AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Monogatari Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-31, 11:46   Link #81
Xhokhusmak
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
She's not that complex or unique, Hollywood has done movies with characters like these.
Xhokhusmak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 11:56   Link #82
Zetsubo
著述遮断
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhokhusmak View Post
She's not that complex or unique, Hollywood has done movies with characters like these.
name one ?
Zetsubo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 12:52   Link #83
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Something about the eyes and the way she tilts her head....

But yeah.. some of the wittiest sparring dialog I've seen in an anime.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 13:36   Link #84
Velsy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Something about the eyes and the way she tilts her head....

But yeah.. some of the wittiest sparring dialog I've seen in an anime.
Two of major factors I've loved about her ^_^

Shes made the series stand out to me.
__________________

Donated by Om Nerabdator
Velsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 20:15   Link #85
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
One key element to Senjougahara's character: She's impeccably calm, cool, and collected. It's not just anybody that could look at a person she loves in a bloody horrific mess and not even bat an eye-lash. She's done this at least twice now with Araragi, so I think we can say that this is a key aspect to her character.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 20:17   Link #86
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
I can't wait until people start labeling her a sociopath.

Wait, didn't someone here already do that? Before we had a subforum?
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 20:19   Link #87
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I can't wait until people start labeling her a sociopath.

Wait, didn't someone here already do that? Before we had a subforum?
Since her "heaviness" has been restored, she hasn't struck me as sociopathic. Not yet, anyway.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 20:22   Link #88
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
She still wields her school supplies.... but her love interest regenerates
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 20:27   Link #89
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
She still wields her school supplies.... but her love interest regenerates
That won't time she threatened to poke a hole through Araragi's eye struck me as very cold and cruel... but she may have been bluffing. May have been.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 22:00   Link #90
TinyRedLeaf
On indefinite hiatus
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Given what we've seen in the latest episode, it's interesting that Senjougahara before the crab was, in fact, very different from Senjougahara after the crab. This is something that Hanekawa had also alluded to in the first episode.

After all, if Senjougahara had been as coldly aloof in middle school as she was in high school, she wouldn't have been as popular. Middle-school Senjougahara appeared more cheerful, more affirmative, more caring for others. She even took the initiative to meet other people she found interesting, to check out fellow rivals in athletics and sports.

If you think about it, every character who encountered an oddity has been permanently scarred in one way or another. Araragi remains a nascent vampire; Hanekawa apparently suffers from inadvertent promiscuity; Hachikuji still floats among mortals; Kanbaru's left arm stays horribly disfigured.

So, in Senjougahara's case, some parts of her original personality never returned. It's just as Oshino had warned: Things won't go back to normal even though she got her weight/memories back. She's still missing her emotions, something she's now struggling, bit by bit, to recover.

I'm tempted to think of all these oddities, and their effects, as allusions to adolescence and growing up. Strip them away, and what we get is in fact a straightforward otaku-based story that involves themes familiar to most teenagers. The way we were before we became adults, the sometimes painful angst we went through, and the end result of that growing up process — that has all been expressed here through clever wordplay.

And some things, like annoying acne scars, will never go away. They just become part of the collection of things that give us "character".

It's just that, for the new Senjougahara, it comes with added spice (and spite).
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-31, 22:57   Link #91
hei
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I'm tempted to think of all these oddities, and their effects, as allusions to adolescence and growing up. Strip them away, and what we get is in fact a straightforward otaku-based story that involves themes familiar to most teenagers. The way we were before we became adults, the sometimes painful angst we went through, and the end result of that growing up process — that has all been expressed here through clever wordplay.
I totally agree on the point that Bakemonogatari is basically about growing up of youth. It's not only Senjogahara. Most main characters face a difficulty (or an oddity), suffer from it, and eventually overcome it. However the story does not stop here. Overcoming dose not mean growing-up in Bakemonogatari. They should get on with remained scar. It's Shinobu for Araragi's case, missing emotions for Senjogahara, and hairy arm for Kanbaru. They grow up when they accept and embrace their respective scar. For me, this is where Bakemonogatari differ from typical shonen stories.

Last edited by hei; 2009-08-31 at 23:08.
hei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 00:14   Link #92
Ninjacat
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the frozen wastes of the Province of Quebec, Canada.
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
So, in Senjougahara's case, some parts of her original personality never returned. It's just as Oshino had warned: Things won't go back to normal even though she got her weight/memories back. She's still missing her emotions, something she's now struggling, bit by bit, to recover.
In good part it has more to do with the extended disease, then the attempted rape with her mother's blessing. Things like this will do unspeakable things to someone's psyche. Hitagi coped with all that by... shutting down emotionally.

She is a sociopath, she just wasn't born that way.

In Bakemonogatari, the real monsters have human faces.
Ninjacat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 03:39   Link #93
TinyRedLeaf
On indefinite hiatus
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjacat View Post
She is a sociopath, she just wasn't born that way.
The World's Health Organization's definition of dissocial personality disorder/sociopathy:
  1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of capacity for empathy.
  2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
  3. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.
  4. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
  5. Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
  6. Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalisations for the behaviour bringing the subject into conflict.
  7. Persistent irritability.

My goodness... Senjougahara fits almost all of the above descriptions to a T.

