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Old 2009-08-20, 13:47   Link #1981
Foreshadow
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Oh my lord....
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Old 2009-08-20, 16:07   Link #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
You know, twisting events to fit your preference doesn't exactly prove anything. I can be a blind fan boy when I want to but I wouldn't go to these extents. I wouldn't mind so much if you were joking but I get the impression that you're not from this post.
I take it since you've dropped to an unsupported ad hominem attack that you can't actually argue with my analysis. Pity, I'd like to have been shown where I'd missed something.

Ranka repeatedly bounces her crush on Alto off what appears to her to be his relationship with Sheryl. It is terribly sad.

Other than when acting in the movie does Alto ever kiss Ranka? Have you forgotten him recoiling in shock over the idea?

Alto is apparently more willing to kiss random actresses than Ranka.
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Old 2009-08-20, 17:13   Link #1983
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Moved posts regarding Sheryl to the proper thread. Please keep the content to where it belongs.

Oh, and all of you who are discussing Chinese food - I hope that you know that you're an evil bunch, and that you're all going to hell! And that there won't be any Chinese food for you.


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Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
I'm guessing that if the opposite side comes in and criticizes Ranka by posting bullcrap that isn't helping the discussion here at all, that fits the definition of "trolling". Honestly, I think that this whole "going back and forth" about Ranka's fault is completely nuts; if Sheryl fans are enjoying this whole "bashing Ranka" thing, how come we can't bash Sheryl in the Sheryl thread?
Hopefully, there won't be any bashing of any kind at all. Although it should be noted that there's a big difference between bashing and legitimate criticisms. And if you feel that you're being unduly attacked for your opinions, please click on the "Report Post" button - it doesn't mean that the perpetrator will get immediately banned or anything like that; it just means that we moderators will take a close look at what's going on.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
You know, twisting events to fit your preference doesn't exactly prove anything. I can be a blind fan boy when I want to but I wouldn't go to these extents. I wouldn't mind so much if you were joking but I get the impression that you're not from this post.
Not to take any sides, but if you want to claim that someone is misinterpreting a story point, you really should bring up why you think that that is so. Alternatively, you can just flesh out your arguments a bit.
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Old 2009-08-20, 17:16   Link #1984
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No it's really twisting it. Alto's more willing to kiss unknown actresses because:
1.) He knows Ranka it means he meets with her again after the kiss scene. Chances for that with a random actress is low.
2.)Ranka's untrained as an actress. For her even a fake kiss means a lot probably.
3.) Perhaps most probably Alto has feelings for Ranka(.man, Kawamori I love the ending you made!~sarcasm. I have to use cloudy words when I describe Alto's feelings for the heroines to avoid being called either pro-Ranka or pro-Sheryl.)

It's warping the things as much as somone posted on the romance thrad that Alto was disgusted by Sheryl's kiss.(he based it on his own 12 year old brother's comment!).
And you were wrong about your previous statement too. Ranka has no way to think it as Sheryl and Alto being in relationship. Not to mention even the viewers aren't certain about that(Thanks Kawamori!...thanks!~sarcasm x2).

First Ranka has no knownledge about most of scenes of Alto with Sheryl.Second she's naive and has little knownledge about romance or relationships.
But you're somewhat right too if I think about it. Ranka may had a faint fear that Sheryl and Alto are already in a relationship. But it makes things worse for her, because her suspicion "proves right"(Thanks Kawamori again...I should shorten it into an acronym like TKA:P). It means she misunderstood that scene even more and made a pretty serious conclusion from that.
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Old 2009-08-20, 17:37   Link #1985
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Oh, and all of you who are discussing Chinese food - I hope that you know that you're an evil bunch, and that you're all going to hell! And that there won't be any Chinese food for you.

Well, in that case I take the philippine version of buns! Nyan Nyan, Nyan nyan, nihao nyan!
Spoiler for Buns!:


Hmpf. I get hungry now :/
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Old 2009-08-20, 18:44   Link #1986
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Nyan Nyan is a Chinese restaurant though, so Ranka definitely wouldn't have Filipino buns. Besides, aren't they the same thing as Chines buns anyways?
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Old 2009-08-20, 18:56   Link #1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
You know, twisting events to fit your preference doesn't exactly prove anything. I can be a blind fan boy when I want to but I wouldn't go to these extents. I wouldn't mind so much if you were joking but I get the impression that you're not from this post.
The problem is Dexxy, that he is not totally incorrect.

