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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 110 53.14%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 57 27.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 7.25%
7 out of 10 : Good 18 8.70%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 1.93%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.48%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.97%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-05, 03:25   Link #241
ac195
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I don't know if Haruhi is patient enough to make an entire movie project specifically to discredit Mikuru as potential competition. I'm pretty sure she just a) wanted to make a movie and b) assumed (as per usual) that everybody shares her level of enthusiasm for it.
Couldn't agree with you more here.

It's just Haruhi going full speed with her brakes cut. Like a kid on Christmas eve, nothing more really. It's pretty evident in her reaction when Kyon attempts to "punch" her... she can't even believe whats happening in front of her.
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Old 2009-09-05, 03:28   Link #242
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Hmm, I was actually kind of disappointed. The whole episode seemed quite subdued considering the range of emotion of this story arc. Everyone seemed a bit perfunctory. There was some marvelous animation of Haruhi going through a range of expressions though. The animation and art style seems like its moved closer to season one style again though.
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Old 2009-09-05, 03:48   Link #243
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If I were to describe the second of season of Haruhi, I'd pretty much describe it as mildly amusing, but ultimately shallow and pointless. It's epitomized by Endless Eight, which could get a reaction out of people, but what really was the point? While Haruhi is a series of great creativity, I feel that it ultimately lacked impact in that I could be entertained while watching it, but can't really remember these feelings afterwards, making it hard to describe what makes this series so great. I felt that way of the first season too, but that got around the problem by doing what it has to do and more. The series is at its best when it does the tongue in cheek snarky storytelling that I love so much. But when it tries to be dramatic, it has a hard time keeping stable. I feel this is true of all the KyoAni shows I have watched; even my beloved Clannad got really wobbly at times (Though some people will say worse-- this is not for this thread. )

Well, fortunately this episode is none of these things. Finally, we just get to see what the hell all of this was really about. Haruhi's slowly increasing acts of oppression have finally pushed everyone to the limit and no longer can he watch Mikuru suffer anymore. He was inspired by Mikuru's determination to keep going on, and he realized that if someone like her is willing to fight, then he must do it too.

The beginning of the episide catches us with yet another crisis on hand-- another contact lens. We are quickly reminded that this situation is getting more severe, and if this should keep on, Yuki just may no longer be able to hold Haruhi off. The ominous music playing seems a bit overdone, but make no mistake. They are walking on a very thin line here.

Arguably, the main scene of this episode when Kyon stands up wasn't as epic as it could have been. But that doesn't really matter; after all if you think about it's just 2 people having an argument. Sometimes going over the top defeats the purpose of a dramatic scene. That scene was well done, because the importance of the situation is understated. It's more than just two people yelling at each other; the fate of the universe is at stake. But then again, causally discussing the destruction of the universe is a staple of the series.

We get another of those talks with Itsuki, and as usual he just serves to annoy the crap out of Kyon. We also realize the amount of pressure Itsuki is really feeling and that despite his shadiness, he really does care about everyone (especaially Kyon? :O)

I found Kyon's internal monologue with Tanuguchi pretty interesting, as he secretly defends Haruhi. While it may be nothing new in the series, I have to wonder, what is Haruhi hiding in her own mind? Could she possibly feel the same way as Kyon? And she is caught making a ponytail. The scene where Haruhi cheers up is incredibly cute.

The end of the episode shows Haruhi's manipulations causing cherry blossoms to appear. Oh no, did she not learn a thing? -_- Did Kyon make the matter worse? While it might seem like it's teaching a bad lesson here, indeed this problem was never as easy as it sounds. I thought the end was sorta anticlimactic especially after the climax happened into the middle. But that doesn't really detract from the episode too much.

