AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > One Piece

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-19, 04:03   Link #61
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
But seriously there is one of each fruit only one meaning 1, there should be no talk about what is the rarest or how rare or its rarer then X, When there is only one of each in the bucket. No matter how bad it sucks or how good it is, there is only one of each. They are all equal in that department, since there is only one of each in existence....
Having 1 fruit with 1 power at a time does not mean that all the fruits are readily availabe at the same time. Specifically, maybe the Phoenix Zoan grows once every 100 years (when not already in use), versus a Logia which grows once every 75 years, and the other fruits which grow once every 50 years (these numbers are, of course, made up simply to illustrate a point). Or, say there are a 100 total Devil Fruits (again, these are made up numbers), 75 are general Paramecia and Zoan, 20 are Logia, and 5 are "Mythical" Zoan. Consequently, "Mythical" Zoans would be rarer (simlply because there are fewer) than any other DF. I'm sure there are dozens of other ways we can show how one type of DF s rarer than another, but right now we really do not know which DF are rarer than others, so our thought experiments are a little pointless. Suffice to say, Kizaru/Oda delibrately calls the fruit rare, so something about it (even if is just its ability to fly (which nicepace and I mentioned)) makes this particular fruit rare. The line is too delibrate to not be important, and too random to be a plot hole.

Last edited by james0246; 2009-08-19 at 04:20.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 04:10   Link #62
Master Mold
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LA CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Having 1 fruit with 1 power at a time does not mean that all the fruits are readily availabe at the same time. Specifically, maybe the Phoenix Zoan grows once every 100 years (when not already in use), versus a Logia which grows once every 75 years, and the other fruits which grow once every 50 years (these numbers are, of course, made up simply to illustrate a point). Suffice to say, Kizaru/Oda delibrately calls the fruit rare, so something about it (even if is just its ability to fly (which nicepace and I mentioned)) makes this particular fruit rare.
Yeah, I know, my non canon reader went crazy.

Quote:
The line is too delibrate to not be important, and too random to be a plot hole.
We will find out when Oda gets to talking about DF origins what not (when Dr Punk is introduced hopefully) or never does, but until then what you quoted is my opinion on this small matter.
Master Mold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 05:15   Link #63
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
But seriously there is one of each fruit only one meaning 1, there should be no talk about what is the rarest or how rare or its rarer then X, When there is only one of each in the bucket. No matter how bad it sucks or how good it is, there is only one of each. They are all equal in that department, since there is only one of each in existence....

Spoiler:
That's where you misunderstand.
They aren't saying which ONE of devil fruit is the rarest, as they are all unique, but which KIND.
For example, Logia fruits are rarer than Zoans.
Ancient Zoan fruits are fewer in numbers than non-Ancient one, making them rare.
Likewise, we are to assume that those fruits classified as "Mystical Zoans" are very few in numbers, even fewer than the mighty Logia.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 05:26   Link #64
Eisdrache
Part-time misanthrope
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
-Jozu hurls an Iceburg at Akainu, but the admiral promptly destroys it with magma (urgh.... magma Logia confirmation ). Akainu then attacks Whitebeard as well, but the mighty king of the sea catches it with his spear.
So now we have Jozu maybe fighting Akainu or Mihwak. Or he might end up fighting someone completely different. I still wonder why everyone in the previous thread believed that he would fight Mihawk just because he blocked a blow, but I hope we will see more of Jozu in the next few chapters
Eisdrache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 08:36   Link #65
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
That's where you misunderstand.
They aren't saying which ONE of devil fruit is the rarest, as they are all unique, but which KIND.
For example, Logia fruits are rarer than Zoans.
Ancient Zoan fruits are fewer in numbers than non-Ancient one, making them rare.
Likewise, we are to assume that those fruits classified as "Mystical Zoans" are very few in numbers, even fewer than the mighty Logia.

That make sense, I guess the rarest come to the part of trying to get your hand on it, I.e. a paramecia fruit could be found anywhere in the OP World and grows on an 100 Years life cycle, whereas, a Phoenix Zoan Fruit can only be found every 10,000 years.

