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Old 2009-09-16, 09:02   Link #1041
Proto
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
The list stops at 20 actually from what I remember...

Spoiler for 18-19-20:
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Old 2009-09-16, 09:30   Link #1042
Willen
Aoba Tsukishima
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
The list stops at 20 actually from what I remember...

Spoiler for 18-19-20:
It makes you wonder what Wakaba would have added on after 20...
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Old 2009-09-16, 09:42   Link #1043
Pellissier
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The complete list (image inside)

Spoiler for list:


What Kou got, up to their 17th birthday:

Spoiler for gifts:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
It makes you wonder what Wakaba would have added on after 20...
Following her logic, a wedding ring was next, for sure. After that who knows, always following her logic, something bigger and more expensive...
I do wonder if Kou would have continued to get clocks for his birthday, since "one wasn't enough".
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Old 2009-09-16, 17:14   Link #1044
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
Why is he completing that list anyway? No sane person would do something like that. Kou doesn't seem like he is interested in Wakaba as a lover anyway.

"Oh it's my birthday. What better way to spend it other than to get a gift for my dead friend who I will no longer see, have no use for such things and is already 6 feet under".

Of course, there will be something in store or something about this in the future episodes. This kind of action will most likely have some kind of repercussion with Kou's love life in the future. It will most likely make Aoba jealous and make her feel very insecure. Aoba will be like-

"Kou's doing this for Wakaba. Guess I cannot really compare myself to my sister cause she is too perfect and everybody loves her while I'm being Emo about baseball and now I'm going to be Emo about this too".
Everyone grieves in their own way. It's very arrogant to assume that if they do something other than you would that that makes them less sane.

OF course it does show a fixation on Wakaba, which of courses makes it difficult for Kou to "move on". But that's the point, Kou doesn't want to move on. He doesn't want to forget Wakaba, he wants to remember her always. It's very touching.

Actually I'd say this dynamic is what makes Aoba the only viable potential romance for Kou. Other women would have to struggle with jealously- "Kou loves this dead girl more than me". They would want Kou to eventually forget Wakaba and make a life with them. Aoba on the other hand loves Wakaba, and also doesn't want to forget her. While there still is the obstacle of comparing herself to her sister (which we know she already does- remember the cooking episode?), once that is overcome Aoba wouldn't want Kou to forget Wakaba. Instead they could remember Wakaba together.

(Heck, Aoba might even convince herself that "taking care of Kou" is what her sister would have wanted her to do- cause lets face it, as good a guy as Kou is, he really needs a woman looking after him. Otherwise he'll spend all his effort making others happy and not be happy himself.)
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Old 2009-09-16, 18:47   Link #1045
Theowne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
"Oh it's my birthday. What better way to spend it other than to get a gift for my dead friend who I will no longer see, have no use for such things and is already 6 feet under"..
The same reason that people put flowers on the graves of their deceased loved ones.

