AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 63 45.32%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 45 32.37%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 18 12.95%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 7.19%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-09-27, 07:57   Link #141
Christen
Endless Nine
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a certain tropical island
Age: 29
I'm just wondering why they changed the way Rosa gave her story on how Beatrice died from the VN to the anime. The VN indicated that Rosa and Beatrice were climbing down the cliff, and since Beato's clothes will naturally get in the way, she fell easily.

Maybe changing it has a significance
Christen is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 08:48   Link #142
RikaNipah
Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland.
Age: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to RikaNipah
Yeah I agree.
Maybe Rosa just felt like she killed her, because if she didn't encourage her to come out of her mansion then she would never have fell and died.
Without Rosa there would be no evil Beato..we need evil Beato!

RikaNipah is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 09:08   Link #143
SnEptUne
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
This still doesn't make sense. If the old lady is a witch as well, how does she get killed so easily by zombie Kanon in the previous episode?

And just how old is Beato anyway? If she is 10 when old lady was still a witch, does that means Beato is 30ish when Rosa "killed her" because the old lady looks like 70 years old right now. If that's the case, Beato is just a young lady, not a billion years old mummy.
SnEptUne is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 09:37   Link #144
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnEptUne View Post
This still doesn't make sense. If the old lady is a witch as well, how does she get killed so easily by zombie Kanon in the previous episode?

And just how old is Beato anyway? If she is 10 when old lady was still a witch, does that means Beato is 30ish when Rosa "killed her" because the old lady looks like 70 years old right now. If that's the case, Beato is just a young lady, not a billion years old mummy.
Spoiler:
Workworkwork is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 10:10   Link #145
jeroz
Art Block Specialist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
that's one part I don't really understand. The relationship between the teacher Beatrice and Kumasawa. If I treat it as symbolism, it's fair to deduct who Beatrice might be. If I purely looks into it from a fantasy perspective, I would need more information to be given in the next episode.
__________________
She's not Mary Sue, she's Hajime-su!
jeroz is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 10:35   Link #146
Leinne
Who... am I?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zaragoza, Spain
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
that's one part I don't really understand. The relationship between the teacher Beatrice and Kumasawa. If I treat it as symbolism, it's fair to deduct who Beatrice might be. If I purely looks into it from a fantasy perspective, I would need more information to be given in the next episode.
Don't worry, next episode will help you undertand more than that, so don't wory
__________________
Leinne is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 11:31   Link #147
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnEptUne View Post
This still doesn't make sense. If the old lady is a witch as well, how does she get killed so easily by zombie Kanon in the previous episode?

And just how old is Beato anyway? If she is 10 when old lady was still a witch, does that means Beato is 30ish when Rosa "killed her" because the old lady looks like 70 years old right now. If that's the case, Beato is just a young lady, not a billion years old mummy.
Genji in the first game said that Beatrice died a lot earlier than 1967
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 11:42   Link #148
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnEptUne View Post
This still doesn't make sense. If the old lady is a witch as well, how does she get killed so easily by zombie Kanon in the previous episode?

And just how old is Beato anyway? If she is 10 when old lady was still a witch, does that means Beato is 30ish when Rosa "killed her" because the old lady looks like 70 years old right now. If that's the case, Beato is just a young lady, not a billion years old mummy.
I agree with the other spoiler. Beato had to die to fully break the seal and awaken. Maybe Teacher was also sealed and dying in the other 2 episodes finally got her awaken.

Now we are down to 17 visible humans + 1 witch and not 18 humans as we were led to believe so we are missing someone imo.
__________________
orion is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 12:23   Link #149
Iromaru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Now we are down to 17 visible humans + 1 witch and not 18 humans as we were led to believe so we are missing someone imo.
That's a good point. Taking this even further: what if Beatrice don't count "furnitures" as humans? That would mean there are 3+ people on the island we haven't seen yet.
Iromaru is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 12:25   Link #150
vandakiara
time waits for no one <3
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal, Lisbon
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
That's a good point. Taking this even further: what if Beatrice don't count "furnitures" as humans? That would mean there are 3+ people on the island we haven't seen yet.
furniture counts as humans, believe me
__________________
SOTM 2011 February -
- Couples <3


____________________

vandakiara's attic ~
pwease visit :3


____________________


Believing oneself to be perfect is...
often the sign of a delusional mind
vandakiara is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 14:17   Link #151
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandakiara
furniture counts as humans, believe me
There's nothing in the anime series to prove so, so it actually could go either way (and given how Beatrice is so adamant on not considering furniture as humans it wouldn't be that far fetched. It'd be an interesting twist I say. And yes, I am a game player.
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 14:39   Link #152
vandakiara
time waits for no one <3
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal, Lisbon
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
There's nothing in the anime series to prove so, so it actually could go either way (and given how Beatrice is so adamant on not considering furniture as humans it wouldn't be that far fetched. It'd be an interesting twist I say. And yes, I am a game player.
hmm well I'll quote what was said on the spoilers thread then:

"Just to clarify something I said on the episode 13 thread...