Either way, I doubt that, for example, the plant that gave the Gomu Gomu fruit, only grows that Fruit once and thatís it, rather is possible it grows every 100 years or so after the last one was taken from that tree.

Anything can make them unique or rare and not just the availability of the fruit, even the power itself can make them unique(the most powerful ones are rarest than the less powerful).
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 08:57   Link #66
Prestige
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Grand Line
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
That make sense, I guess the rarest come to the part of trying to get your hand on it, I.e. a paramecia fruit could be found anywhere in the OP World and grows on an 100 Years life cycle, whereas, a Phoenix Zoan Fruit can only be found every 10,000 years.

Either way, I doubt that, for example, the plant that gave the Gomu Gomu fruit, only grows that Fruit once and thatís it, rather is possible it grows every 100 years or so after the last one was taken from that tree.

Anything can make them unique or rare and not just the availability of the fruit, even the power itself can make them unique(the most powerful ones are rarest than the less powerful).
Every devil fruit is highly sought and prized item.

Lucci told that every devil fruits even most useless and impractical paramecias will sell atleast 100 000 000 beri.

If you are lucky or powerful enough to get devil fruit then you can sell it with high price even if devil fruit is unidentified with unknown quantitys.

Story gives image that pretty much everyone has devil fruit powers and its nothing that amazing but its only because story has steered through events where devil fruit users are seen.

Even in Grand Line devil fruit users cause awe and wonder. I guess in New World devil fruits are more frequent and not that rare sight.

I would imagine that you could sell devil fruits for extremely high profit for some factions/researchers and collectors, I kinda hope that Oda will give us more information about Devil Fruits.
Prestige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 10:34   Link #67
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τηŤ λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
Oh shit! You are so RIGHT and Oda got so OWNED
I think the context matches with what Oda had said. He is in general referring to the group of abilities as a whole. And he sometimes refers to the type of ability within its group as if it is a separate entity, creating another subgroup. Here, mythical zoan is the subgroup that he is talking about and he considers it as another separate group. So if the number of these abilities is less than the number of logia, then it comes to what he says.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 12:16   Link #68
lonewolf777
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Land of tha Heartless
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
lol Oda just got pwned.
Haha, oops. Did I do that? XD


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Picture of Akainu has finally been released, and I swear he looks just like Charles Bronson (sans the mustache) .
Well, both Aokiji and Kizaru are based on actors, so I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case with Akainu and Charles Bronson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Having 1 fruit with 1 power at a time does not mean that all the fruits are readily availabe at the same time. Specifically, maybe the Phoenix Zoan grows once every 100 years (when not already in use), versus a Logia which grows once every 75 years, and the other fruits which grow once every 50 years (these numbers are, of course, made up simply to illustrate a point). Or, say there are a 100 total Devil Fruits (again, these are made up numbers), 75 are general Paramecia and Zoan, 20 are Logia, and 5 are "Mythical" Zoan. Consequently, "Mythical" Zoans would be rarer (simlply because there are fewer) than any other DF. I'm sure there are dozens of other ways we can show how one type of DF s rarer than another, but right now we really do not know which DF are rarer than others, so our thought experiments are a little pointless. Suffice to say, Kizaru/Oda delibrately calls the fruit rare, so something about it (even if is just its ability to fly (which nicepace and I mentioned)) makes this particular fruit rare. The line is too delibrate to not be important, and too random to be a plot hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
That's where you misunderstand.
They aren't saying which ONE of devil fruit is the rarest, as they are all unique, but which KIND.
For example, Logia fruits are rarer than Zoans.
Ancient Zoan fruits are fewer in numbers than non-Ancient one, making them rare.
Likewise, we are to assume that those fruits classified as "Mystical Zoans" are very few in numbers, even fewer than the mighty Logia.
Word, I get it. I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the explanations.
lonewolf777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 14:31   Link #69
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Not really, are they?

IIRC in the begining of the manga it was said somewhere, that there exists only a total of 100 devil fruits.


Yes, I can confirm that. Here's stephen's translation from the vol. 4 SBS:


Quote:
D: About how many are there in the "Devil Fruit Series," and what other kind of fruits are there?
O: You'll find out what other kinds of fruit there are in the story, but as for how many,
according to the rumors I've heard, there are more than a hundred. And there are
plenty of Devil Fruit Users just waiting in the You-Know-Where.