We note that since episode 5 on, Ranka had witnessed, on numerous occasions, where Alto & Sheryl spent quality time together, alone. She later noticed how comfortable Sheryl was when talking about Alto. In contrast, the level of physical intimacy between Ranka and Alto had been kept in a relatively low profile.

Then she witnessed that atrocious rooftop incident, and it broke her heart.

Yet, you have to wonder, by then, was it at all that surprising to her? She had a mental break down as if this was the first time she seen them together like that, when in fact, it wasn't. Her reaction only serve to tell me that she had been misinterpreting a lot of intentions...

- Tak
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:06   Link #1988
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Yet, you have to wonder, by then, was it at all that surprising to her? She had a mental break down as if this was the first time she seen them together like that, when in fact, it wasn't. Her reaction only serve to tell me that she had been misinterpreting a lot of intentions...

- Tak
The most egregious one before the rooftop incident being the visit Alto paid her in episode 17.
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:13   Link #1989
Tak
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Nyan Nyan is a Chinese restaurant though, so Ranka definitely wouldn't have Filipino buns. Besides, aren't they the same thing as Chines buns anyways?
Well, those are actually the same exact things you see being sold at yamcha joints. But I guess the joke is that Megu is half Filipino

Oh, and living in Southern California, you cannot get away from Chinese food even if you wanted to. Did I mention I just had dimsum for lunch? Oh dear me, I will be going to hell now...

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
The most egregious one before the rooftop incident being the visit Alto paid her in episode 17.
I really thought you were going to say she get to touch his hair in episode 13!

- Tak
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:17   Link #1990
Foreshadow
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About Ranka's Memory disorder thing...

How come It only "activates" once, Shouldn't it happen again during the attacks in 20?, or anything violent-ish?

Last edited by Foreshadow; 2009-08-20 at 23:00.
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Old 2009-08-20, 20:09   Link #1991
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I really thought you were going to say she get to touch his hair in episode 13!

- Tak
I am not so unkind as to assume that this was a misinterpretation from her side... in episodes 12 to 13 she had her best shot at getting together with Alto. It didnt happen and in episode 17 the budding relationship got shot dead with that scene where he visited her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreshadow View Post
About Ranka's Memory disorder thing...

How come It only "activates" once, Shouldn't it happen again during the attacks in 20?, or anything violent-ish?
Arguably it activated also in episode 14, when she was rescued from the Vajra queen. Other than that, it was not really used again, since she recovered her memories around episode 20.
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2009-08-20 at 20:47. Reason: Correcting sentence structure
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Old 2009-08-20, 23:07   Link #1992
Death Header
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Quote:
in episodes 12 to 13 she had her best shot at getting together with Alto.
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?

Any suggestions?
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Old 2009-08-20, 23:13   Link #1993
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?

Any suggestions?
The only thing that had much of a chance of helping would have been to come straight out and told him that she loved him, and that she wanted them to be a couple. As is, it's a bit of a long shot - not because of Sheryl, but because Alto wasn't really all that interested in a romantic relationship at that time (or really, even at the end).
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Old 2009-08-20, 23:16   Link #1994
Foreshadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?

Any suggestions?
Some Seduction always works.... Well.. Okay, Sometimes

Well, They definitely had some differences of principle when Ranka left, I'm not too sure that's changeable.

To be Honest, I really don't think they match that well. Alto isn't quite honest with his feelings unless he's forced too, I don't really see Ranka pushing him to make a decision. They could have a functional relationship but they wouldn't quite be true to themselves. Almost always when they interact it's either Alto giving her advice or protecting her.

Last edited by Foreshadow; 2009-08-20 at 23:39.
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Old 2009-08-20, 23:26   Link #1995
ickem
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Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?

Any suggestions?
The easiest way would have been for her to try to understand him instead of simply always depending on him to help her out of even the most minor of problems. The damsel in distress card wears thin after the 10th time it gets used... Anyway, I think actually asking questions about Alto would have helped a lot.
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Old 2009-08-20, 23:58   Link #1996
Tak
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Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?
The difference between how Sheryl and Ranka handles Alto is profound.

