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Old 2008-08-23, 18:11   Link #61
NewYinzer
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Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post

Does anyone have any thoughts on the economics of the Britannian Empire? I find this a much more interesting topic. I think that if we assume that expansion was not always at the forefront of the Empire's agenda, a significant part of their efforts must've been devoted to developing the economies and standards of living of their territories, so that:

1)People will not rebel as much
2)More revenue for the state
3)So that they can fund more wars for the future
I think Britannia's entire system is based off of the original 19th century version of imperialism. Imperialism was originally intended to do several things for the colonizing nation:
1. Market for trade goods (money for the motherland)
2. More resources for imperialists (Sakuradite)
3. Extend sphere of influence (getting areas close to Chinese Federation)
4. Spread culture (Area 11's culture is based largely off of the original Britannian culture, with only facets of Japan's old culture remaining)

Under this system, Britannia maximizes its power at the expense of its colonies with one exception. Rather than suck the economy of its colonies dry, settlers from the homeland are brought in to build new cities on top of the old ones. Even in the first season, the settlements are intended for the use of the Britannians and Honorary Britannians, with fully functioning malls, offices, and factories. Like Lelouch said in Season 1, the economy stabilized after the takeover of Britannia.

In history, most colonial powers made a concentrated effort to export their culture, but never developed the true economic infrastructure to build stable economies in their colonies. It is because of this the majority of independent colonies have been unable to build a truly stable economy. However, in Code Geass, Britannia built Japan everything, from solar power plants to transit systems. Thanks to this, Japan now has a stable economy with a good income for all, except in the ghettos. According to my theory, it is because of this system of improving a nation after its takeover that other colonies never rebelled.

Britannia, however, must have an exceptional economy. No oil means that Britannia must be almost self-sufficient. Electric cars and power from solar panels, made possible through the use of sakuradite, must give them an impossible advantage. The sophistication of Knightmare Frames show that Britannia must be very far along in robotics research, to the point that they probably have many factories which are totally automated with no need for human labor. Millions must work in the service sector and earn a good income. The way Britannia is structured, quality healthcare and a secure retirement are for the rich, with the poor largely having to survive on their own. Absolute Monarchy means that the average citizen must have no say in policy, ie no welfare, social security, or universal healthcare.

Britannia's government is not ladened down with welfare or similar trifles (like the emperor hinted at, those who need something like welfare are weak), allowing maximum money for its military research. Trillions can be spent on war and building new settlements in conquered areas. Every conquest brings millions more people, millions more consumers, and billions of pounds into Britannia's coffers.

To put it simply:
Britannia is America with no:
1. Opposition to its policy
2. Welfare, government funded healthcare, union labor, social security, etc.
3. Dependency on foreign oil
4. Dependency on foreign labor
5. Fossil fuels ruining the environment

Arguably the Black Rebellion should have severely disrupted the economy of Area 11, raising a number of questions:
1. How did Britannia manage to rebuild its 30 million person settlement in Tokyo in one year?
2. Why did they go to all of the trouble the second time? Wasn't Area 11 just a "Remedial Area" by that point?
3. Wouldn't millions have left Area 11 due to the instability?
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Old 2008-08-24, 00:07   Link #62
Cal-Reflector
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Originally Posted by NewYinzer View Post
...

Arguably the Black Rebellion should have severely disrupted the economy of Area 11, raising a number of questions:
1. How did Britannia manage to rebuild its 30 million person settlement in Tokyo in one year?
2. Why did they go to all of the trouble the second time? Wasn't Area 11 just a "Remedial Area" by that point?
3. Wouldn't millions have left Area 11 due to the instability?
Thanks for the input. Again, I think Britannia's policy may be flexible, depending much on the current Emperor's personality and wishes but even then not entirely, since governors, ministers, and even local civilian administrators must have a hand in managing the Empire.