Quote:
Kou doesn't seem like he is interested in Wakaba as a lover anyway.
"As a lover"? Now when she passed away as a child, no. If you mean as a memory, then yes I do believe that he reciprocates the affection that Wakaba had for him, although he knows he took it for granted when she was alive (perhaps a bit of guilt here).
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Old 2009-09-16, 18:51   Link #1046
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I'd go so far as to say there is a lot of guilt, there. And, if we go by the overly common guy-hates-girl-who-hates-him-back-and-then-they-fall-in-love trope, the girl who he was in love growing up could very well have been someone else. I know, it's a cliché, but... if done right, it could also be one hell of a bomb to throw at someone's face, wouldn't you say?
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Old 2009-09-16, 19:06   Link #1047
Theowne
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If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, it'd be a bomb all right, but for me at least, an unwelcome one. I like what the story's built so far in terms of memories of the past and would hate to see that disrupted by those kind of "revelations".
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Old 2009-09-16, 21:00   Link #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
I also'd like to spend two lines about his voice actor, Irino Miyu, whom I think is doing a fantastic job with him. His tone and his pauses for Kou's moods are just perfect, to the extent I couldn't really imagine any other way of depicting him. The moment in which I understood he was really great, was in episode 1 from about 20:10 onwards, when Kou went to the festival and said to the big man "Hey, sir" "What should I do now?". And later, at the end of the episode "I get it, it's not hard at all, I just have to cry". Usually they get a different voice actor, most of the times a female, to dub the child counterpart of a teenage male character. In this case, Irino Miyu did the job himself. Nailing it perfectly.
Yeah, thanks for pointing out Miyu-Miyu's work here - he's really excellent and has been in most of his roles.
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Old 2009-09-17, 00:18   Link #1049
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I'd go so far as to say there is a lot of guilt, there. And, if we go by the overly common guy-hates-girl-who-hates-him-back-and-then-they-fall-in-love trope, the girl who he was in love growing up could very well have been someone else. I know, it's a cliché, but... if done right, it could also be one hell of a bomb to throw at someone's face, wouldn't you say?
You know, initially this is exactly what I thought as I watched the first couple of episodes unfold, that is if I'm interpreting your post right as well Mind you, I've only been watching the anime and not following the manga
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Old 2009-09-17, 03:47   Link #1050
FuzzyWuzzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
You'd actually be surprised how many perfectly sane people still do things for the sake of the dead. Plus, I highly doubt Aoba's anywhere near jealous (at least for the moment), considering she seems to respect Kou's personal ways in honoring Wakaba's death and memory.

Also, does anyone remember what gifts were on Wakaba's list for her 18th and 21st birthdays? Since these birthdates tend to be important the gifts on those dates might be special too.
It's not just about being dead. It's also about giving gifts.

How many people out there give gifts like jewelry to the dead?
How many people even give gifts to their friends? I can't even remember the last time I gave a gift to a friend. When is the last time you gave a gift to a friend of yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
The same reason that people put flowers on the graves of their deceased loved ones.
They are not the same. People don't put jewelry on a dead person's gravestone.
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Old 2009-09-17, 04:10   Link #1051
BetoJR
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Some people might - and, I'm sure, do. Hell, ancient egyptians were buried with their entire cadre of servants - still alive. Just because you find something like Kou's behavior inexplicable, doesn't mean everyone else will.

You might want to remember that Kou is not giving the presents away - he's keeping them in a box. There's a different kind of inference, there.
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Old 2009-09-17, 09:04   Link #1052
Proto
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Quote:
How many people even give gifts to their friends? I can't even remember the last time I gave a gift to a friend. When is the last time you gave a gift to a friend of yours?
I do, nothing weird there

And about gifts to the dead, there's the day of the death in Mexico where people build a little shrine to their dead loved ones and put some of the things that person liked the most in that shrine.

Really, it may be difficult to imagine, but there are uses, customs and cultures outside of your own.
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Old 2009-09-17, 09:13   Link #1053
MeoTwister5
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In my Chinese heritage we leave gifts of fruit, food and other things in offerings. We even burn "paper money" that is supposed to be the spending money of the dead in the afterlife.

So yeah.
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Old 2009-09-17, 13:01   Link #1054
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
It's not just about being dead. It's also about giving gifts.

How many people out there give gifts like jewelry to the dead?
How many people even give gifts to their friends? I can't even remember the last time I gave a gift to a friend. When is the last time you gave a gift to a friend of yours?
I don't understand what your complaint is. I mean, is it that ridiculous to give expensive gifts to a dead loved one? You say that Kou didn't necessarily love Wakaba, then tell me, why is he doing this for her?

