AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-02-24, 07:00   Link #21
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
And by the way it make me think that there is something that i don't like at all about USA justice : crimnial court don't hold civil court ! In the end you can be innoncent with the criminal court but not with the civil court ! O_o (that and the fact that everyone now bring suit for absolutely nothing ...).
And sorry for my bad english
I'm not a lawyer by training, but I don't think there is any legal system in the world that allows a criminal court to hear a civil suit. Criminal law is not equal to civil law, meaning to say, I don't see how an accused can be deemed innocent in a criminal court only to be later deemed guilty in civil court. If a case is conducted in a criminal court, it cannot be heard again in civil court.

This seems like a good primer: Differences between civil and criminal law in the United States

Again, I'm no expert in legal matters, so feel free to correct me if need be.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-24, 07:56   Link #22
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Uh no a case can be conducted in criminal court and then in civil court such as an accident. In France the criminal court hold the civil court which means that if the criminal court said there is nothing then the civil court say there is nothing. But in USA it's not the same. I heard that a person was declared innocent by the criminal court but in the end was accused by the civil court It seems that it was a great american football player. Ah yes, it's O. J. Simpson. Well anyway, he is in prison now
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-24, 08:27   Link #23
ZephyrLeanne
On a sabbatical
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I'm not a lawyer by training, but I don't think there is any legal system in the world that allows a criminal court to hear a civil suit. Criminal law is not equal to civil law, meaning to say, I don't see how an accused can be deemed innocent in a criminal court only to be later deemed guilty in civil court. If a case is conducted in a criminal court, it cannot be heard again in civil court.

This seems like a good primer: Differences between civil and criminal law in the United States

Again, I'm no expert in legal matters, so feel free to correct me if need be.
Different systems. Your stance is of a Commonwealth one, not surprising since Singapore was a former British Colony. It's different elsewhere.
ZephyrLeanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-24, 21:35   Link #24
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Uh no a case can be conducted in criminal court and then in civil court such as an accident. In France the criminal court hold the civil court which means that if the criminal court said there is nothing then the civil court say there is nothing. But in USA it's not the same. I heard that a person was declared innocent by the criminal court but in the end was accused by the civil court It seems that it was a great american football player. Ah yes, it's O. J. Simpson. Well anyway, he is in prison now
But on the same charge? Sure, someone can appear in both the criminal and civil courts for one incident, but it's highly likely because of the different charges that arise from it. A criminal court doesn't pronounce verdicts on civil charges, and vice versa.

It's inconceivable for a civil court to hear murder cases (because it lacks the power, under civil law, to mete out appropriate punishment), and it's a waste of time for a criminal court to deliberate on a divorce dispute (it has better things to do, such as putting more criminals on trial). If both sides can hear each other's cases, then what's the point of having separate courts?

=========

As for justice, to me, a just society is one based on meritocracy, where every individual possesses the right to reap the full rewards of his own abilities, the fruit of his own labour. If this right is curtailed, he gets to seek redress through a judicial system that treats everyone as equals before the law.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-24, 23:51   Link #25
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
I used to be a proponent of capital punishment, but then I learned about how Stalin sent people to work in gulags and decided that making would-be death row criminals do heavy labor for the rest of their lives is a much better punishment.
And of course criminals (at least ones who committed such crimes as rape and mutilation) should get inferior food, and in small quantities just to keep them alive and working.

We don't know if there's a hell or not, so it's better to make sure evil people are properly punished.

**************************

More seriously, I believe that justice is only what the law prescribes. I almost never use the word justice when talking seriously about right and wrong, because in my mind I associate it with the rule of law, which is something I consider too rigid to talk about when dealing with such an issue as good or evil.
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 08:10   Link #26
ClockWorkAngel
Aspiring Aspirer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Canada
Age: 22
Send a message via MSN to ClockWorkAngel
But Leo, what if that person was innocent?

Justice is the proper deliverance of punishment, however we can't say that there hasn't been inproper deliverances.
__________________

Credit To Risa-chan!
ClockWorkAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 08:22   Link #27
ZephyrLeanne
On a sabbatical
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 33
I think that capital punishment is unnecessary. Life sentence without parole is bad enough. Think about it.
ZephyrLeanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 14:03   Link #28
Hs Vi Germania
Please call me "senpai":)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to Hs Vi Germania
Capital punishment only belongs to passed times. We all know that it cannot be the right thing because a small group of people makes the laws and a much smaller group achieves them. Everyone can know clamp that a not unimportant of the decided punishes were not correct and it would make everything difficult when the state where you live has to explain himself for killing an innocent person.
__________________
Hs Vi Germania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 21:23   Link #29
kguthrie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Justice would have been a life for a life. Living in prison is in not enough of a punishment for taking someone else's life.
kguthrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 21:34   Link #30
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel View Post
But Leo, what if that person was innocent?
Then is life imprisonment any better?
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-25, 22:09   Link #31
ClockWorkAngel
Aspiring Aspirer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Canada
Age: 22
Send a message via MSN to ClockWorkAngel
Really it depends, do you think a life with limitations placed with the possibility of escape and correlation is better than a quick death? Of course then there's the issue of family and love ones, is it better to die quickly then allow the persecutors say "oops, my bad." or allow them to set you free.

