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Old 2009-08-15, 12:31   Link #61
zato_1one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem View Post
I forget if this was in the anime, but just in case I'll spoiler tag it for people who want to keep the novel and anime separate.
Spoiler for things left out in the Hitagi Crab arc:
Are those words also censored in novel? If not,I would like to know what she actually said.
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Old 2009-08-15, 12:41   Link #62
ickem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Are those words also censored in novel? If not,I would like to know what she actually said.
Yeah, it's censored in the novel.
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Old 2009-08-15, 14:39   Link #63
Raiga
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Kind of a random thought, but someone should make a MAD with clips of Senjougahara set to "My Love is a Stapler" from K-On!
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Old 2009-08-15, 18:30   Link #64
Miyuki-ism
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I was JUST thinking that, that song could fit.
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Old 2009-08-16, 01:58   Link #65
Semantics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Kind of a random thought, but someone should make a MAD with clips of Senjougahara set to "My Love is a Stapler" from K-On!
And don't forget about the "Fudepen ~Ballpen~" song as well, after what happened in episode 6.
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Old 2009-08-16, 03:11   Link #66
Ice Block
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Kind of a random thought, but someone should make a MAD with clips of Senjougahara set to "My Love is a Stapler" from K-On!
Found one on nico. Quick and to the point.
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Old 2009-08-17, 02:18   Link #67
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Perfect how both songs fit her. I love her character and especially her development on her quest to becoming normal again. (Though I prefer her raging and violent jealousy since its hilarious)
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Old 2009-08-17, 02:28   Link #68
Miyuki-ism
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I enjoyed her conversation with Koyomi about how she would kill him.

Is...is Senjougahara a parody of this character, because they look almost the same.
Maybe not, but they do look similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk_X1Z_fg34
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Last edited by Miyuki-ism; 2009-08-18 at 11:29.
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Old 2009-08-19, 03:42   Link #69
dave1992
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People seems to be confused about what kind of dere is Hitagi.

Let's call her Hitagidere, due to her uniqueness, lol...
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Old 2009-08-19, 04:46   Link #70
fish eric
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
So in short you are a glutton for pain
Wow!

I wouldnt get within 10ft of Senjogahara. If you come home and you girl can smell another woman on you it means trouble.

Senjogahara to me is like a jelly fish. They are extremely beautiful, but get to close and you either get injured or killed.

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Last edited by fish eric; 2009-08-19 at 05:07.
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Old 2009-08-19, 05:56   Link #71
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I've never quite understood why many of my fellow anime fans tend to want to classify characters based on a particular personality type. It's like they're somehow less of a character if they go with out a label attached to them.

I can understand the quick application of such personality type labels to somebody clear-cut, like Shana. Shana is obviously a tsundere; in fact, she probably represents the tsundere personality type as well as any anime character has since Akane Tendo. In my mind, when a modern character is labeled a tsundere, they risk getting put into Shana's shadow... unless they're as perfectly tsundere as she is.

With a truly unique character like Hitagi, I personally think it's better to simply enjoy the breath of fresh air that is a character that isn't easily labeled.

I frequently think that TV Tropes and the like has corrupted our approach to fictional characters; always trying to compartmentalize them, label them, categorize them, and measure them by what came before. Sometimes it's better to simply take a character on his, her, or it's own merits. That's definitely the case with Hitagi, in my opinion.

I doubt that my post here will be well-received, but I felt compelled to write it anyway, since for me, much of the charm of this anime anyway, is how unique most of the characters are. Even Araragi is a bit different from the norm - I see elements personality characteristics in him that are as different from one another as Kyon is from Light Yagami.
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Old 2009-08-19, 08:23   Link #72
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've never quite understood why many of my fellow anime fans tend to want to classify characters based on a particular personality type. It's like they're somehow less of a character if they go with out a label attached to them.

I can understand the quick application of such personality type labels to somebody clear-cut, like Shana. Shana is obviously a tsundere; in fact, she probably represents the tsundere personality type as well as any anime character has since Akane Tendo. In my mind, when a modern character is labeled a tsundere, they risk getting put into Shana's shadow... unless they're as perfectly tsundere as she is.

With a truly unique character like Hitagi, I personally think it's better to simply enjoy the breath of fresh air that is a character that isn't easily labeled.

I frequently think that TV Tropes and the like has corrupted our approach to fictional characters; always trying to compartmentalize them, label them, categorize them, and measure them by what came before. Sometimes it's better to simply take a character on his, her, or it's own merits. That's definitely the case with Hitagi, in my opinion.