My condolences, Ararararagi-kun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjacat View Post
In Bakemonogatari, the real monsters have human faces.
Interesting observation. That further supports my views about why the splicing of real-life photography into the animation has been effectively done.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 03:43   Link #94
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Half of the character types in anime fit half the things on that list.

We've been through this over on the Haruhi subforum. That was my point earlier. It's stupid to use that list to insult characters like that, and goes nowhere.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 04:39   Link #95
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Half of the character types in anime fit half the things on that list.
Well, thanks to harem anime, there's a fair number of anime characters that would be considered sociopaths in real life.


Anyway, in the case of Hitagi, I'm really not seeing some of these to begin with. Looking at this WHO list...


1. Hitagi cares about Araragi. She also showed caring for Kanbaru. Hitagi has empathy... she's just not the sort of person to express it profusely.

2. I don't see much evidence of Hitagi being a real irresponsible rebel. Actually, it's pretty responsible how she keeps coming to Araragi's aid.

3. Well... Hitagi seems to be doing Ok so far in maintaining her relationship with Araragi.


4 and 7 I'll say are valid. But 2 out of 7 is nowhere near enough to say "Yeah, that classification fits."
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 08:14   Link #96
rocket
Senior and Demented
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
So, in Senjougahara's case, some parts of her original personality never returned. It's just as Oshino had warned: Things won't go back to normal even though she got her weight/memories back. She's still missing her emotions, something she's now struggling, bit by bit, to recover.
I don't believe Senjougahara is missing her emotions. She feels sufficient concern for Araragi to
Spoiler for ep8:
She was tender
Spoiler for ep7:
She feels sufficient jealousy to
Spoiler for ep6:
She even goes so far as to
Spoiler for ep5:


If anything I'd say she's lost the knack for expressing emotions, at least in socially acceptable ways. Or possibly even enjoys her unconventional way of interacting with the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I'm tempted to think of all these oddities, and their effects, as allusions to adolescence and growing up. Strip them away, and what we get is in fact a straightforward otaku-based story that involves themes familiar to most teenagers. The way we were before we became adults, the sometimes painful angst we went through, and the end result of that growing up process that has all been expressed here through clever wordplay.
*Nod, nod* Once again I think you've got this series pegged. As another one of my friends has observed, this is one of the few anime stories where it is absolutely essential that the characters be teenagers. It's not just about the sailor uniforms, it's about the character development. Come to think of it, it even justifies Hachikuji as more than token loli - it'd have less impact if a story about parental independence/loss of home with teens.
__________________
rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 09:01   Link #97
Zetsubo
著述遮断
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket View Post
I don't believe Senjougahara is missing her emotions. She feels sufficient concern for Araragi to
Spoiler for ep8:
She was tender
Spoiler for ep7:
She feels sufficient jealousy to
Spoiler for ep6:
She even goes so far as to
Spoiler for ep5:


If anything I'd say she's lost the knack for expressing emotions, at least in socially acceptable ways. Or possibly even enjoys her unconventional way of interacting with the world.



*Nod, nod* Once again I think you've got this series pegged. As another one of my friends has observed, this is one of the few anime stories where it is absolutely essential that the characters be teenagers. It's not just about the sailor uniforms, it's about the character development. Come to think of it, it even justifies Hachikuji as more than token loli - it'd have less impact if a story about parental independence/loss of home with teens.
Sometimes you can tell when an author wants to help his readers by telling a story.

Having teen-aged characters makes it possible to help those who are youngest and apparently easiest to influence.

This story could well be applied to adults even in their late 20's or more... with few adjustments. The thing is the reach and effect would be less.

Adults tend to think too much of themselves and we are more jaded once we pass 25. Less influenced even by positive stories.

It is as if we feel the author is being totally pretentious when in truth we are the ones who are being pretentious.

I give this author a good rate for his ability to really craft a story that is fantastical but realistic and applicable at the same time.

You just have to think about it some.

Which oddly is the reason alot of people I see on bb's dropped Bakemonogatari.

They just don't "get it"

I can't fault them.

They are still at their young, want to see chicks with guns fight as well as ninja or shinigami with overly ridiculous and unnecessarily convoluted story plot lines, pulp fiction entertainment stage.

I wonder why shows like Welcome to the NHK never got much top billing.
Zetsubo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 11:41   Link #98
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
rocket beat me to it.... I don't think its that she's lost the emotions themselves, but that she lost the *tools* and *techniques* of expressing them properly. There's also the nature of Hitagi+Araragi which isn't really *that* unusual in the real world: sparring love duel between two equally powerful people.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 11:52   Link #99
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Hitagi is simply reserved/subtle (with the exception of bold acts/statements every now and then) in how she expresses her feelings. You could even call it classy, perhaps. Overall, I like it. Quite ironically, she's like the anti-tsundere. Her sweet moments are transparent but calm (she doesn't hide her feelings; she just doesn't exclaim them loudly or bashfully/shyly). Her harsh moments are like stoic ice compared to the raging fire of a tsundere.

You know what she's like? She's almost like a female bishonen - like Byakuya (Bleach) or Sesshomaru (InuYasha) made female.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-01, 13:58   Link #100
Zetsubo
著述遮断
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
we also have to remember that Hitagi did grow up as a rich girl... so she may have alot of that rich stoic/classy nature ingrained into her personality from early.
Zetsubo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tsundere

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.