I'm not sure how you were raised or what experiences you've been through in life, but we're all different because of those exact reasons. Kou grew up with Wakaba around him all the time and she openly admitted her feelings for him at such a young age. Kou really cared for Wakaba and she created a list thinking she was going to live a long and prosperous life with Kou, but then tragedy kicks in and takes her away. You're not giving the situation enough credit and forgetting to put yourself in the protagonists shoes. This isn't about how you feel, this is about understanding the heart of another.
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Old 2009-09-20, 12:44   Link #1055
FuzzyWuzzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
In my Chinese heritage we leave gifts of fruit, food and other things in offerings. We even burn "paper money" that is supposed to be the spending money of the dead in the afterlife.

So yeah.
Any of those gifts like jewelry or things you give to someone that is alive so they will look pretty or have use for it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I do, nothing weird there

And about gifts to the dead, there's the day of the death in Mexico where people build a little shrine to their dead loved ones and put some of the things that person liked the most in that shrine.

Really, it may be difficult to imagine, but there are uses, customs and cultures outside of your own.
He is doing it "not on the day of the dead". Kou is in Japan btw and a Japanese with a Japanese culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I don't understand what your complaint is. I mean, is it that ridiculous to give expensive gifts to a dead loved one? You say that Kou didn't necessarily love Wakaba, then tell me, why is he doing this for her?
Cause the writer of this novel is stupid. It is some kind of plot mechanic. It obviously has something to do with the later episodes that will either make Aoba insecure, make her cry or something along those lines. The writer can't think of anything better to accomplish that task other than this.
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Old 2009-09-20, 12:56   Link #1056
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
Cause the writer of this novel is stupid. It is some kind of plot mechanic. It obviously has something to do with the later episodes that will either make Aoba insecure, make her cry or something along those lines. The writer can't think of anything better to accomplish that task other than this.
i really can't believe anyone that say that kou didn't love wakaba when he admited it himself.
The tragedy is that it took Waka to die for Kou to realize that he loved her. kou now knows how it feels to love someone. There won't be misunderstandings when it comes to Aoba.
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Old 2009-09-20, 13:03   Link #1057
Theowne
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Quote:
Any of those gifts like jewelry or things you give to someone that is alive so they will look pretty or have use for it?
The fact that it is jewelry isn't important, that just happens to be on the list, and the list that Wakaba gave him is what is important.

I'm surprised we're discussing this non-issue for so long. FuzzyWuzzy is the only one who seems to have a problem with Kou's behavior (and apparently with the idea of giving gifts to friends itself, alive or dead). With a nearly unanimous opinion, I daresay that this is just an individual hangup and not a problem with the story itself.
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Old 2009-09-20, 13:22   Link #1058
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:

He is doing it "not on the day of the dead". Kou is in Japan btw and a Japanese with a Japanese culture.
And as such there is Obon and the myriads of personal and family shinto folk traditions the Japanese love... your point being?
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Old 2009-09-20, 13:53   Link #1059
BetoJR
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Interesting non-issue to discuss, when a single person manages to disagree with seemingly everyone in the board. Honestly, is there even a point to the debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
Cause the writer of this novel is stupid.
And this is the kind of statement that earns someone a spot on my Ignore List. This isn't a novel (but an anime, based on a manga) and your taste seems debatable, at best. See ya.
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Old 2009-09-20, 15:10   Link #1060
FuzzyWuzzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golthin View Post
i really can't believe anyone that say that kou didn't love wakaba when he admited it himself.
The tragedy is that it took Waka to die for Kou to realize that he loved her. kou now knows how it feels to love someone. There won't be misunderstandings when it comes to Aoba.
I'm pretty sure, Kou never admitted he loved her cause he never did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
The fact that it is jewelry isn't important, that just happens to be on the list, and the list that Wakaba gave him is what is important.

I'm surprised we're discussing this non-issue for so long. FuzzyWuzzy is the only one who seems to have a problem with Kou's behavior.
I'm just stating the fact that it is out of character or no sane person irl is doing something like that. I don't know what everyone's problem is. It is clear as day and night. If there is one person in this world doing that right now, I would be surprised. One person with a list of gifts from a dead friend and that person is completing that list.
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