9/10 A very good episode, probably the best for season two, and just as good if not better than much of season 1. Despite the seemingly lack of epicness, I found a lot of substance to be taken from the episode as usually I really don't write more than a few sentences for these episodes. This is the first time in a while I'm anticipating the next episode. Here's to Haruhi going out this season with a bang. She wills it!
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Old 2009-09-05, 03:53   Link #244
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
If I were to describe the second of season of Haruhi, I'd pretty much describe it as mildly amusing, but ultimately shallow and pointless. It's epitomized by Endless Eight, which could get a reaction out of people, but what really was the point? While Haruhi is a series of great creativity, I feel that it ultimately lacked impact in that I could be entertained while watching it, but can't really remember these feelings afterwards, making it hard to describe what makes this series so great. I felt that way of the first season too, but that got around the problem by doing what it has to do and more. The series is at its best when it does the tongue in cheek snarky storytelling that I love so much. But when it tries to be dramatic, it has a hard time keeping stable. I feel this is true of all the KyoAni shows I have watched; even my beloved Clannad got really wobbly at times (Though some people will say worse-- this is not for this thread. )
Endless Eight really needs a sub-forum of its own.
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Old 2009-09-05, 03:55   Link #245
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Hmm, I was actually kind of disappointed. The whole episode seemed quite subdued considering the range of emotion of this story arc. Everyone seemed a bit perfunctory. There was some marvelous animation of Haruhi going through a range of expressions though. The animation and art style seems like its moved closer to season one style again though.
I actually thought the episode being subdued made it more interesting. It'd go in the mindset of casual disregard for important things, just like Haruhi. The fact that everything is at stake but nobody seems to be acting like it makes it quite distressing. Often times, when people are aware of a problem and powerless to stop it, it often degenerates into apathy. In any case, I felt that came off as less predictable then some epic over the top stuff like EE's conclusion.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:07   Link #246
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I thought the end was sorta anticlimactic especially after the climax happened into the middle.
In case you haven't caught on yet, Sigh is one long movie, divided into 5 parts. That's why the "end" is anti-climatic; it isn't the "end", it's just when the episode stops. That's why Mikuru was cut off mid-sentence in the first Sigh episode, and continued straight from the start of the second episode.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:10   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
In case you haven't caught on yet, Sigh is one long movie, divided into 5 parts. That's why the "end" is anti-climatic; it isn't the "end", it's just when the episode stops. That's why Mikuru was cut off mid-sentence in the first Sigh episode, and continued straight from the start of the second episode.
Yea I know, I'm just writing about the episode But I just didn't really think much of the end; just didn't feel like the drama that was there for the entire episode was present at the end.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:23   Link #248
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I really love KyoAni's adaptation. It's because of this deterioration in Kyon and Haruhi's relationship that vol 2 was my least favorite book. I thought the book did very well to convey Kyon's frustration and rage towards Haruhi's blatant devaluing of Mikuru. His urge to strike her was something I felt strongly while reading Haruhi's defiant response. But this episode, with the flim-noir style visuals, the tense musical score, and great delivery of lines by Sugita and Hirano, had me totally glued to the scene. It was outstanding!
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:26   Link #249
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The background music for Sigh has been great. Usually I don't notice these things, but that just makes it more impressive. It can be a fine line between forgettable bgms and intrusive ones.

Oh and the voices too. They were perfect.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:28   Link #250
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Yea I know, I'm just writing about the episode But I just didn't really think much of the end; just didn't feel like the drama that was there for the entire episode was present at the end.
Again, I think you are missing the point. The reason the episodes are so uneven in pacing/drama/whatever is that it is being presented as a movie cut into episodes. Basically, if you are feeling that... that's what KyoAni wants you to feel. They are really, really, really loving the meta content of Haruhi this year.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:45   Link #251
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Again, I think you are missing the point. The reason the episodes are so uneven in pacing/drama/whatever is that it is being presented as a movie cut into episodes. Basically, if you are feeling that... that's what KyoAni wants you to feel. They are really, really, really loving the meta content of Haruhi this year.
Meh, just because I don't like something doesn't always mean I don't get it. Besides, that can be used to justify practically anything because there's no way to tell what their intentions are. I simply do not want to consider what level of thinking Kyoani's on and I don't really want to do that just to enjoy a show. The only thing I do know is that they are doing what they are always doing, trying to put something entertaining and thoughtful out there even if I don't always agree.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:50   Link #252
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Meh, just because I don't like something doesn't always mean I don't get it. Besides, that can be used to justify practically anything because there's no way to tell what their intentions are. I simply do not want to consider what level of thinking Kyoani's on and I don't really want to do that just to enjoy a show. The only thing I do know is that they are doing what they are always doing, trying to put something entertaining and thoughtful out there even if I don't always agree.
BLR: airs 3 years after the first season airs ("3 years ago..." is essential to BLR's plot)

E8: runs for 8 episodes (this one is too easy to explain right?)

Sighs: is cut like a movie (the plot revolves around making a movie)

The intentions are clear. It's all been planned.
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Old 2009-09-05, 04:57   Link #253
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BLR: airs 3 years after the first season airs ("3 years ago..." is essential to BLR's plot)

E8: runs for 8 episodes (this one is too easy to explain right?)

