut you ten ways from sunday. It adds to a sense of manlyness and toughness to have no way out, only forward.
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Old 2009-08-19, 20:17   Link #29
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Well if you're talking about entertainment, then you're getting into the land of subjective opinions...I was just pointing out the combat logic...

I guess the difference in how we read this thread is like a Roman Legionnaire talking to a Gladiator...
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Old 2009-08-20, 00:10   Link #30
willyvereb
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Originally Posted by SeedFreedom View Post
Since this was a direct response to my post, i'll reply. I agree the Chinese hook sword (or twin hooks) are a pair of equal blades designed to be used as a dual wield weapon, but until Spike TV aired deadliest warrior i never heard of them and i'm pretty sure a majority of people here have never heard of them either. I also threw out one of my favorite, if not lesser known, weapons the katar as a weapon designed to be dual wielded.

When i mentioned the use of two different weapons with one being defensive, i nowhere said it HAD to be a shield. the European sword/main-gauche combo had mainly the dagger as a defensive weapon with the arming sword as the main attacking weapon. The japanese wakizashi/katana pair used the wakizashi as a mainly defensive when paired with the larger katana. the targe, while having a very damaging spike at its center, is still a shield.

Now, while i agree some shields when used properly can add offensive capability, they are mostly seen as a defensive weapon, which can make someone appear weaker, even if you dont agree. In the realm of high action modern entertainment, there is little room for a weapon not designed to cut you ten ways from sunday. It adds to a sense of manlyness and toughness to have no way out, only forward.
No...they don't look weaker. It's only depends on the method of presentation. Someone holding out swarms of attackers by just pushing them with his Shield is not even close to being weak. As somone posted before me all it needs the effiencity. If the protagonist can use shiled and sword or dual swords effectively with nice movements it's as good as the single sword. The problem is the "samurai hype". Holdiing a katana represents samuraidom in general while using a sword and a shield is the way of a common infantry from the middle ages Europe. So dozen of kind common warriors or a certain legendary warrior class? Of course the later is more popular and by the pure connection between the character and that class(Samurais) making it a bit more popular. Not to mention they have much more material about the fighting style of the samurai then a skillful fighting of a sword and shield armed soldier.
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Old 2009-08-20, 13:25   Link #31
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Let's not forget about Kyuuzo from Samurai 7. He certainly fits the "non-heroic character" model, since he started out working for the bad guys and only switched sides because of his "The only one allowed to defeat you" rivalry with Kambei.
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