It all depends on your ideals, I know some people who rather die than wait.
__________________

Credit To Risa-chan!
ClockWorkAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-26, 07:45   Link #32
Jazzrat
Bearly Legal
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Justice is an man made concept with it's definition differing by the era, place and people you are looking at.

So asking what is justice is just the same as asking what is right.
Different people will give you a different answer.

To sum it up, Justice is the commonly accepted punishment for socially unacceptable acts.

Offtopic for capital punishments, I m a supporter for that. It's a good deterrent for dangerous acts especially those that with huge impact on others. There's no way you can bring back someone whose been murdered but atleast there's an effective way to remove a potential threat to others.

I prefer my tax money not being wasted on feeding and clothing those who had crossed the moral boundary of killing others. They might had a chance being reintegrated back into society but i think there's better reason out to spend the resource and effort on (education, health and etc).

Different degree of criminal activity requires different level of punishment. For the extreme end, i felt capital punishment is justified.
__________________
Jazzrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-26, 12:14   Link #33
Slice of Life
eyewitness
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
It looks to me as if capital crimes are to some people just welcome opportunities to wallow in revenge fantasies from an only seemingly higher moral ground.
__________________
- Any ideas how to fill this space?
Slice of Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-27, 17:43   Link #34
Tenken's Smile
Eternity Wish
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Sky
Quote:
Originally Posted by black monster View Post
but what really is justice?
is it executing a criminal?
is it even tangible or is it a state of mind?
does it even exist?

i was watching a police show the other day, and at the end when they caught the killer and he is sentenced to 25 to life, the policeman says ' justice was served'
and i thought that is not justice, its making society safer, but not justice .
Wow, if you're already wondering about these things, maybe you should read Death Note (a manga by Ohba Tsugumi) XD


Quote:
The problem with justice is that so many people have many different views on it and what they would deem as "justice" that the correct way of encountering an event is not always the right one.
I agree.

I don't agree that what is "commonly accepted" is justice because the majority's choice is not always the right/moral/fair choice.

To me, Justice is Fairness, in a way, almost like Karma.
Tenken's Smile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-28, 02:20   Link #35
Cipher
.....
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
The obvious answer:There is no "one" justice. Its just one of those many things that depends on perception. I mean I could even count "killing for pleasure"---obvious non-justice to many---justice. But If you want MY real perceptional definition of justice....ask the world's 6.07 billion(not sure) human population.
Cipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-28, 03:42   Link #36
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
It looks to me as if capital crimes are to some people just welcome opportunities to wallow in revenge fantasies from an only seemingly higher moral ground.
I'd support capital punishment for some crimes.... but the legal system gets the wrong guy so often (documented by DNA forensics, re-examination, or exposure of fraudulent prosecution) I can't support it at all. Fix that problem and I might reconsider.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-28, 04:08   Link #37
Kaioshin Sama
Banned
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here nor There
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Kaioshin Sama
Ah Justice, that guiding compass of what has basically become my main route of thought and decision making. What is fair, what is right? I ask myself that question all the time.

Okay so capital punishment. Personally I don't believe in it, primarily because of the chance that a justice system that upholds it could potentially end up sentencing an innocent person to death, which wouldn't be justice at all, but in fact murder by the state. Considering all the wrongfully convicted persons being released from prison and cleared of their charges all the time, the idea that one of those people could instead have to pay the ultimate price for nothing or a lesser charge is too big a risk to allow in my opinion. One that I think far outweighs any notions of justice potentially being exacted on a guilty convict. Remember, a life sentence can be overturned, but a dead person is dead no matter what.
Kaioshin Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-28, 06:45   Link #38
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 26
Justice is eye for an eye, and today's legal systems are just complexions and compromises of that. It's a tool for stabilizing societies that can never be perfect nor always fair, but it's purpose is only to instill a fear of consequences on anyone inclined to commit a crime. And so justice in most countries can be considered successful, or at least worthwhile.
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-28, 07:35   Link #39
Woopzilla
Desensitized
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LV-426
Age: 27
Justice seems to be whatever someone has 'coming for them' for doing something wrong (be it a crime or otherwise). What everyone receives though is a set punishment stated by the law and interpretations of it by the judge.

Humans set the rules and the punishments, and the end result is called 'Justice'. Rules and punishments vary throughout the world, so the idea of justice varies as well.

Karma was mentioned earlier, and I believe justice is similar to it. You have to believe it exists, which most people seem to do (or do so without thinking about it). In order to exist, justice would need to be handed out by nature itself as a result of your actions, and it most cases that would usually be attributed to the many gods people believe in.

Perhaps basic human reactions to a wrongdoing are really the natural 'justice' intended to keep those unhelpful ones in line. I'm of course talking about rather basic instintinctual levels though, as in: "If we still lived in caves, etc.."

In this day and age, we can do nothing but argue and hopefully come to an agreement over which punishments seem suitable for a certain action/crime. Those who agree with the punishments can then say "Justice is served!".
__________________
Tsubasa Hanekawa of Bakemonogatari

Last edited by Woopzilla; 2009-08-28 at 07:46.
Woopzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
justice, philosophy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.