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Old 2009-08-27, 04:18   Link #41
Kogetsu Shirogane
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And that wasn't really all that fair a judgment to begin with. If Koizumi were a girl, Kyon would've been a lot less antagonistic towards "her." Frankly, Koizumi is allowed to screw with Kyon whenever he wants in my book.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-08-30, 15:06   Link #42
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i havent started 2nd season yet but hes my fav char
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Old 2009-08-30, 15:21   Link #43
Takamura Mamoru
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Koizumi is interesting because he's so shady. You simply don't know what's behind his facade. You don't know when he's serious or when he's trolling. You don't now why it seems like he's stalking Kyon. After 9 novels, you still basically don't know anything about him.

Of course, that just fits right, since he's the "mysterious transfer student". Of course he has to be shady. The only question is if he's doing that intentionally and if not, wether her realizes that he fits his role.

Sometimes it looks like he's just a normal guy under everything, though.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:40   Link #44
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I myself believe Itsuki's "shady" personality comes from his experience of becoming an esper.

Spoiler for Disappearance:


His loyalty to Haruhi might be natural though. Something we don't know?
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:47   Link #45
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His loyalty to Haruhi might be natural though. Something we don't know?
I always figured he had feelings for her.
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Old 2009-08-30, 17:00   Link #46
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Spoiler for Disappearance:
Spoiler for Volume 4:
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Old 2009-08-30, 17:31   Link #47
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Spoiler for Same:
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Old 2009-09-02, 13:08   Link #48
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Conversation has dead-ended; let's try a different track.

We know little to nothing about Koizumi's background and family situation. In Sighs, the scene by the pond is described as being "near Koizumi-kun's place", but it's never specified whether it's his apartment alone or his family's. (And despite its close proximity, they head to Tsuruya's house afterward instead of his.) He himself has never mentioned anything, aside from the small mention in Melancholy that:

"I don't know what really happened three years ago. All I do know is, I suddenly realized I possessed paranormal powers one day three years ago. I was really scared; I didn't know what to do. Luckily for me, it wasn't long before the 'Organization' took me in, or I would've killed myself thinking something was wrong with my brain."

(The official translation from Little, Brown writes the phrase in bold above as "The Agency soon took me in and gave me guidance".)

I've seen a couple different suggestions with (as far as I know) no real support to back them up -- one, that Koizumi was orphaned at some point and has no other family, thus the Organization literally "adopting" him so to speak. Another is that the Organization kidnapped him once they realized what he was. Another possibility might be that his family became part of the Organization after that day three (four) years ago. Or maybe, if he does indeed have a family, they're completely unaware of his powers and his connection with a frighteningly powerful and manipulative secret society.

What do you think? Are there other possibilities? Koizumi suggests that gaining esper powers was akin to winning the lottery -- random, with no other prerequisites. But do you suppose that Haruhi (assuming the theory that Haruhi-is-god and thus is responsible for the creation of espers) could have leaned more towards a certain type of person than another? That is, could she have preferred a tragic backstory for her chosen espers (those who became espers were orphans or had really horrible childhoods or some other heart-rending history) or a completely normal one (everyone she chose was utterly normal, with typical family and typical interests, that just happened to have bizarreness thrust upon them)?

Obviously, until we learn more from Word of God, this is all just speculation, but I'm curious about other thoughts on the matter.

Last edited by worldruined; 2009-09-10 at 22:44.
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Old 2009-09-02, 14:33   Link #49
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I pretty sure in one of the later stories he admits that he lives alone. He's never talked about his family, but from what I understand, it seem likely to me that they're still alive. Perhaps when he discovered his powers, his family was helpless to help deal with them until the organization came along and offered to help in exchange for him joining them.
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Old 2009-09-02, 16:16   Link #50
Volcanic
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Now this is a conversation topic I like

Koizumi's daily life would be interesting to get into. We've been to Yuki's apartment a couple times, and Mikuru is established to be from the future and thus living alone, but other than the mention above, we know nothing about Koizumi

Until that mention, I thought we'd have a story sometime where we went to his house and it was completely normal, and his parents were all "We're so happy he has someone coming over, that hasn't happened in three years!" xD

But yeah, Koizumi's so calm and collected he must have stayed with the Organization for at least a little while and learned to be...so shady.
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Old 2009-09-02, 16:25   Link #51
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Four years now.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-09-08, 03:03   Link #52
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Request...

I don't know if I'm allowed to, but I'd like to request something:
Could someone please write down Koizumi's rank in the SOS Brigade (Vice Commander/Leader) in Japanese for me? If possible in roman letters...
I've already searched for it, but I couldn'd find it anywhere... Thank you!
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Old 2009-09-08, 19:01   Link #53
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Not to confuse topics here, but Koizumi's description of figuring out that he was an esper is not entirely unlike the coming-out stories of several gay people.

As for the other theories about his family, going back to the idea that he's gay, it wouldn't be unheard of (although certainly a very sad story) for a family to cut off their gay children.
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Old 2009-09-10, 23:48   Link #54
worldruined
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
I pretty sure in one of the later stories he admits that he lives alone.
Hmm, I don't remember him admitting that he lives alone, but then, maybe that's why he doesn't seem completely adverse to ending up with Shami-ni. A cat's company is better than nothing at all! I'd love it if someone could track down the source for me!

