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Old 2009-08-31, 03:49   Link #61
ac195
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
You're absolutely right. Leaving your kid behind because your wife died is certainly not the right way to handle things.

For the record, your "solution" wouldn't have been the right way, either.
I'm sorry. But whenever anyone mentions Shinji... I just want to slap the fail out of him...
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Old 2009-08-31, 13:48   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Kind of like what Neon Genesis Evangelion did by taking a few beloved anime stock character types, and putting them through the realism meat-grinder.
And the grand irony? People fell in love with the things he was trying to criticize, such as the emotionless, creepy Rei, not for the deconstruction, but for what she was at face value. And it may be happening in Haruhi.


Spoiler for End of Evangelion:
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Old 2009-08-31, 13:51   Link #63
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... That's about the only thing Kyon could've done in Disappearance to make him look worse.
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Old 2009-08-31, 18:27   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
And the grand irony? People fell in love with the things he was trying to criticize, such as the emotionless, creepy Rei, not for the deconstruction, but for what she was at face value. And it may be happening in Haruhi.


Spoiler for End of Evangelion:
I always wondered what the motivation behind that scene was. Even most Shinji defenders that I've talked with pretty much admit that Shinji was indefensible there. So, thanks for the info, Archon_Wing.

Anyway... deconstruction characters are tricky because fans of series naturally trend towards wanting to like the characters (outright villains notwithstanding) in the series that they like. Short of flat-out caricaturizing a character, it can be very hard to effectively convey to the fans of your work "You're not supposed to like this character!"
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Old 2009-08-31, 18:40   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Short of flat-out caricaturizing a character, it can be very hard to effectively convey to the fans of your work "You're not supposed to like this character!"
Kinda like a joke, it fails when you have to explain it.

Though I think I'll consider myself a Shinji defender. To me, he wasn't really that bad til near the end. He wasn't likable either, but it's only natural to be emo when your dad is a genocidal maniac who is working for people worse than him, everyone's an asshole or bipolar, and whatever plot contrivances happened when Anno was off his drugs and decided to be cruel to everyone.
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Old 2009-08-31, 18:44   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Kinda like a joke, it fails when you have to explain it.

Though I think I'll consider myself a Shinji defender. To me, he wasn't really that bad til near the end. He wasn't likable either, but it's only natural to be emo when your dad is a genocidal maniac who is working for people worse than him, everyone's an asshole or bipolar, and whatever plot contrivances happened when Anno was off his drugs and decided to be cruel to everyone.
I didn't have much problem with Shinji in the NGE 26 episode series. Well... I thought he was an idiot for not pursuing Asuka more, but that was the shipper in me.

My only problem with Shinji was in End of Eva... partly because of the scene you mentioned.
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Old 2009-09-01, 02:06   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Must have been before that. There is a 2001 horror film that supposedly "deals" with the concept of moe and the implications on the Japanese girls and the otaku males who've gone 2D/idealized schoolgirl over adult females.
This information intrigues me, and I would like to know more.

If I can steer this thread back to Mikuru for a moment: Poor girl can't even keep a hold of her own thread. Isn't it sad that Mikuru is losing her thread to someone like Shinji? Does this increase her moe-factor, or is it just pathetic?
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Old 2009-09-01, 02:12   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post

If I can steer this thread back to Mikuru for a moment: Poor girl can't even keep a hold of her own thread. Isn't it sad that Mikuru is losing her thread to someone like Shinji? Does this increase her moe-factor, or is it just pathetic?
It is quite pathetic, but at least she has a bright future so we know she finds her away. Adult Mikuru even found it nostalgic. Hmm...
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Old 2009-09-01, 09:09   Link #69
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I guess it's just a phase. Both Mikuru and Shinji got over it, and so should we, me think.
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Old 2009-09-01, 14:05   Link #70
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Old 2009-09-02, 05:49   Link #71
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Well, since no one's said enough about Mikuru, I guess I'll give it a go.

The main reason why I find Mikuru the least attractive alluded me for a while. I knew it wasn't because of her personality. I loved Shinobu from Love Hina, and her personality was very similar. After some thought, I finally figured out why I don't like her that much.

Three reasons. Her voice is too high pitched, her boobs are too big, and her hairs is too long or not long enough. I know it makes me a shallow bas%$#@, but it's the truth.

Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.

As for her hair, I just thinks it's boring. I've already mentioned that I love shoulder length hair (Like Haruhi's *drool*) and Tsuruya's hair is so long it adds to her personality. I even like Yuki's hair more than Mikuru's as it's so short it adds personality.

Anyway, I was curious as to why other might love her or not like her all that much. Do any of you guys agree with me?

Last edited by Jonbob0008; 2009-09-02 at 06:13.
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:09   Link #72
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Breasts. If she were Haruhi-sized or smaller, I'd probably have no problems with her.

Then again, she wouldn't even be in the cast if she weren't "extremely well-endowed," so it's a bit of a pointless argument.
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... that's... not a doughnut...
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:11   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
Well, since no one's said enough about Mikuru, I guess I'll give it a go.

The main reason why I find Mikuru the least attractive alluded me for a while. I knew it was because of her personality. I loved Shinobu from Love Hina, and her personality was very similar. After some thought, I finally figured out why I don't like her that much.