Improving the quality of life of their conquered subjects as part of a larger goal of increasing the Empire's self-sufficiency (remember when the rest of the world placed an embargo on Britannia?), wealth, and strength seems reasonable (not out of altruism). Arrogant and expansion though the Britannian State (I differentiate from its general populace) may be, it's difficult to imagine that Britannia would have enjoyed such success if their economic system was merely draconian and not sound/focused on development. So from that stance, I think the Britannian state may subsidize the welfare of its subjects to some extent, not all subjects being equal.

Income tax: Suppose that... Borne and naturalized Britannians pay a 20% flat tax with a generous exemption for low-income brackets (let's say 10,000 Pounds). Honorary Britannians pay a 25-35% flat tax with a less generous exemption, depending on the status of their area; for instance, Area 1 pays less than Area 15 for "good behavior" and length of time under the banner. Numbered persons pay 40% flat tax with no exemptions. A system like this would 1)Advance the quality of life for Britannians 2)Give incentive for Honorary Britannians to "behave" 3)Give incentive for Numbers to become HBs and 4)Maintain the class divides by disadvantaging the Numbers.

The role of oil in the world of Geass is unclear. Sakuradite makes electric power far more efficient than what we are familiar with, enabling solar power to become a viable substitute for our coal/gasoline/nuclear generators, but that doesn't mean fossil fuel is valueless.

In response to your questions: No idea. Sunrise likely isn't concerned with making their world realistic.
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Old 2008-08-24, 01:28   Link #63
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Has anyone else thought of the possibility that Britannia was just a way to represent the western world and their conquering of Japan and attempt at conquering China were ways to represent the cultural dominance that the west has had on the east in the modern era. It seems that the entire west is painted as the enemy and the heroes of Code Geass are all Asian nations.

I could just be reading too far into the show. ^^;;
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Old 2008-08-24, 17:20   Link #64
aznegglover
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Originally Posted by Gundampilotspaz View Post
Has anyone else thought of the possibility that Britannia was just a way to represent the western world and their conquering of Japan and attempt at conquering China were ways to represent the cultural dominance that the west has had on the east in the modern era. It seems that the entire west is painted as the enemy and the heroes of Code Geass are all Asian nations.

I could just be reading too far into the show. ^^;;
This might be because it airs in an Asian nation o-0
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Old 2008-08-26, 20:33   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Gundampilotspaz View Post
Has anyone else thought of the possibility that Britannia was just a way to represent the western world and their conquering of Japan and attempt at conquering China were ways to represent the cultural dominance that the west has had on the east in the modern era. It seems that the entire west is painted as the enemy and the heroes of Code Geass are all Asian nations.

I could just be reading too far into the show. ^^;;
Haha might be their way of calling the white European man as evil assholes with out having to say it to their faces >_>. So when we hate on Britannia we are kind of hating on the U.S. and ourselves lol....aw....made myself feel bad.
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Old 2008-08-27, 16:08   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Gundampilotspaz View Post
Has anyone else thought of the possibility that Britannia was just a way to represent the western world and their conquering of Japan and attempt at conquering China were ways to represent the cultural dominance that the west has had on the east in the modern era. It seems that the entire west is painted as the enemy and the heroes of Code Geass are all Asian nations.

I could just be reading too far into the show. ^^;;
Well, I think Britannia looks like 1900s european colonialist powers like France or Britain. Britannian policy for areas looks like a compromise between French and English colonial policies: areas are not semi-independant sattelite states neither simple subdivision of Britannian administration.

That's remember me some arguments use by japanese propagande during World War Two about european colonialism in pacific and in favor of Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere (Lelouch made an allusion in turn 10.)

However I don't believe it's some kind of anti-occidentalism because
1) well around half of the cast is western (Britannian)
2) well the most important characters are Brits, the big bad but the "true innocents" to
3) the most important "asian" characters are Kallen (she is half-brit) and Suzaku (he is honorary brit)
4) important or badass asian character are not well develloped (Todo and Xingke are the best but...)

