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Old 2009-08-25, 14:52   Link #61
james0246
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Seriously, why do the One Piece fan base always bring up another manga when One Piece is put under the Guillotine?
Um, Rurik is far more of a Naruto fan than anything else. Instead of leaping to the conclusion that he is a fanboy, please read his statement again. He clearly says that all the mangaka have this problem (and they do, its similar to the problem of why characters don't start battles with their strongest techniques, somthing no mangaka can clearly explain), he was not indicating that One Piece was somehow better, just similar. Consequently, he was proving that needlessly complain about something that is similar amongst all Shounen manga is foolish if you only single out one particular title. If Phenomenal is willing to say that this occurance in all manga is bad writing, the Rurik point would be disproved, otherwise it still stands.
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Old 2009-08-25, 14:54   Link #62
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Um, Rurik is far more of a Naruto fan than anything else. Instead of leaping to the conclusion that he is a fanboy, please read his statement again. He clearly says that all the mangaka have this problem (and they do, its similar to the problem of why characters don't start battles with their strongest techniques), he was not indicating that One Piece was somehow better, just similar.
When did I ever say he is a fanboy? or leaping to the conclusion. Please read my statement again.
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Old 2009-08-25, 14:55   Link #63
james0246
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^Is there some strange difference between you saying fan base and fanboy? Because you use both in a derogatory manner...

I'm off for a little bit, see you people later.
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Old 2009-08-25, 14:56   Link #64
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Seriously, why do the One Piece fan base always bring up another manga when One Piece is put under the Guillotine?
I put on examples, but my post was aim as an overall , as I said “in any other series”, any one that reads more that 2 mangas (or comic books for that matter) can tell that the “Could’ve had , Would had, didn’t do” is part of those type of series story progression.
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Old 2009-08-25, 14:59   Link #65
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Is there some strange difference between you saying fan base and fanboy?
Fan =/= Fanboy.

Fan base =/= Fanboys.

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Because you use both in a derogatory manner...
"M&M said I was apart of the One Piece fan base, oh God he hurt my feelings."
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Old 2009-08-25, 15:07   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
I still cant understand why you guys try to explain what is happening in this Manga to him, Heck, the whole “IF he had that why He din not used it before” question to bash a mangaka is rather silly considering that you don’t have to look hard in any other series (including the noble prized writings Naruto or Bleach) to find things just like that.
I think One Piece can be considered a bit different. Here, the first time that many people use some of their important moves happens during a fight (Bleach may have similar things, but I guess that may only apply to the hero of the story there). No training (as in trying to use that and make the body get used to it kind of thing) to develop that move, instead it just happens. So, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that Moria came up with that ability just recently.

But, of course, you can always say that, the only reason Moria didn't use that move against the Straw hats is because he didn't want to kill them which would also mean throwing away some valuable shadows. Now, if someone wants to make him a stupid character in this story, that is fine with me. They should just say this openly.
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Old 2009-08-25, 15:07   Link #67
andy
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Since Moria turned into a huge frog his shadow would have taken the same shape, not to mention even if that was not the case the shadow box was not even the size of base mode Moria.

Simply Moria had shadow left to create X blade.
You don't know if shadow box is move that take all his shadows to form no matter his size .We still don't how spear is form until we see pics or would he have the amount left back to form the spear ,he might only be able to form it with all his shadow.We don't even know if moria can do more than 1 type of shadow attack at once.
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Old 2009-08-25, 15:12   Link #68
Master Mold
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Red face

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
You don't know if shadow box is move that take all his shadows to form no matter his size .We still don't how spear is form until we see pics or would he have the amount left back to form the spear . We don't even know if moria can do more than 1 type of shadow attack at once.
Well the box was not close to the size of Moria's shadow, and brick bat is a series of multiple attacks, it would have been over for Luffy if Moria formed a bunch or ninja star/knives like weapons and shower Luffy's a$$ with them instead of brick bat IMO.

But its whatever, we can agree to disagree.
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Old 2009-08-25, 15:24   Link #69
andy
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One a side note i think that pic with oars jr have something stab in him is moria . From looks of it moria just made his shadow go up and oars jr fall on it not to certain. Will have to see better quality pics. So it does not really look like what call a weapon he just made his shadow go up with a point and oars jr fall on top it .
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Old 2009-08-25, 16:09   Link #70
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It just goes to show how strong Oars is that it took 3 Shichbukai to bring him down. I don't believe he is dead. Zoro has suffered some injuries by all logic he should have died from many times, as is the case with Luffy. I think Oars is out for now, but no way is that monster is dead.

It also shows how cruel the Marines are. They want Ace to be a broken man, by the time his execution comes to be.
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Old 2009-08-25, 16:21   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
No, Moria still used Brick bat and shadow box against Luffy after he used Odz. The man simply could have used blades to kill Luffy instead of useless technique [Shadow asgard] and punches against him. Stop with the excuses..Terrible writing.
You are just retarded, its not terrible writing you are not just making any sense.

Ok, trouble your brains a little now and think;

WHOS SHADOW OZ WAS USING?