"You-Know-Where" obviously refers to the Grand Line, since the storyline still took place in East Blue at the time this volume came out.



But yeah, aohige pretty much hit the nail on the head about the "rarity" of DFs. Yes, they're rare in general, but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be sub-classes of Zoan that are even rarer than the "norm". So now we know of both "Ancient" and "Mythical"-type Zoans, which would definitely be fewer in number than any "common" Zoans that are based off domestic animals......




Hmm, I wonder where Garp went? It seems like he's disappeared over these last couple of chapters, huh? I can only guess that he slipped away to directly confront Whitebeard. After all, if he were to go rescue Ace right now, he'd just get in even more hot water with Sengoku.......
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 14:44   Link #70
Freya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern California.
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to Freya
Now imagine if Luffy had the phoenix zoan DF.
__________________
Freya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 15:01   Link #71
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
^He doesn't need one. He only needs a little meat to instantly revive from a fatal wound (poison withstanding, anyway).
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 15:08   Link #72
Master Mold
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LA CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
That's where you misunderstand.
They aren't saying which ONE of devil fruit is the rarest, as they are all unique, but which KIND.
For example, Logia fruits are rarer than Zoans.
Ancient Zoan fruits are fewer in numbers than non-Ancient one, making them rare.
Likewise, we are to assume that those fruits classified as "Mystical Zoans" are very few in numbers, even fewer than the mighty Logia.
Got ya.

So judging from Marco and Yellows convo the 1st Division Commander don't feel any pain, even when he is turned into Swiss cheese by Yellows lasers. Since whenever one makes an attempted to inflect pain on the other, Marco/Yellow ends up lying about the pain.

Moria's a Joke now, I hope lil Oz 3rd knocks him clean, and Doflamingo laughs at him.
Master Mold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 15:22   Link #73
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
^Hey, don't be dissin' my boy Moria, now! Really, all he would need to do in this fight is swipe some poor sap's shadow and the sun will take care of the rest. However, I doubt he'd resort to that since he wants to add some more undead warrior to his collection, anyway. Like I've been saying all along, he's pretty much the underdog of the Shichibukai......




And that reminds me, I still haven't given up on the idea of zombie Pacifistas. Just imagine, a bunch of powerful undead cyborgs (modified from the corpses of various legendary pirates, of course) going buck wild on those New World pirates. Man, that would be so awesome.......
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 16:37   Link #74
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τηŤ λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
And that reminds me, I still haven't given up on the idea of zombie Pacifistas. Just imagine, a bunch of powerful undead cyborgs (modified from the corpses of various legendary pirates, of course) going buck wild on those New World pirates. Man, that would be so awesome.......
What you are trying to create is a zombie version of Kuma vs. his cyborg version. Other than the intelligence, I don't see too much difference. Cause Cyborgs can also be considered as undead so long as they are repaired (and that is something the zombie ones will need too, they shouldn't be capable of healing broken machinery).
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 17:19   Link #75
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
The thing is, since Pacifistas are still human, they're still capable of feeling pain and can bleed, no matter how strong their metal alloy is (and not to mention that they'd most likely still get tired from fighting for a prolonged period of time). This was proven when Drake attacked one of the Kuma clones at Sabaody. A cyborg zombie wouldn't have those limitations. They'd be able to fight non-stop without worries of feeling pain/fatigue from fatal injuries. Furthermore, they'd adapt the different fighting styles from the shadows of various powerful pirates/warriors that Moria acquired, further making them a force to be reckoned with. I'm also sure that they wouldn't be Kuma clones either, since Moria favors using the corpses of all sorts of legendary villains, anyhow. I know that their "weakness" is salt, but do you honestly think that all of those warring pirates will coincidentally be carrying a pinch of salt on their person? I think not.......
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 17:29   Link #76
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
^Wouldn't the better option be to simply make them robots/androids? If Vegapunk can get a gun to eat a devil fruit, I expect that his next move will be to simply create robots (ala the little mole creatures on the Moon). Zombie Pacifistas, while interesting, do not really solve any problems (considering that their creation is dependent upon an untrustworthy pirate) that a robot/android wouldn't solve. In fact a robot/android would be better, considering that it would be 100% obedient (until it becomes self-aware and joins Luffy's crew ).
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 18:28   Link #77
cheese4u
da big boss
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
The thing is, since Pacifistas are still human, they're still capable of feeling pain and can bleed, no matter how strong their metal alloy is (and not to mention that they'd most likely still get tired from fighting for a prolonged period of time). This was proven when Drake attacked one of the Kuma clones at Sabaody. A cyborg zombie wouldn't have those limitations. They'd be able to fight non-stop without worries of feeling pain/fatigue from fatal injuries. Furthermore, they'd adapt the different fighting styles from the shadows of various powerful pirates/warriors that Moria acquired, further making them a force to be reckoned with. I'm also sure that they wouldn't be Kuma clones either, since Moria favors using the corpses of all sorts of legendary villains, anyhow. I know that their "weakness" is salt, but do you honestly think that all of those warring pirates will coincidentally be carrying a pinch of salt on their person? I think not.......
Or they could use the sea.
__________________
Ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it. -Leon Phelps
cheese4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 18:49   Link #78
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Wouldn't the better option be to simply make them robots/androids? If Vegapunk can get a gun to eat a devil fruit, I expect that his next move will be to simply create robots (ala the little mole creatures on the Moon). Zombie Pacifistas, while interesting, do not really solve any problems (considering that their creation is dependent upon an untrustworthy pirate) that a robot/android wouldn't solve. In fact a robot/android would be better, considering that it would be 100% obedient (until it becomes self-aware and joins Luffy's crew ).

