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Old 2009-09-01, 08:41   Link #2021
Dlanor .A. Nox
The Death!
 
 
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For the second killing with Hideyoshi and the closed room in Ep 5.

Spoiler for Theory:


Of course feel free to shoot it down.
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Old 2009-09-01, 08:44   Link #2022
Tjfarmer
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Quote:
so this person has to be incredibly adept at making plans on the spot.
Kyrie = Mastermind confirmed
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Old 2009-09-01, 08:48   Link #2023
Dlanor .A. Nox
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I can sort of imagine Kyrie being the true killer I often thought of the moment where she admits it to a dying Battler in my head lol.
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Old 2009-09-01, 12:56   Link #2024
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox View Post
For the second killing with Hideyoshi and the closed room in Ep 5.

Spoiler for Theory:


Of course feel free to shoot it down.
I've been thinking about this possibility but there's a problem

Spoiler for ep5:
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Old 2009-09-01, 17:55   Link #2025
Dlanor .A. Nox
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Spoiler for Response:


There are alot of ifs and buts in it.
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Old 2009-09-01, 19:30   Link #2026
Rias
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Serious inquiry: Possibility of Furudo Erika being the culprit.

Before anyone say anything:
Yes, I know about the red texts. Yes, I know about Knox #1&7. Yes, I know ura-tea party heavily hints that Battler is the one did it.

Spoiler for Intro:

Spoiler for Suspicious nature:


Spoiler for red text defence:


Spoiler for serious analysis and speculation of the possibility:


As argued, Erika isn't complete off the hook. Perhaps no one is ever off the hook unless they died before the game happened (then you get the whole legacy-murder possiblity).
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Old 2009-09-01, 20:20   Link #2027
Kaiba
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#2 Furudo Erika and the "Erika" who showed up on Rokkenjima are not the same person.
Furudo Erika only increased the head count by one
And I'll admit that I don't like the idea and would view it as mostly a cop-out to label her. The two witches do seem to view everything as one giant game, with appropriate moves like bringing in Ange and Erika between the various games. Due to that, I do in fact view Erika as a newcomer and hence count her out.

That said, a question I have about her:

Spoiler for Erika and Shkanon:
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Old 2009-09-01, 20:28   Link #2028
Megaolix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Furudo Erika only increased the head count by one
And I'll admit that I don't like the idea and would view it as mostly a cop-out to label her. The two witches do seem to view everything as one giant game, with appropriate moves like bringing in Ange and Erika between the various games. Due to that, I do in fact view Erika as a newcomer and hence count her out.

That said, a question I have about her:

Spoiler for Erika and Shkanon:
I think there's a scene in Ep. 5 with everyone in the same room. None is missing.

Also Antera Caramichael, aout what you said on the chapel key...

Spoiler for Episode 2:
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Last edited by Megaolix; 2009-09-01 at 20:46.
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Old 2009-09-01, 22:07   Link #2029
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rias View Post
Serious inquiry: Possibility of Furudo Erika being the culprit.

Before anyone say anything:
Yes, I know about the red texts. Yes, I know about Knox #1&7. Yes, I know ura-tea party heavily hints that Battler is the one did it.

Spoiler for Intro:

Spoiler for Suspicious nature:


Spoiler for red text defence:


Spoiler for serious analysis and speculation of the possibility:


As argued, Erika isn't complete off the hook. Perhaps no one is ever off the hook unless they died before the game happened (then you get the whole legacy-murder possiblity).
Spoiler for episode5:
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Old 2009-09-01, 23:36   Link #2030
Rias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Furudo Erika only increased the head count by one
And I'll admit that I don't like the idea and would view it as mostly a cop-out to label her. The two witches do seem to view everything as one giant game, with appropriate moves like bringing in Ange and Erika between the various games. Due to that, I do in fact view Erika as a newcomer and hence count her out.

That said, a question I have about her:

Spoiler for Erika and Shkanon:
1. Like I said, while meta is one giant game, the "real life" portion isn't. Just as the deaths and order aren't related to each other. Besides, it's the first time LD set up as the gamemaster of the board.

2. Furudo Erika increasing count doesn't matter. Furudo Erika (meta) doesn't have to be the same as Furudo Erika (real world). Just like meta-Battler doesn't necessary equal to real life Battler, even in ep1~4.

