AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10 24 14.91%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 25.47%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 60 37.27%
7 out of 10 : Good 25 15.53%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 4.97%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.24%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.62%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-18, 15:22   Link #261
maximilianjenus
[E]
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
TL;DR Rosa is the best mother;

Oh, I give this episode a 10.
maximilianjenus is offline  
Old 2009-08-18, 15:22   Link #262
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Like I said before: what was the fire starter here? Maria who is bratty/demanding, or Rosa who was trigger happy?
There is no proof Rosa's violent behavior didn't start the whole witch and kiddy attitude.

Both problems might be the origin of the other one.
As mentioned by Jessica in Ep1 (VN material), the Ushiromiya knew that Rosa saw in Maria as an obstacle for remarriage. Of course, "maybe" it is because she is like this, but it might be because she see Maria as a burden that Maria turned like this.
Ergo, it is better to see it case by case.
Klashikari is offline  
Old 2009-08-18, 17:37   Link #263
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
Quote:
Like I said before: what was the fire starter here? Maria who is bratty/demanding, or Rosa who was trigger happy?
This is not really a who attacked first kid fight though. As an adult Rosa is supposed to carry the burden. There's no way around it. Part of being an adult is to accept the responsability to partially nullify yourself as a person for the sake of te next generation. Being unable to do that is already a symptom of psychological immaturity.
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-08-18, 18:26   Link #264
porchoky
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I'll give you that both Maria and Rosa are messed up, but I think Maria is more messed up. You would think getting smacked around a few times a day would sober Maria up, but not the case at all... From a psychology/conditioning POV, if you go -uu -uu and get hit, that ought to condition you to not go -uu -uu anymore. I might be wrong, but I don't think Rosa's abusive nature turned Maria into what she is now, she natrually turned out that way (or blame it on Beatrice).
porchoky is offline  
Old 2009-08-18, 21:47   Link #265
k//eternal
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 26
I think Rosa will be better understood (and more favorably viewed) within the next few eps, so just hang tight. I don't think you're supposed to like Rosa right now, for what it's worth.
k//eternal is offline  
Old 2009-08-19, 04:16   Link #266
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
This is not really a who attacked first kid fight though. As an adult Rosa is supposed to carry the burden. There's no way around it. Part of being an adult is to accept the responsability to partially nullify yourself as a person for the sake of te next generation. Being unable to do that is already a symptom of psychological immaturity.
That's correct, I wholeheartedly agree. It is just that people claims Rosa has full right to react like this, because Maria is just acting spoiled and messed up.
But that claim doesn't work that way if we speculate that Maria got terribly messed up because of Rosa's reaction. In that kind of situation, it would be a no brainer whose fault it is.

And if it is Maria who was the origin of this situation, like you said, Rosa had the responsibility to do something, which she failed to do so.
Ergo, the conclusion is practically one sided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porchoky View Post
I'll give you that both Maria and Rosa are messed up, but I think Maria is more messed up. You would think getting smacked around a few times a day would sober Maria up, but not the case at all... From a psychology/conditioning POV, if you go -uu -uu and get hit, that ought to condition you to not go -uu -uu anymore. I might be wrong, but I don't think Rosa's abusive nature turned Maria into what she is now, she natrually turned out that way (or blame it on Beatrice).
Huh? How can you make such conclusion anyway?
I will say it again, but Maria did -not- consider crazy Rosa as her mother, she even went saying she was the "evil witch" (despite her obsession witches that look more like fluffy magicians instead) and was waiting for her mother.
People do not "naturally turn" abusive all the time, they can be abusive by nature themselves.

Furthermore, from a psychology/conditioning POV, there is no textbook case where all kids will react like this.
Some will feel guilty, but a lot will -not- understand why they are punished. There is absolutely no worse education method than "you are wrong, *bitch slap* shut up" kind of treatment: it isn't educating one bit, it is simply lashing frustration over a child, who is absolutely unable to comprehend why they became a sandbag.
And since I mentioned already that Maria "cannot" recognize her mother, the whole purpose of this violence is not only useless, but basically negative for Maria's development.