Listen I even answer you, Luffys. Why did every victim whose shadow was stolen was released? Because if shadows original user dies so will shadow and it will be back as corpse.

Moria would not kill Luffy with his spears, if he would Oz would been reduced as corpse and his ideal gumi-gumi powers would be evaporated aswell.

Stop pretending to be so damn all knowing when you really dont know a jack...

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I only go back to Bleach when I have to school you Prestige! And my points are never biased, I show no partiality, these mangas aren't even in my top ten
I wonder what is your favorites...
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Old 2009-08-25, 17:21   Link #72
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Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
It just goes to show how strong Oars is that it took 3 Shichbukai to bring him down. I don't believe he is dead. Zoro has suffered some injuries by all logic he should have died from many times, as is the case with Luffy. I think Oars is out for now, but no way is that monster is dead.

It also shows how cruel the Marines are. They want Ace to be a broken man, by the time his execution comes to be.
You cant call Marines cruel, there the good guys remember!
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Old 2009-08-25, 19:17   Link #73
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
No you don't , i look at circumstances also moria had every advantage vs luffy. Fight luffy at his home base, had spiders catch him where he could steal his shadow, had oars, had almost shadows for the last how many years in one place where none of them could die since there is no sun light .
They fought twice. The first time was inside of the freezer where Oars was being housed, and just by sitting on his ass and using his brick bats, Luffy couldn't even touch Moria. I know that Luffy hadn't used his gears at that point, but then again Moria was playing around the whole time. The second time they fought, Moria was already defeated due to the 100 shadow power up Luffy received. This is the only information we have to go by, and everything else you mentioned is irrelevant.

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Just oars is a big power up and advantage by it self.
Oars was an extension of Moria's power. Moria was only using his devil fruit to its utmost potential (implanting shadows into corpses), so using Oars as a tool was completely fair game. However, the 100 shadow power up Luffy got did not come from his own abilities, and therein lies the difference between both of their power ups. Luffy, with his own abilities, was not capable of achieving the ludicrous level of power he had in his nightmare form; he had to get help from outside interference to attain that high level, so how can you say Luffy is stronger than him? This is why you can't just look at the results when making strength comparisons.

Also, like I suspected, Moria didn't show his full arsenal of moves back at Thriller Bark. Making a shadow lance was pretty creative on his part. I wonder what other tricks he has up sleeve.
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Old 2009-08-25, 19:36   Link #74
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Ah, nice to see that the spoilers from yesterday were actually confirmed to be true! So we finally see Hancock in action, eh? By the way, about Oars' possible death, aohige followed up his translation with this:



Quote:
Oh god LOL

Nja
Sorry to cut you guys off...

Whether Oars died or not isn't clear

Hancock is trashing enemies up, but the only parts that's shattering are the parts that got stoned. There's some pirates and marines still talking as their right arm is crumbling, so it's not clear if they are dead.

I thought I should follow up on this.



Still, the fact that people are actually losing limbs is already a sign that this war is no joke (and at least it seems to be implied that Oars Jr. gets finished off by Moria....). Speaking of Moria, it's pretty cool to see that he reveals a new shadow technique (would've been neat to see him use that spear against Luffy at Thriller Bark, but whatever). Hopefully, he'll pull some more tricks up from his sleeve as the war continues.....
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Old 2009-08-25, 19:39   Link #75
james0246
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^Actually, we still haven't seen Hancock in full action. She still has Haoushoku Haki, and whatever that ability can do (besides knock out large amounts of people).

As for Moria, we, or at least I, already assumed that he could form shadow weapons, the only question is what he could do with them (i.e. are they singular weapons; can he split them up into smaller weapons; etc).
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Old 2009-08-25, 19:46   Link #76
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Still, the fact that people are actually losing limbs is already a sign that this war is no joke (and at least it seems to be implied that Oars Jr. gets finished off by Moria....). Speaking of Moria, it's pretty cool to see that he reveals a new shadow technique (would've been neat to see him use that spear against Luffy at Thriller Bark, but whatever). Hopefully, he'll pull some more tricks up from his sleeve as the war continues.....
Speaking of losing limbs, how Doflamingo cut off Oars Jr.'s leg was horrifying yet interesting. < "WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!" I'm still guessing that Doflamingo has a Devil Fruit power involving strings (especially the cutting kind).
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Old 2009-08-25, 20:12   Link #77
marvelB
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Actually, we still haven't seen Hancock in full action. She still has Haoushoku Haki, and whatever that ability can do (besides knock out large amounts of people).


I know that, but at least we're learning that she's doing something other than petrifying/charming all of the fodder guys. Still, I guess we have to wait until we see her fight against a halfway decent opponent before she reveals the full extent of her abilities (like a Whitebeard commander or NW captain or something).....




Quote:
As for Moria, we, or at least I, already assumed that he could form shadow weapons, the only question is what he could do with them (i.e. are they singular weapons; can he split them up into smaller weapons; etc).



