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Old 2009-09-24, 11:13   Link #4081
Shadow Kira01
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FOCUS: Japan seeking to tweak relationship with U.S., but way ahead unclear

Quote:
Some analysts think Okada holds the key to future bilateral relations, saying he has a more solid foreign policy vision than Hatoyama, who has been known to flip-flop on some key policies such as the refueling mission, the issue of Japan's three non-nuclear principles, and a free trade accord with the United States.

They believe such inconsistency mirrors Hatoyama's indecisiveness on exactly where he wants to situate Japan in its relationship with the United States, while Okada appears to know what he wants and is determined to achieve his goals.
With Okada as foreign minister and possible future successor of the current prime minister, there is no doubt that Japan's foreign policy as of now will undergo major changes. Whether it be to build a successful East Asian Community or to alter bilateral relations with the United States, changes will no doubt occur to the point that it may surprise lots of people.

However, even though this is done in goodwill and a positive light, lots of people may not see it as such. China and Korea may not fully cooperate as that a spate of issues remain unresolved while the current relationship with the United States may become strained if disagreements are to continue rising.
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Old 2009-09-24, 14:12   Link #4082
autobachs
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I get it.

People want to use a massive amount of bandwidth to either download a movie or talk over voIP, but not pay any extra for it, outside of the fee from the provider of that service (not to be confused with the provider of the service they expect to get the extra bandwidth from, aka their ISP). The people providing those services want to provide them at low cost despite the fact that they are bandwidth hogs, so they don't want to pay for the extra bandwidth either. You want the ISP's to provide this massive amount of extra bandwidth at no extra cost, and you want the government to force them to. You do not care that those people who do not use voice IP or download movies do not want to pay for those services they never use, but will be forced to when the ISP is forced to pay for bandwidth provide them.

Say in an area of 500K people, 30K decide they want voice IP, and 50K decide they want to download 6 movies a week. Suppose that, due to infrastructure, available bandwidth in that area is not up to the extra load. Service for everyone suffers. So, 320K people suffer reduced service quality for the desires of 80K people, or the ISP's pay to increase the capacity through improved infrastructure, who pays for this? The ISP, in reduced profit? The 400K in increased prices? The 80K in increased prices?

You can bet your ass that if you let the FCC get deeper involved, they'll start looking at a lot more than bandwidth use. Is that what you people really want? Increased regulations by their very nature bring increased costs and increased monitoring. I'll pass, thanks.
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Old 2009-09-24, 17:45   Link #4083
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
You want the ISP's to provide this massive amount of extra bandwidth at no extra cost, and you want the government to force them to.
I never said that, nor did the FCC. I'm more than happy to have differently-priced tiers of service by speed. Providers of commercial Internet services have priced their offerings by bandwidth from day one. It costs a lot more to buy a full-time T1 or OC3 than a dialup connection. The problem is that ISPs have traditionally marketed their services to consumers on an "all-you-can-eat" model then balked when people actually used the bandwidth they were sold. If ISPs can't provide what they offer, then they need to make their marketing match technological reality and offer contracts with explicit terms of service that spell out what kind of connectivity I can expect for a given price.

What I don't want to see is ISPs being able to discriminate between IP packets based on the content they contain or based on the protocols employed. ISPs should not be permitted to "open the envelope and read the letter inside" before deciding how a packet should be routed or priced. Neither the Postal Service nor Federal Express can charge more for an envelope that contains a $10 million business contract than they do for one containing a letter to grandma. ISPs shouldn't be able to do that, either. (The technologies to do just this exist already in devices that perform so-called "deep packet inspection".) Postal services charge more for faster delivery; I'm all in favor of Internet pricing that follows the same model.

In case you hadn't noticed, support for "net neutrality" comes not just from liberal organizations like MoveOn.org but from conservative organizations like the Christian Coalition as well. They both see giving ISPs the right to discriminate based on content or protocols as having the potential to distort or suppress freedom of speech though industrial policies.

As for letting the FCC get "deeper involved," they're already involved and have been for decades. Read the articles I cited before about the development of policies concerning the convergence of computing and telecommunications then come back and talk about what the FCC should be doing.
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Old 2009-09-24, 18:24   Link #4084
autobachs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I'm all in favor of Internet pricing that follows the same model.
So, you're against net neutrality?
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Old 2009-09-24, 18:37   Link #4085
autobachs
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The price an ISP charges is up to the ISP, and it should be up to them, and not the government. If this crap passes, and they tax your Internet usage say, $5, and they tax the ISP say, $5, to cover the cost of the program, so your Internet bill goes up $10, is that okay?

This shit is so completely fucking trivial to begin with! Voice IP and "downloading movies instantly" are an absolute luxuries, there is no need or requirement!

