AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Code Geass

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-29, 10:44   Link #1021
fainessae
7 years bad luck
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
I think blade does have a point with the new footage--Sunrise is known for altering lines and changing scenes and such to suit themselves.

But I'd like to think of that moment in Turn 25 as a private moment that only Lelouch remembers about Shirley--one even we the audience didn't get to see. She obviously has her "talking to Lelouch expression" on--her eyes are wide, and her smile is wide. I'd just like to think it's just a moment Lelouch treasured--one that was incredibly normal and natural.

As for Shirley and the tomato... I have no clue. Perhaps though, if Shirley ate it consistently, this is also important. Because it's something that she "always" did, which would be important to Lelouch, given that I think he was looking for consistency in people. But it might also just be that it's cute, and the animators had an inside joke about it. XD We'll never know.

Anyway, as for "Shirley smiling scenes" that they could have pulled for this first shot--the first thing that comes to my mind is actually her little self-satisfied smile in Turn 12 when she at last takes Lelouch's hat. That would have been fine for a smiling scene, and I'm sure there are other examples if you'd rather something not directly related to Lelouch. XD Shirley always had a big grin on her face. So I think it's cute that they reanimated this one--makes it a bit special.
fainessae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-02, 22:08   Link #1022
ImmortalFire
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
I too think that the tomato waving was possibly a part of Shirley's character. A small trait but something important to Lelouch
ImmortalFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-02, 23:39   Link #1023
Kid Ying
Pon pon pon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
putting in the scene from season 1 would have been odd (she's not happy)
putting the scene from turn 5 might have made it looke like suzaku is the main focus point of lelouch's thoughts
hence, making a new picture instead
not all that much to read into it

they also did something similer in turn 21 with C.C's famus "you have to push away those you really love" line
did you see season 1's version ?
not the same line she says at all

or the scene when he pictures nunnaly as euphie extending her hand in ep 6
not the original scene either

they make edits to scenes whenever it suits them or they feel the original scene doesnt work well enough
It's also a way to sell the dvds, with new animation in some scenes and a couple of new lines, everyone will buy, hehe.

About the scene, well, we have TWO instances where Shirley is with a fork and the tomato, so, it's unlikely that they were the only time where Shirley was waving the fork, she probably did that with Lelouch seeing someday... Hehe.
Kid Ying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-05, 21:43   Link #1024
fainessae
7 years bad luck
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Completely randomly off the topic of cherry tomato-wielding Shirley, but I was thinking about her character type, and it struck me that she's very much a shoujo heroine. And I had to laugh, because how funny is that that a shoujo heroine would be stuck in a shounen show. (And it makes me a bit sad, because what a waste... XD)

But Shirley's all about "overcoming unhappiness" and "facing tomorrow" and "healing wounds", and had she lived her character goal would have been to "reunite" what was "broken" which is ridiculously shoujo-heroine-esque. She'd have tried to restore Lelouch and Suzaku's friendship and built a bridge back to Nunnally and who knows what else would have been up her sleeve after that.

But in a shounen anime where the "villain" is the protagonist, a shoujo heroine of course can't survive. Because what does a shoujo heroine do? She rescues the villain. And you can't have that when you're writing a tragedy.

okay, /random
fainessae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-05, 21:47   Link #1025
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
That's certainly an interesting take on the situation. Works pretty well, too.
__________________
morbosfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-05, 22:35   Link #1026
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by fainessae View Post
Completely randomly off the topic of cherry tomato-wielding Shirley, but I was thinking about her character type, and it struck me that she's very much a shoujo heroine. And I had to laugh, because how funny is that that a shoujo heroine would be stuck in a shounen show. (And it makes me a bit sad, because what a waste... XD)

But Shirley's all about "overcoming unhappiness" and "facing tomorrow" and "healing wounds", and had she lived her character goal would have been to "reunite" what was "broken" which is ridiculously shoujo-heroine-esque. She'd have tried to restore Lelouch and Suzaku's friendship and built a bridge back to Nunnally and who knows what else would have been up her sleeve after that.