In the Anime episode 13, they changed the red about "There are no more than 18 humans on this island" so that it doesn't include the word human (so just "people" in general, literally speaking).

Maybe this has some significance, but I doubt it. (...)"

the original post can be seen here but it may contain spoilers for some...

well if it's people in general then it's got to mean furniture is included as well... I believe ryukishi07 made that change in the anime so people would stop speculating about loopholes on the red truth...
__________________
SOTM 2011 February -
- Couples <3


____________________

vandakiara's attic ~
pwease visit :3


____________________


Believing oneself to be perfect is...
often the sign of a delusional mind
vandakiara is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 15:35   Link #153
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
But if the speaker considers furniture as an object and not a person, then the count is still not correct. (After all, the count is coming from the speaker's perspective.) The witch issue also brings on the count issue imo.
__________________
orion is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 15:47   Link #154
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
But if the speaker considers furniture as an object and not a person, then the count is still not correct. (After all, the count is coming from the speaker's perspective.) The witch issue also brings on the count issue imo.
It should be made clear.

'Furniture' is a term that witches use to refer to their servants. Because Kinzo is into that sort of thing he calls his servants (Genji, Shannon and Kanon) furniture. Kanon calling himself furniture should be seen more as a complex. You don't actually believe he's a chair, right?
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 15:51   Link #155
June 1983
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Warwick, RI
Age: 31
Seriously, I'm pretty much 99% certain that the count includes "furniture". For a couple of reasons:

1) I'm fairly certain I've read that Ryukishi doesn't want people to fixate on finding weird loopholes in the red truth, as that is a dead end (if anyone remembers what I'm talking about, I think he said something along those lines in an interview?)

2) If you are arguing from an anti-fantasy perspective (which I would assume you are, otherwise, why would you care about figuring out what this new red truth means? Beatrice did it, the end, it doesn't matter how many people are on the island), then there's no such thing as "furniture" which looks human and isn't.

3) Furthermore I should draw your attention to the fact that if you are, again, looking for the anti-fantasy solution, the count does NOT now come at 17 + a witch. Because there's no witch! It's 18 people, and Battler either has to prove that one or more of the 18 human beings that he doesn't want to doubt is the culprit, or somehow prove that one or some of the 18 people he believes to be on the island actually aren't, in order to make room for Mystery Killer "X".
June 1983 is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 16:09   Link #156
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
Seriously, I'm pretty much 99% certain that the count includes "furniture". For a couple of reasons:

1) I'm fairly certain I've read that Ryukishi doesn't want people to fixate on finding weird loopholes in the red truth, as that is a dead end (if anyone remembers what I'm talking about, I think he said something along those lines in an interview?)

2) If you are arguing from an anti-fantasy perspective (which I would assume you are, otherwise, why would you care about figuring out what this new red truth means? Beatrice did it, the end, it doesn't matter how many people are on the island), then there's no such thing as "furniture" which looks human and isn't.

3) Furthermore I should draw your attention to the fact that if you are, again, looking for the anti-fantasy solution, the count does NOT now come at 17 + a witch. Because there's no witch! It's 18 people, and Battler either has to prove that one or more of the 18 human beings that he doesn't want to doubt is the culprit, or somehow prove that one or some of the 18 people he believes to be on the island actually aren't, in order to make room for Mystery Killer "X".
What I mean is that Kanon, Shannon and Genji aren't furniture, it's just a complex.

But yes 'furniture' counts to the people count :P
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 16:17   Link #157
June 1983
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Warwick, RI
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
What I mean is that Kanon, Shannon and Genji aren't furniture, it's just a complex.

But yes 'furniture' counts to the people count :P
I wasn't replying specifically to you, but to the people who were speculating they didn't count as humans.
June 1983 is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 16:37   Link #158
Arbane the Terrible
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
3) Furthermore I should draw your attention to the fact that if you are, again, looking for the anti-fantasy solution, the count does NOT now come at 17 + a witch. Because there's no witch! It's 18 people,
18 _or less_ people. Beatrice said "There are no more than 18 people on this Rokkenjima." The problem there being that we've seen everyone before the killings started...
Arbane the Terrible is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 17:28   Link #159
RikaNipah
Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland.
Age: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to RikaNipah
It's still confusing though. In that group of 18 people there was Kumasawa and she was a witch. Um?..

RikaNipah is offline  
Old 2009-09-27, 17:31   Link #160
RikaNipah
Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland.
Age: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to RikaNipah
Sorry for the double post, I get it now.

*nods*
RikaNipah is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.