I doubt that my post here will be well-received, but I felt compelled to write it anyway, since for me, much of the charm of this anime anyway, is how unique most of the characters are. Even Araragi is a bit different from the norm - I see elements personality characteristics in him that are as different from one another as Kyon is from Light Yagami.
Agree..................
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Old 2009-08-19, 08:23   Link #73
Ice Block
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Once upon a time, there were only n characters. At that time, each one of them was given the honor of being called unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Shana is obviously a tsundere; in fact, she probably represents the tsundere personality type as well as any anime character has since Akane Tendo. In my mind, when a modern character is labeled a tsundere, they risk getting put into Shana's shadow... unless they're as perfectly tsundere as she is.
Shana is NOT representative of all tsunderes. In fact, if you're familiar with Shiraishi's speech in Lucky Channel, you'd know that she only represents half of the tsundere population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
they're somehow less of a character if they go with out a label attached to them.
The opposite is true, actually. The harder it is to match a character to a certain archtype, the deeper and more complex her characterization becomes/appears. There has never been an instance where an uncatergorizable character is seen as bad or shallow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've never quite understood why many of my fellow anime fans tend to want to classify characters based on a particular personality type.
Think of it as Fictional Behavioral Taxonomy. It allows for a quick summary of one's general traits (usually for introduction purposes) and makes interseries comparisons (between similar characters) easier. Here, the archtypes themselves are the representative specimens (control), whose behavioural patterns have already been mapped out. Characters of the same archtype are compared based on how much they diverge or adhere to these patterns.

Also, note that archtyping became more pronounced with the rise of the moe sub-genre. Have you heard of SaiMoe? Have you ever followed one before?

----------

On that note, we'd need a SaiTore, with Hitagi being the only competitor. Senjougahara Fascination ftw!
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Old 2009-08-19, 09:35   Link #74
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Once upon a time, there were only n characters. At that time, each one of them was given the honor of being called unique.
True. That's not the case today, though, of course.


Quote:

Shana is NOT representative of all tsunderes. In fact, if you're familiar with Shiraishi's speech in Lucky Channel, you'd know that she only represents half of the tsundere population.
I'm aware (I think) of the evolution of the tsundere term. It's fair to say that the oldest definition for tsundere is one that Shana doesn't fit (at least not yet).

Quote:
The opposite is true, actually. The harder it is to match a character to a certain archtype, the deeper and more complex her characterization becomes/appears. There has never been an instance where an uncatergorizable character is seen as bad or shallow.
Oh, I agree completely. That's the main point I was trying to make. Hitagi's complexity makes it admirably hard to give her an archtype, and that's something to like about the character.

Quote:

Think of it as Fictional Behavioral Taxonomy. It allows for a quick summary of one's general traits (usually for introduction purposes) and makes interseries comparisons (between similar characters) easier. Here, the archtypes themselves are the representative specimens (control), whose behavioural patterns have already been mapped out. Characters of the same archtype are compared based on how much they diverge or adhere to these patterns.
I see your point here, but I don't know if the cost is worth it, at least in the case of the tsundere designation as its used today. My own view is that once a character is labeled a tsundere, they're put into a very wide category, and hence become, frankly, a dime a dozen character (unless they're like Shana - the ideal representation of the archtype, or a good chunk of it).

I have less of an issue with, say, Yamato Nadeshiko, since this archtpye label is applied pretty judiciously, with only a couple possible exceptions that I can think of. But I find, personally, that people are very eager to throw the term tsundere at someone, and I think it undermines both the uniqueness of some characters, as well as the descriptive worth of the term itself.


Quote:

Also, note that archtyping became more pronounced with the rise of the moe sub-genre. Have you heard of SaiMoe? Have you ever followed one before?

----------

On that note, we'd need a SaiTore, with Hitagi being the only competitor. Senjougahara Fascination ftw!
No, I'm not familiar with SaiMoe or SaiTore. I guess that's a notch or two above my current anime knowledge. I'll look into it though. Thanks for the info.
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Old 2009-08-19, 09:44   Link #75
Pachael
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Put it this way, we tend to like to categorise things - hey what's this, 'tags'.

Tag added.
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Old 2009-08-19, 10:00   Link #76
rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Think of it as Fictional Behavioral Taxonomy. It allows for a quick summary of one's general traits (usually for introduction purposes) and makes interseries comparisons (between similar characters) easier. Here, the archtypes themselves are the representative specimens (control), whose behavioural patterns have already been mapped out. Characters of the same archtype are compared based on how much they diverge or adhere to these patterns.
I was under the impression that traditional Japanese dramatic arts heavily utilized character types (or archetypes if you will) as an accepted storytelling device to reduce the time and creative burden of 'demonstrative' characterization. That time and energy can be spent investing in other story aspects such as mood and atmosphere, message, plot, etc.