But in a shounen anime where the "villain" is the protagonist, a shoujo heroine of course can't survive. Because what does a shoujo heroine do? She rescues the villain. And you can't have that when you're writing a tragedy.

okay, /random
As morbos said, an interesting take on the situation and, I'd say, quite accurate. Shirley is very shojo-heroine-ish in nature, though I can't say too much because I haven't really read that many shojo comics. But it does suit her very well. After all, she's a good-natured girl in love with a morally questionable boy and tries to bring out the best in him. Also, she's a high school student and most shojo comics are high school romances.

The problem is though that Shirley was only a shojo heroine and most shojo's are pretty down to earth and don't delve into the larger world (not the high school romance ones anyway) So since she was a high school girl that got caught up in the grandness and ugliness of the larger world she was pretty much doomed, no matter how strong her will to help people was. But bless her heart did that girl try.

Also, I wouldn't really call Code Geass a "Shonen" series. Seinen maybe, but I don't think Code Geass falls under any one specific genre.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-06, 01:50   Link #1027
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by fainessae View Post
Completely randomly off the topic of cherry tomato-wielding Shirley, but I was thinking about her character type, and it struck me that she's very much a shoujo heroine. And I had to laugh, because how funny is that that a shoujo heroine would be stuck in a shounen show. (And it makes me a bit sad, because what a waste... XD)

But Shirley's all about "overcoming unhappiness" and "facing tomorrow" and "healing wounds", and had she lived her character goal would have been to "reunite" what was "broken" which is ridiculously shoujo-heroine-esque. She'd have tried to restore Lelouch and Suzaku's friendship and built a bridge back to Nunnally and who knows what else would have been up her sleeve after that.

But in a shounen anime where the "villain" is the protagonist, a shoujo heroine of course can't survive. Because what does a shoujo heroine do? She rescues the villain. And you can't have that when you're writing a tragedy.

okay, /random
I do like shoujo romance (at least the straighforward kind; none of that 'who do I love' love-triangle nonsense) so this makes a great deal of sense to me. The 'what a waste' sentiment practically embodies how I feel about her character, because I saw exactly all that solid shoujo-esque narrative potential practically built into her character (before her final episode even, I mean--although it certainly made things clearer) and it was all shattered to pieces by her death. I guess it probably is true that Code Geass wasn't a show suited to that type of narrative but before her death, just seeing all those flags of intention and potential there, by god I hoped.

Anyway, though, I do think it was specifically the 'tragedy' part of Code Geass' genre classifications that locked the 'Shirley' route out, not its shounen and/or seinen-ness.

To address the question in that last point: y'know, actually, I think I'd lean Code Geass more towards shounen than seinen. Mainly on account of, despite their occasionally twisted ways of displaying it, the main characters' belief in and actions in support of ideas like 'justice' and 'saving the world' and stuff. Iunno, I just sorta think that anything as idealistic and escapist and self-inflated as 'saving the world' probably doesn't belong in seinen.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 30/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 80/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-08, 15:04   Link #1028
fainessae
7 years bad luck
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I do like shoujo romance (at least the straighforward kind; none of that 'who do I love' love-triangle nonsense) so this makes a great deal of sense to me. The 'what a waste' sentiment practically embodies how I feel about her character, because I saw exactly all that solid shoujo-esque narrative potential practically built into her character (before her final episode even, I mean--although it certainly made things clearer) and it was all shattered to pieces by her death. I guess it probably is true that Code Geass wasn't a show suited to that type of narrative but before her death, just seeing all those flags of intention and potential there, by god I hoped.

Anyway, though, I do think it was specifically the 'tragedy' part of Code Geass' genre classifications that locked the 'Shirley' route out, not its shounen and/or seinen-ness.

To address the question in that last point: y'know, actually, I think I'd lean Code Geass more towards shounen than seinen. Mainly on account of, despite their occasionally twisted ways of displaying it, the main characters' belief in and actions in support of ideas like 'justice' and 'saving the world' and stuff. Iunno, I just sorta think that anything as idealistic and escapist and self-inflated as 'saving the world' probably doesn't belong in seinen.
Oh lol, the shoujo love triangle is just an irritating way to keep a plotless story going (because apparently female readers don't enjoy plot). >_> Good shoujo leaves that silliness out, unless it has a purpose.