And yet there are screams to spend more tax dollars on "net neutrality"

Of all the problems we have in this country, with all of the money wasted, we have people worried about paying extra for absolute luxuries. Our borders are porous, illegal aliens clog our health care system, our court system, and drive down our wage scale. Three quarters of a trillion dollars was pissed away on a BS stimulus package, and we're looking at trillions of dollars of debt and waste on "health care reform". The POTUS is pissing on allies and sucking off enemies, costing us the respect of both. And freaking "net neutrality" to keep the cost of bootleg movies and voice IP down is a priority? If anyone wonders how we got into the shit we're in, that's a perfect fucking example. What a joke. God damned nanny state bullshit if there ever was.
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Old 2009-09-24, 18:44   Link #4086
mg1942
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Census worker found hanged with "FED" on body. I don't know quite what to make of this.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...BlP6gD9AT92400
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Old 2009-09-24, 19:20   Link #4087
mg1942
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Quote:
If this crap passes, and they tax your Internet usage say, $5, and they tax the ISP say, $5, to cover the cost of the program, so your Internet bill goes up $10, is that okay?
FCC rule #xxxxxx doesn't equal higher taxes.

Quote:
This shit is so completely fucking trivial to begin with! Voice IP and "downloading movies instantly" are an absolute luxuries, there is no need or requirement!
It is multibillion dollar industry. It is everything but trivial. It is not a luxury unless you consider hi-speed internet a luxury (not in 21st century).

Quote:
Of all the problems we have in this country, with all of the money wasted, we have people worried about paying extra for absolute luxuries. Our borders are porous, illegal aliens clog our health care system, our court system, and drive down our wage scale. Three quarters of a trillion dollars was pissed away on a BS stimulus package, and we're looking at trillions of dollars of debt and waste on "health care reform". The POTUS is pissing on allies and sucking off enemies, costing us the respect of both. And freaking "net neutrality" to keep the cost of bootleg movies and voice IP down is a priority? If anyone wonders how we got into the shit we're in, that's a perfect fucking example. What a joke. God damned nanny state bullshit if there ever was.
You're (pardon my french) a fucking retard. Movies and VOIP were just examples (real world) of how and why packet prioritizing is done.

In short, net neutrality in 21st century equals the "FREE PRESS" in 20th.
Controlling the flow of information certain ways means power to few and suppression of free thought for many (think of China). There's a reason for a First Amendment.
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Old 2009-09-24, 20:44   Link #4088
Kamui4356
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Umm... how about no? The whole point to net neutrality is to prevent businesses from doing exactly what you're discribing there. The regulation would prevent businesses from prioritizing certain types of data, like say streaming from their own online video service, over others, like say streaming video over crunchyroll or hulu. They would still be able to charge people for faster connections and greater bandwidth, but they would not be able to charge people more based on what they do with that bandwidth or slow down certain types of data traffic. Even if what you said there was true though, why do you not trust the government with something yet trust businesses with it, when these same buusinesses have shown willingness to do anything and everything they can to exploit the consumer. It boggles the mind.
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Last edited by monir; 2009-09-25 at 13:02. Reason: quoted portion removed
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Old 2009-09-24, 21:07   Link #4089
yezhanquan
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Besides, the most "powerful" governments still cannot do one thing without their citizens' consent: collect taxes. All the force in the world cannot force a citizen to pay up if he does not do it willingly.
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Old 2009-09-24, 23:09   Link #4090
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Even if what you said there was true though, why do you not trust the government with something yet trust businesses with it, when these same buusinesses have shown willingness to do anything and everything they can to exploit the consumer. It boggles the mind.
I say lets give him to Slashdot or the SANS network security community ... the techies there would shred the illogic and just flat incorrect understandings to dust. Just amazingly jaw-dropping. I've been involved deeply with the Internet since the late 80s (via NASA then) and the recent corporatist misuse and abuse by players like Comcast has been the biggest *actual* threat to the Internet system since its inception.

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-09-25 at 11:11.
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Old 2009-09-24, 23:13   Link #4091
LynnieS
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Let's not feed the troll, all? If the thread gets too out of control, the mods will close it down to let tempers cool; either that, or chop posts out.

Madoff investors' personal data may be breached
Quote:
More than 2,200 Bernard Madoff investors are learning that some of their personal and financial information has potentially been breached after the July theft of a laptop in Dallas, Newsday has learned.

The names, addresses, Social Security numbers and some Madoff account information on 2,246 investors was contained in a computer stolen from the car of an employee of AlixPartners Llp, the consulting firm that has been processing victims' claims in the Ponzi scheme, a company spokesman, Tim Yost, said Tuesday.
No word yet if this loss actually led to someone's personal info being compromised, but really... Adding insult to injury here!
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Old 2009-09-25, 00:15   Link #4092
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Census worker found hanged with "FED" on body. I don't know quite what to make of this.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...BlP6gD9AT92400
Almost missed that this was posted. From what I've heard, he might not have actually been hanged but strangled and then hung from the tree. Apparently his body wasn't actually suspended off the ground, though it's possible he was hanged too. The most likely suspects for this are considered to be an extremist right wing survivalist group or marijuana growers in the region, but information about this is apparently hard to come by as the investigators aren't releasing much to the press. Marijuana growers I'd think would be more likely, but in that case why write fed on him like that?
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Old 2009-09-25, 00:44   Link #4093
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Almost missed that this was posted. From what I've heard, he might not have actually been hanged but strangled and then hung from the tree. Apparently his body wasn't actually suspended off the ground, though it's possible he was hanged too. The most likely suspects for this are considered to be an extremist right wing survivalist group or marijuana growers in the region, but information about this is apparently hard to come by as the investigators aren't releasing much to the press. Marijuana growers I'd think would be more likely, but in that case why write fed on him like that?
The area has a long history of being grandiosely paranoid about the "feds" and a long tradition of illegal moonshine operations that the "revenuers" (federal BATF agents and IRS) would bust up occasionally. Poor guy *may* have been simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That said.... the anti-census moonbats are sinking their own boats if they don't participate --- no participation means you don't get counted for determining Congressional Representatives and districting.
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Old 2009-09-25, 09:40   Link #4094
killer3000ad
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Iran reveals it has second nuclear enrichment plant