If true, that would help make Japanese audiences more receptive or even demanding of such techniques. However regardless of the cultural acceptance, One can see the same benefits being taken advantage of in the context of a modern anime production company which is always strapped for time and money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Also, note that archtyping became more pronounced with the rise of the moe sub-genre. Have you heard of SaiMoe? Have you ever followed one before?
This seems like an almost inevitable consequence of the success of that kind of harem/'pick your own girl' game and story type. I mean if the appeal is to varied interests (dare I say fetishes?), then you'll maximize appeal by increasing the number of girls. Using simple 'types' as the basis of characters lets you maximize the number of girls introduced for any given show or game (I believe the measure is in new girls per linear meter of film: g/m - clearly an archaic measure derived from before anime production was digitized).
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:50   Link #77
Velsy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've never quite understood why many of my fellow anime fans tend to want to classify characters based on a particular personality type. It's like they're somehow less of a character if they go with out a label attached to them.

I can understand the quick application of such personality type labels to somebody clear-cut, like Shana. Shana is obviously a tsundere; in fact, she probably represents the tsundere personality type as well as any anime character has since Akane Tendo. In my mind, when a modern character is labeled a tsundere, they risk getting put into Shana's shadow... unless they're as perfectly tsundere as she is.

With a truly unique character like Hitagi, I personally think it's better to simply enjoy the breath of fresh air that is a character that isn't easily labeled.

I frequently think that TV Tropes and the like has corrupted our approach to fictional characters; always trying to compartmentalize them, label them, categorize them, and measure them by what came before. Sometimes it's better to simply take a character on his, her, or it's own merits. That's definitely the case with Hitagi, in my opinion.

I doubt that my post here will be well-received, but I felt compelled to write it anyway, since for me, much of the charm of this anime anyway, is how unique most of the characters are. Even Araragi is a bit different from the norm - I see elements personality characteristics in him that are as different from one another as Kyon is from Light Yagami.
I agree, I hate having to listen to all this tsundere talk as if its suppose to be important... Only thing I find funny about Tsundere..... is Oshino calles her Tsundere-chan because hes having a punt at how mean she can be. Like over the phone you heard him yelling out "put down the stapler!" as if he was trying to avoid an injury. That got some chuckles from me.

But I can tell yous, this aint as bad as it is in the Valkyria forums, I can hardly stand that place anymore <.<
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Last edited by Velsy; 2009-08-20 at 23:25.
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Old 2009-08-20, 20:57   Link #78
Edgewalker
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Saikodere.


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Old 2009-08-21, 13:59   Link #79
Semantics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've never quite understood why many of my fellow anime fans tend to want to classify characters based on a particular personality type. It's like they're somehow less of a character if they go with out a label attached to them.

I can understand the quick application of such personality type labels to somebody clear-cut, like Shana. Shana is obviously a tsundere; in fact, she probably represents the tsundere personality type as well as any anime character has since Akane Tendo. In my mind, when a modern character is labeled a tsundere, they risk getting put into Shana's shadow... unless they're as perfectly tsundere as she is.

With a truly unique character like Hitagi, I personally think it's better to simply enjoy the breath of fresh air that is a character that isn't easily labeled.

I frequently think that TV Tropes and the like has corrupted our approach to fictional characters; always trying to compartmentalize them, label them, categorize them, and measure them by what came before. Sometimes it's better to simply take a character on his, her, or it's own merits. That's definitely the case with Hitagi, in my opinion.

I doubt that my post here will be well-received, but I felt compelled to write it anyway, since for me, much of the charm of this anime anyway, is how unique most of the characters are. Even Araragi is a bit different from the norm - I see elements personality characteristics in him that are as different from one another as Kyon is from Light Yagami.
It's well-received by me, at least. Yes, I understand this need and compulsion to categorize characters by types to better understand them in an already available structure/framework. It happens all the time, not just in anime but also literature or any art form with a narrative and characters.

Yet for a someone like Senjougahara, it's pointless to stuff her into these static typical pigeons holes because she's just not meant to be categorized and stereotyped that way. She's that unique. Yandere, Kuudere, Tsundere etc, they all do not make absolute sense on Hitagi. (although granted she may be a fusion of all of them) The most we can concretely conclude now is that she's definitely genre-binding and different from any other girl in the anime world.

Likewise, this should actually apply to other characters as well, even from other anime. If a character can be too easily pigeon holed, then I believe that is not a good character at all.
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Old 2009-08-22, 07:38   Link #80
ZephyrLeanne
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Ok some really straight forward thoughts here.

If you people noticed, Koyomi mentions "Senjougahara fascination." By and large, I think that's a message to us viewers. Hitagi isn't in any one category, or even two. She's going to be starting a new trend. So get ready.

Next, Senjougahara means "Battlefield plain", or in Chinese, 战场之原. The "ga" in the name means "of".

Thirdly. Nice preemptive strike by Hitagi.
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