Yeah, forming shadows from weapons was also an ability I've been expecting to see from Moria since TB (though again, I just wish that he revealed that particular ability during the storyline in question). It's nice to know that his powers have that sort of versatility. And hopefully, we'll see Moria make Oars III into his newest zombie slave (provided the giant actually DOES die at the end of this chapter)......
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Old 2009-08-25, 20:29   Link #78
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
They fought twice. The first time was inside of the freezer where Oars was being housed, and just by sitting on his ass and using his brick bats, Luffy couldn't even touch Moria. I know that Luffy hadn't used his gears at that point, but then again Moria was playing around the whole time. The second time they fought, Moria was already defeated due to the 100 shadow power up Luffy received. This is the only information we have to go by, and everything else you mentioned is irrelevant.


Oars was an extension of Moria's power. Moria was only using his devil fruit to its utmost potential (implanting shadows into corpses), so using Oars as a tool was completely fair game. However, the 100 shadow power up Luffy got did not come from his own abilities, and therein lies the difference between both of their power ups. Luffy, with his own abilities, was not capable of achieving the ludicrous level of power he had in his nightmare form; he had to get help from outside interference to attain that high level, so how can you say Luffy is stronger than him? This is why you can't just look at the results when making strength comparisons.

Also, like I suspected, Moria didn't show his full arsenal of moves back at Thriller Bark. Making a shadow lance was pretty creative on his part. I wonder what other tricks he has up sleeve.
No the information we have is luffy fought moria first time moria was fooling around until he get kick then he trick luffy . The second time luffy was fighting oars with moria in him he got knock for while after storm he was not defeated . Cause he got back up for a third and fought luffy while taken in a 1000 shadows and luffy beat him with a gear2 and 3 attack combine.

Because our view on power ups are not the same , oars is not part of moria power , he can control shadows. If luffy was to meet moria in the war right now there is no oars to help him . So moria finding a body of a super giant ,have hogback make a cock pit in him while make sure he is top form also having spiders help steal luffy shadow is fair game but luffy having the will power to hold in 100 shadow is not fair bullshit.

Moria would have not even fight the SH if was not for kuma telling him the WG think he might lose he was going let oars do all the work mean while the SH would gotten the salt in oars mouth . Which means he would still not have him to fight with .

Plus nightmare luffy did not beat moria gear 2 and 3 combine beat him , and if you happen to forget luffy same power up almost total wipe him out of all the power he had he could hardly stand after it .

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Actually, we still haven't seen Hancock in full action. She still has Haoushoku Haki, and whatever that ability can do (besides knock out large amounts of people).

As for Moria, we, or at least I, already assumed that he could form shadow weapons, the only question is what he could do with them (i.e. are they singular weapons; can he split them up into smaller weapons; etc).
If that small pic is right it look like all moria did was make his shadow go up with a point and oars jr fell on it have to wait until the raw is out to see better . If that is so i don't call that forming a weapon .
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Old 2009-08-25, 21:14   Link #79
james0246
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Yeah, forming shadows from weapons was also an ability I've been expecting to see from Moria since TB (though again, I just wish that he revealed that particular ability during the storyline in question). It's nice to know that his powers have that sort of versatility. And hopefully, we'll see Moria make Oars III into his newest zombie slave (provided the giant actually DOES die at the end of this chapter)......
Again, we do not know the limits of this particular ability. Maybe he needs to use his entire shadow to form a "solid" weapon, in which case it wouldn't have been particularly useful anyway in the fight with Luffy. Or, he is unable to form smaller throwable weapons. Or, something else to that effect. We simply do not know the the limits of the ability.
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Old 2009-08-25, 21:21   Link #80
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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No the information we have is luffy fought moria first time moria was fooling around until he get kick then he trick luffy.
Yup, Luffy got one hit on him, but it just irritated him if anything. Are you trying to imply that Moria ran away because he was afraid he would lose? His whole fighting principle is to rely on others while he doesn't have to lift a finger. He outwitted Luffy with his doppleman in his escape so that he could deal with the nuisance without resorting to getting himself involved. That's why he ran away.

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The second time luffy was fighting oars with moria in him he got knock for while after storm he was not defeated .
Yes he was beaten by that point. Zoro himself said that Moria had already lost and that all that was left was a race against time. Shadows Asgard was merely a desperation technique on Moria's part in order to buy more time until the sunrise.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Because our view on power ups are not the same , oars is not part of moria power , he can control shadows.
Reviving the dead is a secondary ability that the shadow fruit is capable of. Only Moria can do this, and therefore using zombies to fight for him is an extension of his power. Controlling zombie minions is part of his power. Why are you trying to argue against this?

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If luffy was to meet moria in the war right now there is no oars to help him .
That's right. And you, nor anyone else, can say with complete certainty that Luffy is stronger than Moria himself. He didn't even get a chance to fight seriously and at peak condition. Luffy took the victory with the aid of a power that doesn't even belong to him. It was Moria and his gang vs. the strawhats, and the strawhats wouldn't have been able to prevail if it wasn't for the assistance of the rolling pirates. The rolling pirates played the role of outside interference and this cannot be denied.
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