I agree that the tragedy aspect (and the fact that the original intention, at least with the first season, was that Lelouch was what in any other story would be the "villain" and the story was told from this villain's perspective) is the main reason why a happier outcome for Shirley wasn't possible. And honestly, I think everyone knew that'd be her fate, which is a bit unfortunate that Sunrise went with such an obvious decision. XD

But I think that's why I enjoy her character so much, even though she didn't get a chance to bloom into someone who could really make things move.

@seinen v. shounen - CG, I'd say, is just the darker end of shounen. It had the opportunity, with the end of season one, to become very seinen, but they chose the idealistic shounen route for R2, which is actually one of my biggest regrets about the show on the whole. I was happiest back in season one, during episodes 23-25, when it was starting to show it's dark underbelly. But no, the "I saved the world, and the world is pretty because of me" ending isn't very seinen at all. XD

Last edited by fainessae; 2009-09-08 at 15:43.
fainessae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-08, 15:20   Link #1029
Kid Ying
Pon pon pon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
Quote:
Originally Posted by fainessae View Post
I agree that the tragedy aspect (and the fact that the original intention, at least with the first season, was that Lelouch was the villain and the story was told from the villain's perspective) is the main reason why a happier outcome for Shirley wasn't possible. And honestly, I think everyone knew that'd be her fate, which is a bit unfortunate that Sunrise went with such an obvious decision. XD
Well, it would be too hard to make other kind of end for her. Lelouch was too sunk in his own abyss to not drag people down. Shirley was the rope that could make him get back, but she couldn't stand his weight and eventually got cut.

It was obvious? Well, maybe... But just because Lelouch was Lelouch. To make something else, only if they changed the way of the character or the series itself. It was obvious because there wasn't another kind of possibility, hehe.

About the seinen, humm... I'm with Sol in this one. To me, Code Geass was a shonen anime with a little bit of seinen... And nothing else. Thank god.
Kid Ying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-08, 15:22   Link #1030
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by fainessae View Post
And honestly, I think everyone knew that'd be her fate, which is a bit unfortunate that Sunrise went with such an obvious decision. XD
I keep hearing this time and time again. Everyone says her death was completely obvious. But not for me it wasn't. Certainly not back in season 1. Maybe it's because I didn't watch Code Geass linearly, but I honestly didn't expect it to happen. I mean, I had a feeling something was going to happen after Turn 12, but I think it was THAT. Really, I just didn't think the CG staff would be that cruel.

Quote:
@seinen v. shounen - CG, I'd say, is just the darker end of shounen. It had the opportunity, with the end of season one, to become very seinen, but they chose the idealistic shounen route for R2, which is actually one of my biggest regrets about the show on the whole. I was happiest back in season one, during episodes 23-25, when it was starting to show it's dark underbelly. But no, the "I saved the world, and the world is pretty because of me" ending isn't very seinen at all. XD
That's the problem is that I haven't really read too much seinen (and by that I mean I've read no seinen XD) But yeah, you do have a point that CG seems to be a very larger-than-life take-on-the-world story (a very dark one, mind you) So yeah, if Death Note is shonen than I guess Code Geass can be too).
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-08, 15:43   Link #1031
fainessae
7 years bad luck
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Hmm, that's kind of surprising, actually, that it wasn't as obvious as I thought what her fate was. You learn something new every day. =) I think for me it was obvious because "regaining lost memories" = "death" seemed a pretty obvious fate for her, as she was a.) not a main character and b.) not influential in any plotline other than Lulu's personal one (unlike CC and Kallen). I knew this after season 1, which was why I switched to the CC/Lulu ship for a while right after the first season, because I thought Shirley was doomed to insignificance and tragedy. XD /fickle

@Nobodyman - from what I've heard of Death Note (although I haven't read it m'self), it has a pretty seinen-style ending, doesn't it? Not a "save the world" one, right? I don't really think there's a distinct "line" between seinen/shounen, just that a story leans toward one or the other. Same with shoujo/josei.
fainessae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-08, 16:02   Link #1032
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by fainessae View Post
Hmm, that's kind of surprising, actually, that it wasn't as obvious as I thought what her fate was. You learn something new every day. =) I think for me it was obvious because "regaining lost memories" = "death" seemed a pretty obvious fate for her, as she was a.) not a main character and b.) not influential in any plotline other than Lulu's personal one (unlike CC and Kallen). I knew this after season 1, which was why I switched to the CC/Lulu ship for a while right after the first season, because I thought Shirley was doomed to insignificance and tragedy. XD /fickle
Well, aren't you just a regular ol' ball of fun? Well, I pretty much fell in love with Shirley within the first 10 episodes (and incidentally it was shortly thereafter I learned of her death) and was totally rooting for her to get with Lelouch. Maybe that's why it was so hard for me to accept.