Sighs: is cut like a movie (the plot revolves around making a movie)

The intentions are clear. It's all been planned.
Very well, that actually makes sense. But just because I know of the concept doesn't mean I have to like it or the way it's executed.
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:15   Link #254
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Very well, that actually makes sense. But just because I know of the concept doesn't mean I have to like it or the way it's executed.
That's fine, you don't need to like it. Just don't question KyoAni's intentions because it's pretty clear that it has all been planned. Some may not find the studio's attempt to have Haruhi's reality bending powers break the 4th wall enjoyable, but I'm having fun with it.
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:19   Link #255
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
The series is at its best when it does the tongue in cheek snarky storytelling that I love so much. But when it tries to be dramatic, it has a hard time keeping stable. I feel this is true of all the KyoAni shows I have watched; even my beloved Clannad got really wobbly at times (Though some people will say worse-- this is not for this thread. )
To do drama well I tend to think you need really deep and developed characters and usually there has to be some sort of significant struggle that they end up going through to give reason for the drama and for them to grow even further. Haruhi has that struggle with the whole idea of trying to keep Haruhi happy so she doesn't alter the universe irreparably, but it rarely uses it well or to much effect. Haruhi like a lot of Kyoani shows as of late seems content to simply put it's characters on parade and have them do whatever each week, usually for the purposes of moe.

There's rarely a sense of overwhelming urgency to any situation so there really can't be solid drama in my eyes, and this is I think made pretty clear in the rather over the top sequence of Kyon about to deck Haruhi and them then having their shouting match. Haruhi was barely tapping Mikuru on the head with that microphone and it actually looked more like she was playing with her and that was the extent of their problems. The thing here though is that Mikuru is such a total exploitation character (In some ways it's hard to blame anybody for thinking her as a dolllike plaything to do with as they please let alone Haruhi who is prone to treating others like they are there to do her bidding)that she can't be bothered to say something, anything, for herself as usual. This is not a show built for drama and Kyoani is really just not a studio built for drama, so I wish they'd just focus on other areas that they could be good at (Eye candy, moe presentation, wacky antics/scenarios etc.) and tone down the way in which the dramatic moments are presented more often like they did with that one scene I mentioned with just Haruhi and Kyon looking at each other. That says enough for these characters and their level of personal relationship development that we've come to know.
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:26   Link #256
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That's fine, you don't need to like it. Just don't question KyoAni's intentions because it's pretty clear that it has all been planned. Some may not find the studio's attempt to have Haruhi's world bending powers break the 4th wall, but I'm enjoying it.
Why should they not be questioned? Even if they have a plan they are not infallible, being human and all. After all, these threads are for expressing opinion.

Unless, you may be concerned I consider KyoAni's intentions to be malicious. Despite my occasional sarcasm, I have never seriously thought they are somehow trying to kill Haruhi or trolling their fans, not to mention many things are out of their control. I seriously do believe they put a lot of love in their work and they are my favorite studio.

I guess we will have to like Sigh in different ways, in any case we can agree the next episode is something to look forward to?
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:35   Link #257
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Why should they not be questioned? Even if they have a plan they are not infallible, being human and all. After all, these threads are for expressing opinion.

Unless, you may be concerned I consider KyoAni's intentions to be malicious. Despite my occasional sarcasm, I have never seriously thought they are somehow trying to kill Haruhi or trolling their fans, not to mention many things are out of their control. I seriously do believe they put a lot of love in their work and they are my favorite studio.

I guess we will have to like Sigh in different ways, in any case we can agree the next episode is something to look forward to?
I am not questioning your opinion. I'm just pointing out that the intentions of the studio are pretty clear. Like I said, some people may not like it, but I'm enjoying it.
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:48   Link #258
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To do drama well I tend to think you need really deep and developed characters and usually there has to be some sort of significant struggle that they end up going through to give reason for the drama and for them to grow even further. Haruhi has that struggle with the whole idea of trying to keep Haruhi happy so she doesn't alter the universe irreparably, but it rarely uses it well or to much effect. Haruhi like a lot of Kyoani shows as of late seems content to simply put it's characters on parade and have them do whatever each week, usually for the purposes of moe.
Very good points. To give a damn about the situation you need characters that you care about. And there must be a sense of urgency.