And we need to remember that Japan is seeing as a mid-occidental country by fellow asian countries, then.
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Old 2008-08-27, 16:38   Link #67
Darkcraft
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why looking back so far in colonial history or try to globalize with asia/west
Most of young fans and world forums about CG in asia, EU and Middle east are looking "CG as the only good thing to come out of the Iraq oil war".
I use " " cause it isn't my words but just a translation
who have ressources and who have the nuke actually?
world situation helps creators to have the starting idea and they build around
thats simplist but that made sell well like the game "assasin" where you are a muslim assasin that kill Christians during crusades : a world hit and their creators explain well how they get the idea for this game

That said its also a false impression and its more elaborate cause the political situation in the series mirrors many occupation scenarios, even some, like one of the most hardest with Korea from 1910 to 1945, in which the Japanese were the occupying military power. Suzuku's part is especially troubling because he has decided to side with at times brutal occupaing force, a decision that many 'good' people have made in Ireland, England, Isral/Palestine, France and many other countries forced to live at the 'pleasure' of another society far, far away which may not have their best interests at heart.

All this shows that colonialism and occupations style are worldwide and have also difference like history show it but you find a bit of all of them in CG.
Thats a good starting plot for a good scenario. but after you have to find a story for 50 episode, mechas,romance,comedy,cliffhangers and fictions so you are in an animé and you have nothing to find as truth in this. Empire of Brittania is just another ZAFT but on earth

Last edited by Darkcraft; 2008-08-27 at 17:08.
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Old 2008-09-03, 02:26   Link #68
kaefer_zwei
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The Empire of Britannia is probably the most succesful nation in the world of CG. I still believe that the invasion and occupation of Japan was a crucial step in breaking the stalemate between the world superpowers. If Japan had not been conquered the world would have been in a war of attrition, all sides would have suffered immensely.
Even before the invasion of The Britannian Empire, China was poised to strike and take hold of Japan.
Japan is probably the center piece in CG because it produced half of the worlds sakuradite, a crucial mineral to power their advance society.
Japan was actually hording the valuable resource, this led to its inevitable demise.
In that sense justifies the invasion of Japan. It was not merely because of racism and hatred that Britannia invaded Japan but struggle for world dominance and probably peace at a distant far sight.
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Old 2008-09-03, 02:30   Link #69
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Originally Posted by kaefer_zwei View Post
The Empire of Britannia is probably the most succesful nation in the world of CG. I still believe that the invasion and occupation of Japan was a crucial step in breaking the stalemate between the world superpowers. If Japan had not been conquered the world would have been in a war of attrition, all sides would have suffered immensely.
Even before the invasion of The Britannian Empire, China was poised to strike and take hold of Japan.
Japan is probably the center piece in CG because it produced half of the worlds sakuradite, a crucial mineral to power their advance society.
Japan was actually hording the valuable resource, this led to its inevitable demise.
In that sense justifies the invasion of Japan. It was not merely because of racism and hatred that Britannia invaded Japan but struggle for world dominance and probably peace at a distant far sight.
I... I'm shocked.

That's the first post you've made without ending each sentence with a "..."

Anyways... as good a point you raise, it all means moot since it was just a coverup to gain access to the Thought Elevator hidden on Kaminejima Island.
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Old 2008-09-03, 18:27   Link #70
SoldierOfDarkness
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All of the invasions were cover-ups for the Geass Ruins.
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Old 2008-09-06, 05:16   Link #71
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One thing, why is the British/English nation caLled "Britannia" in CG, and why is it an empire? Only romans called the British isles "Britannia", and as far as I recall, medieval Britain was a monarchy, except for the titles "Empress of India" or something which I believe was given to some Queens. Also, an England/British Isles united by a celtic/anglo-saxon/germanic emperor and there by resisting Roman control should not have any British characteristics, as surely they would resist the invasion of Normandy, which I believe is the source of much of the British culture.

