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Old 2009-09-23, 16:43   Link #41
C.A.
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Kuma did what could be the best thing possible during the situation.

Even with Rayleigh taking on Kizaru, the Strawhats would still be defeated by Sentoumaru and the Pacifistas. The appearance of Kuma is like a godsent miracle.

Not only did they get a chance to escape, they get a chance to become stronger and when they reunite, their bonds will become stronger than before.
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Old 2009-09-23, 17:21   Link #42
james0246
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So, how did Moria create his new zombies? After all, If the shadow's original body was left out in the sun, it would burst into dust, and the zombie would collapse. So, did Moria hide away some injured soldiers/pirates in order to make his zombies? Or is something new going on?

I do like that his sights are still set on Luffy. Here's hoping for a rematch (yes, I know that Jinbei attacks him, but still...).

I did like everyone's reaction to the news that Luffy was Dragon's son. Easily comparable to the reactions seen when Ace was announced as Roger's son...
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Old 2009-09-23, 17:34   Link #43
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o, Luffy vs Hina am not to bothered about ~ but i hope this leads to the Smoker vs Luffy rematch at last. His logia doesn't seem to have any real weakness that i can see (like Crocodile and Enel), this should be where Luffy starts to realize his powerful Haki.
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Old 2009-09-23, 18:39   Link #44
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
So, how did Moria create his new zombies? After all, If the shadow's original body was left out in the sun, it would burst into dust, and the zombie would collapse. So, did Moria hide away some injured soldiers/pirates in order to make his zombies? Or is something new going on?


I thought about it as well, and the only conclusion I can think of right now is that Moria used his own shadow to reanimate those corpses. My guess is that maybe he split it into several fragments (like when he does his Brick Bat) to pull off this feat. After all, we know that he can take control of zombies that were already animated through other foreign shadows (like when he manipulated Luffy's shadow so Oz could stretch his limbs), so maybe he can already manipulate several zombies at once with his own shadow, though it obviously wouldn't be as effective as using the shadow of another powerful warrior......




Quote:
I do like that his sights are still set on Luffy. Here's hoping for a rematch (yes, I know that Jinbei attacks him, but still...).


Not that I don't like the idea of a rematch between those two or anything, but I figure that Luffy is already "done" with Moria. Luffy already pushed him a great deal at Thriller Bark, and I doubt that he has too many more tricks to throw at him, unless it's a new zombie warrior that's stronger than Oz. Not that Moria himself is a pushover, of course (he's far from it), but I don't really think there's much more meaning in a rematch between him and Luffy. I'd much rather see the shadow man fighting against Whitebeard's forces......
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Old 2009-09-23, 19:00   Link #45
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well i'm not condoning what he did. but, IMHO i think he did what he did to save all of them, he did the best out of the situtation that was in front of him, they were all going to die or go to prison, they were overpowred and were not at all ready for what was happening. he did what he did to save them. and in the process he did send them all to points where they could discover new things in terms of story as well as power ups.
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Kuma did what could be the best thing possible during the situation.

Even with Rayleigh taking on Kizaru, the Strawhats would still be defeated by Sentoumaru and the Pacifistas. The appearance of Kuma is like a godsent miracle.

Not only did they get a chance to escape, they get a chance to become stronger and when they reunite, their bonds will become stronger than before.
I guess I'll take your words for it from the both of you about Kuma. Dragon, however, wether or not he even planned their seperation will not get off so easily. As I think of this, Dragon sounds as if he had the villainous qualities of Darth Vader and Ozymandias (Adrian Veiht) -the former for the blood relation and the latter for the insensitivity of others' feelings.
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Old 2009-09-23, 19:27   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Kuma did what could be the best thing possible during the situation.

Even with Rayleigh taking on Kizaru, the Strawhats would still be defeated by Sentoumaru and the Pacifistas. The appearance of Kuma is like a godsent miracle.