Side: Shannon=Kanon theory is still alive. I've already aruged it about 10 pages back. It even got a bit bigger becuase of the analysis of the red text regarding Shannon and autumn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for episode5:
Because Berun is in control of piece-Battler from time to time (smart comments and support of Erika), and LD also controls piece-Battler from time to time (Kinzo's study)
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Old 2009-09-02, 01:09   Link #2031
Marina2
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May I ask something?

If "Shannon=Kanon " theory is real, what does it affect the story? (Number of people change??)

P.S. You can give me a link to this theory's detail (I'm never read about this theory)
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Old 2009-09-02, 01:30   Link #2032
Diedrupo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
May I ask something?

If "Shannon=Kanon " theory is real, what does it affect the story? (Number of people change??)

P.S. You can give me a link to this theory's detail (I'm never read about this theory)
That theory is so laughable that it shouldn't even really be mentioned anymore. You might as well claim Battler and Ange are the same person.
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Old 2009-09-02, 05:15   Link #2033
Volcanic
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
May I ask something?

If "Shannon=Kanon " theory is real, what does it affect the story? (Number of people change??)

P.S. You can give me a link to this theory's detail (I'm never read about this theory)
Well, it's a crack theory from Umineko's early days, (aka around EP2) that pretty much argues Shannon and Kanon are the same person. It didn't become popular until EP3 when the person limit was introduced.

Not only do Shannon and Kanon look oddly alike, (same facial structure) until EP5, Battler had never seen them in the same room. Since Erika's POV is the only one to be trusted in EP5, though, Ryukishi did a thing with them in the same room from Battler's POV as a red herring xDDD

Basically, the theory is Shannon\Kanon doesn't exist or died so Kanon\Shannon dresses up as them. It would lower the person limit and give way for a Person X, but it would also ruin our canon ships. xDD

Last edited by Volcanic; 2009-09-02 at 07:31.
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:45   Link #2034
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rias View Post
Because Berun is in control of piece-Battler from time to time (smart comments and support of Erika), and LD also controls piece-Battler from time to time (Kinzo's study)
Yeah, and how that isn't magic? How do you explain people being controlled by supernatural entities from an anti-fantasy perspective?
From an anti-fantasy perspective you can't say that, you need to imagine they did all those things by their own will, but those behaviors are completely at odd with rationality.
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Old 2009-09-02, 16:46   Link #2035
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Yeah, and how that isn't magic? How do you explain people being controlled by supernatural entities from an anti-fantasy perspective?
From an anti-fantasy perspective you can't say that, you need to imagine they did all those things by their own will, but those behaviors are completely at odd with rationality.
Not necessarily.
Let's say that a nearly infinite number of kakera exist, each with a different possibility. If the witches have some leeway to choose which kakera the games take place in, then they can "control" certain actions as long as those actions could possibly be logically consistent. Though the characters' behaviors might not seem consistent at a glance, there could be hidden factors and missing scenes that explain most of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for episode5:
Well, I don't think it's quite that simple. Again, remember what Ronove said at the beginning about this game "having no love".
Put that together with my meta world theory. There's a chance that Ronove was referring to the large number of "falsehoods" in EP5. That means there's likely to be several scenes that are simply not true (probably every scene where pieces talk to the Meta World). However, I'm pretty sure that a huge part of the game is at least close to the truth, or Ryuukishi wouldn't have made a core arc out of it.


Here's a bit of my crazy theory to try and explain Erika's actions in EP5. Again, just a theory. (Sorry it's a bit rushed, busy with translation stuff)

Spoiler for Erika is the 'culprit' theory:


Spoiler for how to beat the red:
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Old 2009-09-02, 17:12   Link #2036
Jan-Poo
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Spoiler for episode5:
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Old 2009-09-02, 18:40   Link #2037
chronotrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for episode5:
Spoiler for chessboard theory:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for episode5:
Spoiler for like in the tanabata tip...:


Spoiler for is it really that unlikely?:
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Old 2009-09-03, 07:46   Link #2038
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Spoiler for chessboard theory:
Spoiler for Episode5:
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2009-09-03 at 08:09.
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Old 2009-09-03, 11:30   Link #2039
chronotrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for Episode5:
Spoiler for .:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for Episode5:
Spoiler for .:


Edit: Of course, if you subscribe to certain other Kakera theories, you can get a different explanation. It's not necessarily true that each kakera is a different universe.
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Old 2009-09-03, 12:29   Link #2040
Marina2
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So.... Whose hand is in Erika's portrait?

Spoiler for ep.5:
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