As far as I recall, Britain, much like Ireland/Scotland had picts/celts/gaels/anglo-saxons whom had a more tribal culture than the imperialistic Britannia in CG.
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Old 2009-09-26, 10:25   Link #72
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One thing, why is the British/English nation caLled "Britannia" in CG, and why is it an empire? Only romans called the British isles "Britannia", and as far as I recall, medieval Britain was a monarchy, except for the titles "Empress of India" or something which I believe was given to some Queens. Also, an England/British Isles united by a celtic/anglo-saxon/germanic emperor and there by resisting Roman control should not have any British characteristics, as surely they would resist the invasion of Normandy, which I believe is the source of much of the British culture.

As far as I recall, Britain, much like Ireland/Scotland had picts/celts/gaels/anglo-saxons whom had a more tribal culture than the imperialistic Britannia in CG.
Britannia is the Roman name for the largest Island in the British Isles; Britain; and the name Britannia is often used in formal language; most heraldic mottos are in Latin for Instance; as is the song "Rule Britannia!".

Medieval Britain was a Monarchy, but during the 1600s, Britain like other European powers began to expand into the New World and the Orient.
The British Empire was the British Isles, British holdings in Europe, the Americas, Africa, Asia, Antarctica and Oceania. An emperor is a monarch also. The current Queen is Queen of the United Kingdom, Queen of the (remaining) Empire, Head of the Commonwealth, head of the Anglican Church, and Duke of Normandy.

Britannia is code geass holds few similarities with the culture of the british empire, and can be assumed to be more of an Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Pictish state.
Modern british culture is derived from Anglo-saxon and Norman culture, but has changed so much it now bears no similarity.

Britain ceased being a tribal nation by the late 800s. When the romans invaded England and Wales the celtic tribes just became Romano-Britons. When the legions left, and the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes and other norse/gothic tribes arrived they soon settled and created their own kingdoms like Mercia, Northumbria, The York Danewald, Wessex, Anglia etc, losing their tribal affiliations.

by the time of the British empire, British people just called themselves English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, or used the place they came from, likre Scousers, Londoners, Mancunians, Yorkers etc. to indentify themselves.

Now however its moving back the other way, there's veyr little British nationalism, perhaps its a good thing.
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Old 2009-09-26, 10:31   Link #73
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also the full name of the Britannian Empire is THE HOLY EMPIRE OF BRITANNIA; which sounds more like the Holy Roman Empire aka the First Reich.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:15   Link #74
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All hail Britannia!
I always felt like they were alluding to the US everytime I watched the show...
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:26   Link #75
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All hail Britannia!
I always felt like they were alluding to the US everytime I watched the show...
Well, you must remember that, comparatively speaking, Japan is a fairly xenophobic country. This attitude has cropped in a number of other Japanese anime and TV shows. I mean, c'mon, we did bomb the sh*t out of them about 70 years ago.
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Old 2009-09-27, 03:46   Link #76
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Well, you must remember that, comparatively speaking, Japan is a fairly xenophobic country. This attitude has cropped in a number of other Japanese anime and TV shows. I mean, c'mon, we did bomb the sh*t out of them about 70 years ago.
Twice. We bombed them twice.

And yeah, they are pretty xenophobic, even since before the World Wars. After getting locked up for 300 years or so, can you be surprised?
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Old 2009-09-27, 13:27   Link #77
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Twice. We bombed them twice.
Right. One for Hiroshima, one for Nagasaki, right? Cause if there was any other time we bombed them that's news to me.
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Old 2009-09-27, 15:40   Link #78
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We nuked them twice, but we carpet bombed them before that almost daily and they still wouldn't surrender. I guess Japanese people are stubborn in RL too, not just CG.
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Old 2009-09-27, 21:51   Link #79
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Well the only way i can consulate myself, is think of Britannia as the USA but with a monarchy system that would make a Republican wet himself with love and that Zero is the incarnation of a True Brit. I hope he crush the Empire! Viva Zero!
You have no idea what a Republican is.
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Old 2009-09-27, 23:39   Link #80
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Britannia has more in common with Imperial Japan than the British Empire or any other European empire. The British were brutal but the Japanese were just on whole different level.

If they designed Britannia as a way to take a jab at the US then they failed horribly, because if we had anything in common with the Empire we would've never given them their country back and made them another Puerto Rico at the end of WWII.
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