Three reasons. Her voice is too high pitched, her boobs are too big, and her hairs is too long or not long enough. I know it makes me a shallow bas%$#@, but it's the truth.

Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.

As for her hair, I just thinks it's boring. I've already mentioned that I love shoulder length hair (Like Haruhi's *drool*) and Tsuruya's hair is so long it adds to her personality. I even like Yuki's hair more than Mikuru's as it's so short it adds personality.

Anyway, I was curious as to why other might love her or not like her all that much. Do any of you guys agree with me?
Mikuru's breast size to waist size ratio looks bad in the Battle Waitress outfit... but that's at least partly due to the corset effect. In her North High student uniform, or in the red bunny suit, she looks Ok to me... well, I have to admit that she looks quite nice to me in the red bunny suit. She's at/very near my personal upper limit for attractive breast size in the red bunny suit, but she doesn't quite pass it.

I can't bring myself to outright dislike Mikuru; she's just too kindhearted a person for me to actively dislike, but she is my least favorite of the five SOS Brigade members. She's just so weak/wimpish... she makes Orihime from Bleach look tough in comparison. Granted, that this makes some of Mikuru's reactions funny (I found some of her freaked out facial appearances in Episode 12 of this year to be hilarious, I have to admit), but often her whininess just grates on me. It's why I have such a hard time pitying the girl, or even finding much fault in how Haruhi treats her... Mikuru is such a whiner.

Overall, I find Haruhi's character design to be more attractive than Mikuru's.
For me....

Haruhi's character design = dynamic, sexy, alluring, adorable
Mikuru's character design = ubercute

Mikuru has Haruhi beat in the moe department, but I'd give Haruhi the edge in pretty much every other area.
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:15   Link #74
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
she makes Orihime from Bleach look tough in comparison.
THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE OF THE DUBBED VERSIONS!



... Sorry.
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:17   Link #75
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Truthfully, I think the msid costume is the only costume that really suits her. I definitely think the bunny girl contumes suits Haruhi way better, and the corset in the Battle Waitress costume looks weird to me. I think it would be better without it.
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Old 2009-09-02, 06:20   Link #76
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OBJECTION!!

The waitress outfit that Mikuru (and Tsuruya) wore during Live A Live was excellent, and Mikuru looked genuinely attractive in the various yukata shown during the Endless Eight arc.
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Old 2009-09-02, 07:05   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE OF THE DUBBED VERSIONS!



... Sorry.
LOL! I only saw a little bit of dubbed Bleach. Now I feel compelled to watch a bit more... just to see what affect Mikuru's English dub voice has on my appreciation for Orihime. (I assume, based by your comment, that they're voiced by the same person?).

Oh, and for Jonbob... I agree that the maid outfit is Mikuru's best look, and probably suits her best.
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Old 2009-09-02, 07:37   Link #78
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Don't worry. There aren't really all that many instances of Mikuru and Orihime sounding similiar, and it'd mostly be on Mikuru's side.

However, seeing as Wendee Lee voices Tatsuki...
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Old 2009-09-02, 07:42   Link #79
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Anybody can have that power with a rag and a bottle of chloroform.
Chloroform doesn't work that way. Doses that could theoretically instantly KO will pretty much guaranteed to kill someone. Why do you think for surgery they have specialists whose sole job is to monitor the anesthetics into the patient? Because putting someone out is by definition is never a safe thing to do. "Safer" doses still are particularly dangerious to the person you're trying to knock out, but it also takes prolonged exposure to put them under. Do we really think Mikuru would be able to force a chemically soaked rag on kyon's face for over a minute?


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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well...you could always make the laser internal so she can't drop it....
I don't think it's safe to give a Mikuru a weapon ANYWHERE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.
Honestly this never bugged me. I'm not obsessed with large busts, but I certainly find them attractive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
Truthfully, I think the msid costume is the only costume that really suits her. I definitely think the bunny girl contumes suits Haruhi way better, and the corset in the Battle Waitress costume looks weird to me. I think it would be better without it.
What are you talking about? Mikuru looks adorable as a play boy bunny. Oddly, I also don't see allot of appeal in the maid outfit.

The Battle Waitress costume does come off as a bit weak, but I don't think it's because of the corset. Mainly because it seems to be trying to hard to be fetishy. I thought the Soba restaurant outfit looked better.
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Old 2009-09-02, 10:56   Link #80
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I go back and forth between disliking and liking Mikuru. Sometimes I don't like her because of her voice, her overly wimpy personality that somehow passes for "cute" to others but just seems a little overboard to me, and the fact that she was literally chosen for fanservice means.
So far she seems like a really shallow character though, there's not much depth to her or anything. If there was, I could easily ignore these "flaws" and depending on her backstory maybe even look at them as "strengths". But so far she's just "the cute one" and that's it, nothing developed about her personality really or anything. I've never read the novels, so I'm not sure if I'll like her or not in later chapters. But so far she does seem pretty "meh" to me because of her lack of development and the whole "BUT SHE'S CUTE!!!" thing constantly shoved in my face.

And sometimes I like her because she IS adorable and nice, I love her in Haruhi-chan, I found her really funny and easy to like in that. But in the main series, my feelings for her go back and forth. Out of all three of the main girls though, I do favor Mikuru. If we include Tsuruya though, that might be a little different. =P
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