Spoiler for Where Did the Cat Go?:


Something I'd forgotten in my original post is that in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, one of Koizumi's wishes has to do with "family" -- the Baka-Tsuki novel translation uses "harmonious family", while the anime subs say "the safety of my family" (DB_L-E) and "the peace and prosperity of my family" (a.f.k). The manga adaption uses the same phrase as the a.f.k sub. At first remembrance, I thought this meant that yes, Koizumi must have family somewhere (involved in the Organization or not), but then I figured... if he was obeying Haruhi's orders about making wishes that could be granted 16 or 25 years in the future, those could be about his own future family, which is also kind of interesting to consider. (Koizumi wants to have kids?) Alternatively, it could also maybe mean a metaphorical "family", within the Organization? (Mori-san?)


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Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
He's never talked about his family, but from what I understand, it seem likely to me that they're still alive. Perhaps when he discovered his powers, his family was helpless to help deal with them until the organization came along and offered to help in exchange for him joining them.
Temporary custody, maybe? Or more like a boarding school of sorts? If they're alive, I wonder if he just doesn't like talking about it, if he's kept silenced by an NDA of sorts, or if it's just that no one's ever really asked him? (And before anyone says "Kyon doesn't care", Kyon does too care, in fact he's stated multiple times that he's actually pretty curious about the Organization and all that, but that he knows that if he asks and Koizumi doesn't want to or can't answer him, he'll just get the run-around. So he's resigned himself to waiting until someone offers the information.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Koizumi's daily life would be interesting to get into. We've been to Yuki's apartment a couple times, and Mikuru is established to be from the future and thus living alone, but other than the mention above, we know nothing about Koizumi
I agree, it really is something I'd like to know more about. I just hope we don't have to wait for, say, The Awakening of Koizumi Itsuki: Episode 00 before we get it. XD

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Originally Posted by Volcanic View Post
Until that mention, I thought we'd have a story sometime where we went to his house and it was completely normal, and his parents were all "We're so happy he has someone coming over, that hasn't happened in three years!" xD
His parents must think he's an absolute delinquent, staying out all hours of the night, disappearing randomly in large black taxis that always show up at exactly the right moment... I suppose he'd come up with an excuse for that (or the Organization would).

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But yeah, Koizumi's so calm and collected he must have stayed with the Organization for at least a little while and learned to be...so shady.
Brainwashed? XD?

I honestly think there's something not quite right about him psychologically -- he's stated during one of his more serious talks with Kyon that even he's not sure when he started wearing his "mask". That seems to indicate that it probably didn't happen right when he transferred, because he would have remembered that. So it probably started before, but how long before is a mystery. Is it something he learned to do after the Organization scooped him up? Something he was started pre-Organization but post-esper powers, a kind of defense mechanism so that other people wouldn't think he was a complete freak?

Hm... I have to admit that I'm a little against the word "shady" to describe him. He, as much as Nagato and as much as Asahina-san, is still a puppet of his parent faction, so I think it's more that the Organization is shady rather than Koizumi, himself, being shady. A lot of what he does and says could be done and said on orders from his superiors, not necessarily because he wants to screw with Kyon's mind. It's true that he seems to have more freedom to work within those confines (he doesn't have to answer to any Data Overmind, and he's not a slave to maintaining the future), but he's nonetheless a subordinate, not a free agent.

(This brings up an interesting thought -- if and when his promise to Kyon about "standing by his side" and choosing the Brigade over the Organization needs to be fulfilled, just how is the Organization going to take that? If they're anywhere near as violent as Koizumi has hinted, it might not end well for him if he decides to defect. Not only would the Organization be losing their agent currently closest to Haruhi, they'd also be losing one of their prized espers. He's never been guaranteed the same protection the girls have (Haruhi is, you know, Haruhi; Kyon blackmailed Nagato's boss to keep her safe; assuming the future remains unchanged, (big) Asahina-san's existence would mean that nothing befalls her either), so of all of them to meet a Bad End, it might be him...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by yankervitch View Post
Not to confuse topics here, but Koizumi's description of figuring out that he was an esper is not entirely unlike the coming-out stories of several gay people.

As for the other theories about his family, going back to the idea that he's gay, it wouldn't be unheard of (although certainly a very sad story) for a family to cut off their gay children.
That's... kind of an interesting thought? You have to figure, though, that Koizumi was, what, twelve-ish when he received his powers? (Give or take a year, depending on what you figure his current age to be. I don't know if it's ever explicitly stated. I've also read at least one rumor that I think called into question whether or not he's even the age he pretends to be; older or younger than a typical first year high schooler? Who knows!) Anyway, cutting off a twelve year old seems a little harsh, whether gay or esper or both. If he had been older, that'd be a little different, I think.


Edit Yes, I tl;dr. Frequently. I'm allowed to do that in the Koizumi thread, right?