If you check the drama and VN, you will realize that Rosa says "I did it again..." which means she OFTEN let loose her violence and abusive behavior despite she herself knows it is unecessary.
There was no point to continue the violence past grabbing Maria's hair (which was already breaking the fine line of abuse already).
Klashikari is offline  
Old 2009-08-19, 09:36   Link #267
Alaya
Counter Force
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
I would like to add something for Rosa's behavior as a mother. I grew up in a country and generation that hitting your child as punishment (spanking) is not considered violence.

However, what Rosa did would still consider abusive in my culture, which has an idiom something like "if you love your cow, tie it to the pole, if you love your child, spank him". Grabbing her child hair, slapping her face and yell at her like that is not a proper punishment at all. It is violence, which show lack of self-control. Yes, she could spank her but that have to come after proper explanation about what did she do wrong in detail first. Rosa's mother would only scar her daughter emotion and mental in the long run.
__________________
Fate/Zero: This was the tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and was driven to despair by them.

Madoka: This was the tale of magical girls whose wishes are pure and by them are driven to despair.
Alaya is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 02:17   Link #268
porchoky
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
No, you're all right. Rosa is one messed up mother. I'm probably not allowed to even say it in spoiler tags but I think you know why the sudden change. Link to post in game discussion thread

Last edited by porchoky; 2009-08-20 at 03:28.
porchoky is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 18:08   Link #269
ghost_zero5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Btw. was Rosa in the chapel? I don't remember her being there in the VN and actually it doesn't make sense as this would make 7 sacrifices and she has to be alive for the next episodes...
ghost_zero5 is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 18:13   Link #270
Ttak
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brazil
Strangely, she was there. And in the VN that scene didn't make sense at all too, really
__________________

Thanks for the sig Risa chan
Ttak is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 18:22   Link #271
ghost_zero5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
She was there in the VN too. I totally forgot that (well I have gone through all VN episodes only once so far - will go through all of them again definitely and probably more thoroughly - and some parts I didn't watch/read that thoroughly but still I should have noticed this. Furthermore, she even ackknowledged Beatrice to be a witch in that scene which would make further events to come even more strange.
The only good explanation would be that she is a murderer accomplice or is there any other possibility?
ghost_zero5 is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 19:09   Link #272
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
I guess everyone forgot Rosa was there to avoid the subsequent mindfuck XD.

Yes Rosa was there, and no one ever came up with a good explanation as for why she doesn't tell anyone what she has witnessed, or rather how can she act as if that never happened.
__________________


Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2009-08-20 at 19:20.
Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 19:11   Link #273
ghost_zero5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Well it also is strange regarding the Tea Party scene with Rosa and Maria and in the end Battler because she already ackknowledged Beatrice to be a witch before.

In any case she needs to be a decent actress because normally it is quite likely to let something slip at least once.
ghost_zero5 is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 21:37   Link #274
Arbane the Terrible
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Yes Rosa was there, and no one ever came up with a good explanation as for why she doesn't tell anyone what she has witnessed, or rather how can she act as if that never happened.
Denial: It's not just a river in Egypt!
Arbane the Terrible is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 23:34   Link #275
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Denial? She recognized the existence of the witch, how can that be called "denial"?
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-08-20, 23:37   Link #276
Ithekro
Space Battlecarrier
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
How was the chapel open?
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2009-08-24, 10:29   Link #277
-Sho-
~Omedetô~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
In this episode , Maria sure love slaps ! "I love you Mom , specially your Slaps's moments" XD
-Sho- is offline  
Old 2009-08-24, 12:03   Link #278
maximilianjenus
[E]
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
rosa being in teh chappel the acting as if she knew nothing about it is what makes her one the higher suspects in this arc.
maximilianjenus is offline  
Old 2009-08-24, 15:50   Link #279
Sute443
Sasaki-ist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
rosa being in teh chappel the acting as if she knew nothing about it is what makes her one the higher suspects in this arc.
Rosa can only be a suspect in this arc if she has at least one accomplice. Remember the three bars of gold on the table? No way she could have gotten those on her own. Even if they aren't from the legendary gold of Beatrice, Rosa is in a desperate financial situation so I doubt she could afford them.

The point about it being suspicious that Rosa acknowledged Beatrice in the chapel and the acted like she didn't is very good, though. I'd completely missed that.
Sute443 is offline  
Old 2009-08-24, 16:14   Link #280
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Well about that, if you want to go on wild speculations:

Spoiler for novel start of episode2:
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.