Not only did they get a chance to escape, they get a chance to become stronger and when they reunite, their bonds will become stronger than before.
I do not agree with the defeat part. If Kuma wouldn't have appeared, with team work, they would have still defeated Sentoumaru and the Pacifistas. But, by the time they would defeat them, they would become incapable of moving, as it happened during the Alabasta arc. So, they might be captured by the marines, even though Rayleigh would have prevented Kizaru to do anything to them.

And of course, getting stronger wouldn't have happened. That is why, I think the only important part of Kuma's apperance is the getting stronger part. Not only as a character, but also the help they can gather during the lonely days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
So, how did Moria create his new zombies? After all, If the shadow's original body was left out in the sun, it would burst into dust, and the zombie would collapse. So, did Moria hide away some injured soldiers/pirates in order to make his zombies? Or is something new going on?
I think if he can gather that many shadows into his body, he could also be capable of dividing his own shadow into many that is capable of controlling the dead bodies. Those bodies may not be as strong as they would be with the other fresh shadows, but during this fight it may help him to some extent. And, the worst part for him would be doing the dirty work all by himself.
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Old 2009-09-23, 19:53   Link #47
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I do not agree with the defeat part. If Kuma wouldn't have appeared, with team work, they would have still defeated Sentoumaru and the Pacifistas.
The strawhats fought to the point of complete exhaustion against one pacifista. After such a tiresome battle, there is no way they would have been able to emerge victorious against another one being accompanied by Sentoumaru to make matters even worse. The strawhats were clearly outclassed at the archipelago.
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:06   Link #48
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Gotta agree with Blackbeard D. Kuma on that matter. Plus, remember that the Pacifistas weren't a handful for just the Straw-Hats, but the other supernovas, as well. Simply put, Luffy and co. would've been screwed over big-time if not for Kuma. The Sabaody arc was meant to show just how far the Straw-Hats have to go before they can properly compete with the big boys.......
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:15   Link #49
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Regarding Pacifistas, after solving how to beat one, they could have done it easier for the remaining ones. So, I am not really too worried about Kuma clones. The only major problem they would have would be Sentoumaru, and considering his intelligence, he should have been also defeated in a surprising way. A complete exhaustion would not happen, as long as they have the willpower to fight. And, if they had believed they would have won, that would have happened. And that time would signal the complete exhaustion...

If Zoro can survive that Kuma energy ball, then anything is possible.
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:17   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Regarding Pacifistas, after solving how to beat one, they could have done it easier for the remaining ones. So, I am not really too worried about Kuma clones. The only major problem they would have would be Sentoumaru, and considering his intelligence, he should have been also defeated in a surprising way. A complete exhaustion would not happen, as long as they have the willpower to fight. And, if they had believed they would have won, that would have happened. And that time would signal the complete exhaustion...

If Zoro can survive that Kuma energy ball, then anything is possible.
We don't know if Kuma hold back with his energy ball.
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:22   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Azncoke123 View Post
We don't know if Kuma hold back with his energy ball.
That energy ball was quite real, considering the reaction Zoro had after touching a small piece. And I doubt Kuma is someone, who would hold back, especially after seeing such an admirable courageous act from Zoro (that is after ignoring what he had done earlier that would have killed everyone there). I think it would be okay to assume that Kuma had believed in Zoro's strength. And it was Zoro's strength that allowed him to survive.
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:57   Link #52
rob lucci
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i think iva's opponents isn't the real kuma...

Iwankof: Bartholomew kuma…!! HA..HA…
I get that you wanna keep you title as a SHICHIBUKAI..
But damn, dont be shooting MAJIREZA (real laser) at someone you know

the real kuma isn't using laser right.
it was a pascifistha
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Old 2009-09-23, 20:57   Link #53
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
A complete exhaustion would not happen, as long as they have the willpower to fight. And, if they had believed they would have won, that would have happened. And that time would signal the complete exhaustion...
On pages 4 and 5 of Chapter 512, Luffy himself says that their only objective should be to retreat since they cannot hope to beat their opponents (Kizaru, Pacifista, and Sentoumaru). This is after their battle against the first pacifista, so they couldn't have won no matter who you look at it.