Sheryl was able to make Alto speak of things he was otherwise comfortable with (his past), and commit actions he swore never to commit (returning to his home) again. Why? Because Sheryl cares and asks. Slowly but surely, their conversation became more interactive.

Ranka doesn't ask. Even the most die-hard Ranka fan will be forced to note the fact that whenever Ranka and Alto are involved in a conversation, most of the topic, be it texting or face-to-face, would revolve around Ranka, and Ranka alone. Most of the time, its about her, how she had a fight with Ozma, how she wanted to sing and Alto's approval. Gets tiring after a while.

- Tak
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:32   Link #1997
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Not to take any sides, but if you want to claim that someone is misinterpreting a story point, you really should bring up why you think that that is so. Alternatively, you can just flesh out your arguments a bit.
I actually was going to tell him exactly what he misinterpreted because it can be argued either way but this isn't exactly the romance thread and I know what would come next I've been in these sub-forums long enough to know how to avoid long-winded and redundant discussions that have been done to death. That was the only reason why I preferred just to say it like that. I've written my fair share of "walls of text."
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:34   Link #1998
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Ranka doesn't ask. Even the most die-hard Ranka fan will be forced to note the fact that whenever Ranka and Alto are involved in a conversation, most of the topic, be it texting or face-to-face, would revolve around Ranka, and Ranka alone. Most of the time, its about her, how she had a fight with Ozma, how she wanted to sing and Alto's approval. Gets tiring after a while.
To be fair, one of the big reasons why Ranka acts like this has a lot to do with why she doesn't try to understand Alto - she simply lacks the depth of experience to know any better. She doesn't know how to relate to Alto in the slightest, so all she can go on is about the things that she does know about - and those things usually revolve around herself. What I find nice about this (and about Ranka's character in general) is that she's very much written according to her age - she's a child on the cusp of adulthood, and so she acts much like a child (a real one, not an anime one).

One good example of this is Ranka's ignorance of all sorts of things about Alto. She never asked him about them because she simply never thought to ask - on Alto's part, his personality doesn't lend him to volunteering that information either. It's a bit of a dysfunctional relationship, but I think it gives it more of a visceral edge.
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:10   Link #1999
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Originally Posted by Death Header View Post
This makes me wonder, what should Ranka have done in order to win Alto over?

Any suggestions?
This is an interesting question, especially since the concept of "winning" someone's heart is often an integral part of romantic stories. But the problem is this: you can't make someone love you. What's more, the real love in a relationship shows itself in the feelings you freely give to another person, not in the feelings that you want to see given in return (even if it does make you feel good).

Another problem is that this line of thinking is that it objectifies the other person; by this principle, if you push the right buttons and make the right choices, they're bound to fall in love with you. In reality, it isn't your effort, but rather their choice, that determines whether your feelings are reciprocated. Love isn't a 1P game.

This is where a lot of romance series fall short, as they usually try to capitalize more on the wish fulfillment aspect of a crush, rather than developing how the characters care for each other. This seems to be a point in which the Macross series that I've watched consistently set themselves apart.
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:16   Link #2000
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This is an interesting question, especially since the concept of "winning" someone's heart is often an integral part of romantic stories. But the problem is this: you can't make someone love you. What's more, the real love in a relationship shows itself in the feelings you freely give to another person, not in the feelings that you want to see given in return (even if it does make you feel good).

Another problem is that this line of thinking is that it objectifies the other person; by this principle, if you push the right buttons and make the right choices, they're bound to fall in love with you. In reality, it isn't your effort, but rather their choice, that determines whether your feelings are reciprocated. Love isn't exactly a 1P game.

This is where a lot of romance series fall short, as they usually try to capitalize more on the wish fulfillment aspect of a crush, rather than developing how the characters care for each other. This seems to be a point in which the Macross series that I've watched consistently set themselves apart.
I'd agree with that, and it's one of the things that bugs me about a lot of Macross fans who dislike Minmay...I've seen people say, time and again, that Hikaru really loved Minmay but she was too self-absorbed to notice...which seems to me to be missing the larger point that she REALLY, GENUINELY DID NOT LIKE HIM "LIKE THAT."

At least not until much later.

you can have the most wonderful, caring person standing in front of you saying, "Take me! Take me!" But if for some reason the spark ain't there, it ain't there.
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