Apparently the US and French intelligence knew of it's existance for months. After Iran realised this, they fessed up rather be outed on later on by the West.

Last edited by killer3000ad; 2009-09-25 at 09:58.
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Old 2009-09-25, 12:23   Link #4095
solomon
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(in relation to above article, and all possible nasty implications thereof)

ooooooooooooooooooooh boy
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Old 2009-09-25, 13:06   Link #4096
monir
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What LynnieS said. Let's not entertain posts too far out there. Educating is a self-inflicting task after all. .....so let's get back to the news.

If anyone believes the topic deserves its own thread, let me know. I also seem to remember there are other threads that covered this topic quite a few times.
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Old 2009-09-25, 21:48   Link #4097
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Iran reveals it has second nuclear enrichment plant

Apparently the US and French intelligence knew of it's existance for months. After Iran realised this, they fessed up rather be outed on later on by the West.
Maybe it's just Obama's new magic. Even the Russian delegate to the UN said as much.
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Old 2009-09-25, 22:23   Link #4098
Shadow Kira01
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Japan not to simply extend refueling mission in Jan.: Hatoyama

Quote:
Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama said Friday he has no intention of simply extending the refueling mission in the Indian Ocean after the law authorizing it expires in January and that his government is looking to help the Afghan people in a way that can satisfy them as well as the United States.

''I would like to carry out support steps (for Afghanistan) that are most desired,'' Hatoyama said during a press conference in Pittsburgh, where he took part in a Group of 20 financial summit, adding that such humanitarian support as vocational training could be possible.
Quote:
On the issue of relocating some U.S. forces in Japan, Hatoyama said, ''I understand that no minute can be wasted when we think about sentiment in Okinawa.''

''I will find an answer within a certain time frame, taking into consideration feelings of people in the prefecture as well,'' he said.

After talks with U.S. President Barack Obama in New York on Wednesday, Hatoyama said the relocation issue did not come up in the meeting.

But he reiterated the next day that he still aims to move the U.S. Marine Corps' Futemma Air Station facility in Okinawa out of the prefecture, a proposal that will go against a bilateral Japan-U.S. agreement to move it within the prefecture.
Afghanistan urges Japan to continue refueling mission to fight terror

Quote:
Afghan Foreign Minister Rangin Dadfar Spanta requested in a meeting Friday with his Japanese counterpart, Katsuya Okada, that Tokyo continue its refueling mission in the Indian Ocean in support of U.S.-led antiterrorism operations in his country, according to Japan's Foreign Ministry.
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Old 2009-09-25, 23:19   Link #4099
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Kira01 View Post
Hatoyama sounds more and more like a generic politician to me. No brains and only interested in fame.

The reason why US keeps an airbase in Okinawa and not another part of Japan is for strategic purposes.

Being cut off from the mainland means the airbase would be subjected to a less likely possibility of land invasion, and with sufficient anti-air and anti-ship defence, it is already considered well defended. Another thing is that it is both near to South Korea and Taiwan, allowing a force to be effectively projected into Taiwan or South Korea in an event of invasion from NK or China. Lastly, the noise pollution from the aircraft would be "isolated" from the general population.

Hatoyama wants Japan to recover from the decade-long recession, but he also needs to realise the strategic importance of Japan in East Asia, militarily. The world isn't just run by money.
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Old 2009-09-25, 23:23   Link #4100
Cipher
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I'm hoping this is exactly what its stated there. The problem with the news is that it doesn't include *those* people's other possible *motives* and other several "minor" problematic issues.

I'm also hoping that the continuing of the refueling mission won't end in failure. There are so many complexities here that its so hard for us to understand if its truly right or wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Hatoyama sounds more and more like a generic politician to me. No brains and only interested in fame.

The reason why US keeps an airbase in Okinawa and not another part of Japan is for strategic purposes.

Being cut off from the mainland means the airbase would be subjected to a less likely possibility of land invasion, and with sufficient anti-air and anti-ship defence, it is already considered well defended. Another thing is that it is both near to South Korea and Taiwan, allowing a force to be effectively projected into Taiwan or South Korea in an event of invasion from NK or China. Lastly, the noise pollution from the aircraft would be "isolated" from the general population.

Hatoyama wants Japan to recover from the decade-long recession, but he also needs to realise the strategic importance of Japan in East Asia, militarily. The world isn't just run by money.
Why does Hatoyama want Japan to recover from the decade-long recession? Doesn't he only value fame?
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