Also, having willpower alone is not enough to prevail in battle. One must also have the sufficient strength needed to overcome their adversaries, otherwise they will lose in the end. The strawhats suffered an utter defeat because of their inadequate strength at the archipelago. Like marvelB said, showing their inadequacy in comparison to the elites was the main message of the sabaody archipelago arc.
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Old 2009-09-23, 21:52   Link #54
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
On pages 4 and 5 of Chapter 512, Luffy himself says that their only objective should be to retreat since they cannot hope to beat their opponents (Kizaru, Pacifista, and Sentoumaru). This is after their battle against the first pacifista, so they couldn't have won no matter who you look at it.

Also, having willpower alone is not enough to prevail in battle. One must also have the sufficient strength needed to overcome their adversaries, otherwise they will lose in the end. The strawhats suffered an utter defeat because of their inadequate strength at the archipelago. Like marvelB said, showing their inadequacy in comparison to the elites was the main message of the sabaody archipelago arc.
This is true, afterall the reason why they were tired in the first place is because they wore themselves out fighting one pacifista. So I think its safe to say that it was a complete no win situation.

And I like how Oda makes it so that in a lot of fights even with willpower they still lose, sometimes. Cause Luffy's will has to be loads stronger then most of the guys he's gotten his ass handed to him by.
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Old 2009-09-24, 01:01   Link #55
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I just read the entire script and Again, Nothing is or has been happening, Just more Luffy praise and how everyone is becoming Luffy's tools...That's weak Oda..

Crap chapter..
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Old 2009-09-24, 02:01   Link #56
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I just read the entire script and Again, Nothing is or has been happening, Just more Luffy praise and how everyone is becoming Luffy's tools...That's weak Oda..

Crap chapter..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeVAkzEas
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Old 2009-09-24, 02:10   Link #57
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Thanks that's going in the sig.^^

CLASSIC!!
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Old 2009-09-24, 02:52   Link #58
Rawrz
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After saving Strawhats (which is confirmed by this chapter), defeating a pacifista and being called an acquaintance by a revo commander.....still no marine can identify Kuma as an enemy? Someone call Vegapunk to turn his switch off or pull out his batteries.

Hell they were suspicious of Kuma after tenryubito event and if I were Kizaru I'd beam him to death by now.I know WG need everything to hold their ground but an enemy spy in their ranks will only cause trouble.
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Old 2009-09-24, 04:52   Link #59
andy
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After saving Strawhats (which is confirmed by this chapter), defeating a pacifista and being called an acquaintance by a revo commander.....still no marine can identify Kuma as an enemy? Someone call Vegapunk to turn his switch off or pull out his batteries.

Hell they were suspicious of Kuma after tenryubito event and if I were Kizaru I'd beam him to death by now.I know WG need everything to hold their ground but an enemy spy in their ranks will only cause trouble.
I don't think the WG knows he is a acquaintance of Iva , i mean ivan said that, but how loud did he said it , was it something he said in his mind etc etc. Plus kuma is strong i don't think kizaru could just beam kill him . Out of the 3 i think kizaru is worst match for kuma to tell you the truth .
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Old 2009-09-24, 08:53   Link #60
ZeroForever
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i think iva's opponents isn't the real kuma...

Iwankof: Bartholomew kuma…!! HA..HA…
I get that you wanna keep you title as a SHICHIBUKAI..
But damn, dont be shooting MAJIREZA (real laser) at someone you know

the real kuma isn't using laser right.
it was a pascifistha
the real kuma uses lasers from the mouth, he did it against zoro that first time as well. it's just that the real one on his hands have the paw paw set up instead of lasers.
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