I've actually put that into consideration in the past, and I think the answer to why the government simply doesn't build robots is pretty simple: Money.


Think about it. We already learned from Sentoumaru that building a single Pacifista costs as much money as building a battleship. Therefore, building a robot from scratch would be far more costly, especially when you also consider all the programming that needs to be done. Plus, even if they do successfully mass-produce a soulless army of mass destruction, there's always the risk of that one odd robot malfunctioning and becoming sentient, deciding to lead its metal brethren to revolt against the inferior humans......



....Well, maybe not. But that sentient A.I. thing actually brings me to another point: Moria will still have absolute control over his zombies, no matter what. Remember, even Oz, who was infused with Luffy's rebellious shadow, still eventually had his will bent by Moria's influence. So if you ask me, zombie cyborgs still have an edge over both Pacifistas and androids.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u View Post
Or they could use the sea.

I haven't forgotten that whole "power of the sea" thing either, but considering that most of the guys fighting are DF users anyway, I'd imagine they'd have a hell of a rough time pushing the zombies into the ocean (pretty much the only sure-fire way they'd lose would be if Whitebeard summoned another tsunami).......
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 21:19   Link #79
mrjpark
Raging Ami-chan fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
How strong does White Beard have to be to be able to command the respect of a guy like Marco T_T If I had that DF, I'd have my own freaking crew.
__________________
mrjpark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-19, 21:47   Link #80
Hisoka??
Ultra noob
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Out of all the discussion going on along with the Whitebeard Pirates pwning in this current chapter yet again, you chose to quote that post/line. Not that its surprising, Yeah, Prestige, try harder next time, to hide that M&M hate.

But seriously there is one of each fruit only one meaning 1, there should be no talk about what is the rarest or how rare or its rarer then X, When there is only one of each in the bucket. No matter how bad it sucks or how good it is, there is only one of each. They are all equal in that department, since there is only one of each in existence....

Spoiler:
it's possible for the DF to be rare. I'll give you an example: Assuming there are a total of 1000 fruits.

600 are permecian(sp)
350 are zoans, with 10 mythical zoan
50 are logias.

In this scenario, it does make sense to say mythical zoans are more rare than logias. We're talking about classes of DF here and not the DF itself.

One issue though is that I'm still confused about blackbeard's df. while it's claimed to be a special logia, it seems to be really a permecian with 2 abilities (making "black holes" and df nullification).
Hisoka?? is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.