Quote:
@Nobodyman - from what I've heard of Death Note (although I haven't read it m'self), it has a pretty seinen-style ending, doesn't it? Not a "save the world" one, right? I don't really think there's a distinct "line" between seinen/shounen, just that a story leans toward one or the other. Same with shoujo/josei.
Will you stop screwing with my head about Shonen and Seinen? Pretty soon I'm gonna lose all sense of definition between the two and everything will become ambiguous Deathnote was published in Shonen Jump. That's Shonen enough for me. (BTW, I'd highly recommend reading/watching Deathnote)
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-11, 01:54   Link #1033
Kid Ying
Pon pon pon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
Well, shonen is a more epic and exagerated kind of story, where seinen is a story made from a more realistically point of view and stuff. That's the basic definition.

Death Note, for me, it's quite shonen, with a seinen background. There is some seinen portraits in the series, but Light and L accomplishments and plans are so over the top most of the time that they end up being non credible. That's my opinion, hehe.

Anyway, let's get back to Shirley. Unlike Nobby, i didn't knew that Shirley was going to die, but ever since she started to love Lelouch again in R2, i was expecting. The guy just brings bad luck.
Kid Ying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-11, 15:28   Link #1034
ImmortalFire
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
I never expected her to die either, and even when she regained her love for him I wouldnt have expected her to die. But when she regained her memories I knew that was a very bad thing and I saw her death as a major possibility.
ImmortalFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-12, 09:34   Link #1035
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Another off-topic discussion, but after playing Street Fighter 4 in Japanese, I am now having images of Shirley kicking old Chuck using Spinning Bird Kick, along with Rose and Chun Li in the swimming pool.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-12, 13:40   Link #1036
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Another off-topic discussion, but after playing Street Fighter 4 in Japanese, I am now having images of Shirley kicking old Chuck using Spinning Bird Kick, along with Rose and Chun Li in the swimming pool.
Well, we have already discussed how Shirley's legs are probably quite powerful, what with her being on the swim team and all. So it's quite possible.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-13, 00:18   Link #1037
Paladinoras
Pancakes
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalFire View Post
I never expected her to die either, and even when she regained her love for him I wouldnt have expected her to die. But when she regained her memories I knew that was a very bad thing and I saw her death as a major possibility.
The moment she ran back into the mall, I knew she was a goner. I did not really know who would kill her, be it Orenji-kun or something else, but I pretty much knew at that point she won't be coming out of the mall alive.

Didn't expect Rolo to do it though. The "incest" obsessed boy.
__________________


Credit to Godlike1889 for the sig!
Paladinoras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-13, 00:21   Link #1038
ImmortalFire
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
The moment she ran back into the mall, I knew she was a goner. I did not really know who would kill her, be it Orenji-kun or something else, but I pretty much knew at that point she won't be coming out of the mall alive.

Didn't expect Rolo to do it though. The "incest" obsessed boy.
I kinda stuck to a vain hope that maybe she would live, alas it was not be. I did know she was probbly gonna die but I still hoped.

And yeah, I didnt expect that either. Up until that point I had kinda liked Rolo, but that made me stop liking him.
ImmortalFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-13, 00:23   Link #1039
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
It was really pathetic how a lot of people made crackpot theories as to how Rolo wasn't her killer.

Which made it such a brutal slap to their faces when at the start of the next episode, Rolo was like "Oh yeah, nii-san, I was the one who shot your girlfriend."
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-13, 00:27   Link #1040
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
I actually never doubted Rolo had it in him.
Especially since from everyone in the student council (save Lelouch) she was closest to Rolo... or more like, she had the largest potential to get through to him.
Since it's Shirley, that just had to end bloody. xD
I still adore him, though.
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.