Quote:
There's rarely a sense of overwhelming urgency to any situation so there really can't be solid drama in my eyes, and this is I think made pretty clear in the rather over the top sequence of Kyon about to deck Haruhi and them then having their shouting match. Haruhi was barely tapping Mikuru on the head with that microphone and it actually looked more like she was playing with her and that was the extent of their problems.
I thought that particular scene had a sense of urgency. The entire universe may be at stake, and the consequences of any action is unknown. I didn't really find it over the top, but it may be due to the anime I watch. True, Haruhi tapping Mikuru on the head doesn't seem like much but that could be seen as the final straw, considering Kyon just learned they spiked her drink and displayed an even more callous disregard for Mikuru's well being.

Quote:
The thing here though is that Mikuru is such a total exploitation character (In some ways it's hard to blame anybody for thinking her as a dolllike plaything to do with as they please let alone Haruhi who is prone to treating others like they are there to do her bidding)that she can't be bothered to say something, anything, for herself as usual.
I'd agree Mikuru is poorly utilized and can be considered a rather flat character. But the consequences of her doing anything could be fatal, and it's very obvious that she is simply too shocked. And really, Mikuru's dehumanization is a key point in the series. The point of her solely being brought for purposes of moe and her treatment, if brought to another story would probaly be considered disgusting and shocking. Yet, it's seen as comedic here.

Quote:
This is not a show built for drama and Kyoani is really just not a studio built for drama, so I wish they'd just focus on other areas that they could be good at (Eye candy, moe presentation, wacky antics/scenarios etc.) and tone down the way in which the dramatic moments are presented more often
I agree with you here to some degree, most regarding the later point and that Haruhi wasn't meant for drama. If they can develop a better balance, they can probably do drama better.
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Old 2009-09-05, 05:54   Link #259
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Watched the episode, quite a lots of fun stuffs: Yuki's super strength, Mikuru's laser (or...whatever) cutter beam, Yuki's super speed (she approach her target way be4 her hat can fall xD), Itsuki's super speed (he probably do that pool-flipping to get across and approach Kyon from the right) then of course ponytail!! and that screens with sakura petals.
Undoubtly i will give this Ep 10 ....


Anyway back to the discussion within this thread and it's time for orthodox Haruhiist (..me...) to have a say (yeah it's an anime, but it's such a good material for only entertainment):
  • First is Kyon's action of using punch against Haruhi. Seriously i do not understand how can people tolerate that action. Intend to punch a girl for whatever reason is unacceptable. Even when it's not true, surely "mistreat your friend/crush" is not one of them.....
    Then don't forget that girl is Haruhi, the God of the universe who once portrayed to him her ultimate power of destroying and reconstructing the world. For whatever the chance, it would be like dropping nuke all over the world... and for a damn trivia reason. Selfish action to satisfy personal rage, while could be understood (it's one of seven sin after all), can't not be tolerated. It's lucky for Kyon that he got such a good "comrade" like Itsuki to help him out, another person may let him see his own catastrophe or knock him out of conscious (then try to settle the argument) the moment he rise his fist.
    I do not blame Kyon as he's an ordinary person. There are tons of guys out there will react the same way and people's reaction in this thread prove my point. However when the disaster happens, the judgment do not base on how good will you had when it was triggered, but what the consequence that trigger gonna cost us.
  • Now secondly 's Haruhi. Her action also is not acceptable. But it was way far from what she did to Mikuru the day she blackmail the CC and give Mikuru mental scar. The only differences are it's hard to see someone suffer (Mikuru) and slide down the slope (Haruhi) now, when you knew them much better.
    However...... describe Haruhi as sociopathy? Give me a break...Given the power Haruhi had both at the subconscious level (which can change anything oppose her way) and consciously (study, athletics, art and all other activity), and how she got through middle school without knowing (or being told) about the wrongness of sexual abuse, blackmail, mistreat....etc...... It's amazing that Haruhi can still have such a strong righteous to not end up as gang leaders, manipulate drug dealers and sell high-school girls to prostitution.... Hasn't "Stanford prison experiment" clearly showed that ?

Judge Haruhi based on human standard is like judging God by human standard
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Old 2009-09-05, 06:05   Link #260
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I am not questioning your opinion. I'm just pointing out that the intentions of the studio are pretty clear. Like I said, some people may not like it, but I'm enjoying it.
Each to their own. I'm enjoying it as well.
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