Last edited by worldruined; 2009-09-11 at 00:04.
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Old 2009-09-15, 00:07   Link #55
quigonkenny
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Spoiler for Where Did the Cat Go?:
Spoiler for NekoDoko:

Quote:
Originally Posted by worldruined View Post
Brainwashed? XD?

I honestly think there's something not quite right about him psychologically -- he's stated during one of his more serious talks with Kyon that even he's not sure when he started wearing his "mask". That seems to indicate that it probably didn't happen right when he transferred, because he would have remembered that. So it probably started before, but how long before is a mystery. Is it something he learned to do after the Organization scooped him up? Something he was started pre-Organization but post-esper powers, a kind of defense mechanism so that other people wouldn't think he was a complete freak?
I always took Itsuki being "not sure when he started wearing his mask" as his typical martyr complex hyperbole. His sexuality may still be quite up in the air, but there's no question he's something of a drama queen...

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Hm... I have to admit that I'm a little against the word "shady" to describe him. He, as much as Nagato and as much as Asahina-san, is still a puppet of his parent faction, so I think it's more that the Organization is shady rather than Koizumi, himself, being shady. A lot of what he does and says could be done and said on orders from his superiors, not necessarily because he wants to screw with Kyon's mind. It's true that he seems to have more freedom to work within those confines (he doesn't have to answer to any Data Overmind, and he's not a slave to maintaining the future), but he's nonetheless a subordinate, not a free agent.

(This brings up an interesting thought -- if and when his promise to Kyon about "standing by his side" and choosing the Brigade over the Organization needs to be fulfilled, just how is the Organization going to take that? If they're anywhere near as violent as Koizumi has hinted, it might not end well for him if he decides to defect. Not only would the Organization be losing their agent currently closest to Haruhi, they'd also be losing one of their prized espers. He's never been guaranteed the same protection the girls have (Haruhi is, you know, Haruhi; Kyon blackmailed Nagato's boss to keep her safe; assuming the future remains unchanged, (big) Asahina-san's existence would mean that nothing befalls her either), so of all of them to meet a Bad End, it might be him...)
Why do you assume his promise to Kyon wasn't suggested by his supervisors in the Organization? If I remember the context correctly, he told Kyon this after the events of Disappearance, where Kyon became closer to Yuki, and Melancholy of Asahina, where Kyon's already protective nature toward Mikuru got another boost. I know it's rather a cynical way to view Itsuki, but it makes sense to take anything that a character who willingly volunteers that his outward persona is a "mask" says about his loyalties with a large grain of salt.

Itsuki is, after all, the character most likely to willingly turn against Kyon should his superiors deem it necessary. Note that I don't suggest he is the one most likely to turn against him (although I do believe that, personally). Yuki is very obviously in love with Kyon, but if the Overmind decides it's time to cash that card, her will in the matter may be irrelevant. Similarly, Mikuru's superiors may eventually find Kyon's temporal influence too dangerous to allow, leaving Mikuru(either) the unhappy choice of betrayal versus non-existence. But Itsuki has as much as stated that he personally resents Kyon's relationship with Haruhi. Should the situation arise where he has the chance to remove Kyon and elevate himself without endangering his personal status-quo, do you really think he wouldn't take it? That's a bit shady, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worldruined View Post
Edit Yes, I tl;dr. Frequently. I'm allowed to do that in the Koizumi thread, right?
It's more appropriate here than probably anywhere else on the 'net... ^_^
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Old 2009-09-16, 18:01   Link #56
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itsuki has brown hair
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Old 2009-09-17, 02:40   Link #57
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Uhm. Thanks for the very obvious statement.
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Old 2009-09-20, 09:09   Link #58
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Personally, my interpretation of Koizumi makes him the most stressed member of the SOS Brigade, even moreso than Mikuru and Kyon.

First of all, he has to handle everything the SOS Brigade does, as well as normal school life. On top of that, HE masterminded the
Spoiler:
as well as handling the closed spaces.

And now for the behind the scenes workings of the Organization itself. We know they have power and influence, and Koizumi has admitted to Kyon (in Sighs) that there have been many infights and wars amoung their members. I beleive it is entirely possible that the Organization had no intention of placing Koizumi in the SOS Brigade, but rather, Itsuki transfered to North High to save himself from any attacks against him. After all, once Haruhi took interest in him, that was it. No Esper is going to touch him in fear of Haruhi's retaliation. Didn't Koizumi explain that "I didn't intend to transfer so suddenly, but circumstances have changed." Koizumi might have placed himself in North High without Organization consent, and thus ensured his own safety.
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Old 2009-09-20, 17:11   Link #59
Kogetsu Shirogane
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That is an interesting theory. After all, while Nagato's position could be argued, Mikuru didn't seem like she was supposed to be found by Haruhi.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-09-20, 18:32   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
That is an interesting theory. After all, while Nagato's position could be argued, Mikuru didn't seem like she was supposed to be found by Haruhi.
Mikuru didn't thinks she was suppose to. However, her bosses most likely did. She(Big) probably just told then, anyway. Actually, the Organization are the only ones who have no means to know what is going to happen in the future.
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