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Old 2009-09-29, 01:06   Link #20081
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Stop bitching. I have a life too.

Spoiler for September the Fifth, Day 4: Hallway- The Ponytailed Girl, Again/Hallway- The Pretty Girl, Again:


These are pretty much the same scene, just with Kyon's conclusion to the events being totally different.

The reason for this is because of how Kyon is introduced to each of them originally... whereas he sees Kyonko as just some girl just stealing his shoes, he immediately suspects that Itsuko is important.

This, in turn, is because Itsuko is the hottest thing in this game, and Kyon is very, very shallow.
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Old 2009-09-29, 01:34   Link #20082
Antenor
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Back from the dead to give a few comments, take it as you may Kaisos. University will be the end of me!

Good write-up. I love the dialogue in this one, especially Itsuko's fourth-wall-shattering remark. Pacing is good too. I love how different yet similar the tone is between Kyon's narration and Kyonko's. Good job.

However, something has bugged me ever since you posted the parts full of green text a few months(?) ago: you seem to like it a lot... Perhaps a little too much? Especially when Kyonko's turning crazy. I understand the tone and rhythm is part of the narrative... But if you slip key plot elements in there, there's a big risk people will do like I did on my first read-up: they'll skip most of it. LONG LIVE THE GREEN, but keep the reader in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
This, in turn, is because Itsuko is the hottest thing in this game, and Kyon is very, very shallow.
Find me a 16-year-old boy who isn't shallow in some way. People tend to forget Kyon's actual age... The guy's just full of hormones!
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Old 2009-09-29, 01:37   Link #20083
DJ_RockmanX
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Back from the dead indeed. And you aren't the only one who's tired of greentext. Luckily, I have my own plans that will be set into motion soon.
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Old 2009-09-29, 01:43   Link #20084
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antenor View Post
However, something has bugged me ever since you posted the parts full of green text a few months(?) ago: you seem to like it a lot... Perhaps a little too much? Especially when Kyonko's turning crazy. I understand the tone and rhythm is part of the narrative... But if you slip key plot elements in there, there's a big risk people will do like I did on my first read-up: they'll skip most of it. LONG LIVE THE GREEN, but keep the reader in mind.
Don't forget this is a visual novel... visuals and music make all the difference to parts that would otherwise be uninteresting to read. (See: Legend of the Golden Witch.)

And we planned to make the Greentext intrusive... maybe I'll have the programmers make it immune to the Ctrl key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antenor View Post
Find me a 16-year-old boy who isn't shallow in some way. People tend to forget Kyon's actual age... The guy's just full of hormones!
No, seriously. It's Kyon's major character flaw. He just downplays it in his (biased) narration.

Why does he talk to Haruhi in the first place? Because he wants to ask her out.

Why does he pay so much attention to Mikuru? Because she's hot.

Why does he hate Koizumi? Because he's not a girl.


Kyon IS a good person, but my god is he shallow.
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Old 2009-09-29, 01:48   Link #20085
Antenor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Back from the dead indeed. And you aren't the only one who's tired of greentext. Luckily, I have my own plans that will be set into motion soon.
It,s nice to be back! A student's life is a hard life... especially when you double it up with full-time work. I've been lurking, but I wish I could have done more than that though. But it's nice to see that we're somewhat focused now. I'm ignoring the Tsuji-Macbeth for the sake of the argument.

Anyways, green text is not that annoying, but I just feel it was overused in those scenes. It just went from ominous to slightly obnoxious.
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Old 2009-09-29, 02:05   Link #20086
Antenor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Don't forget this is a visual novel... visuals and music make all the difference to parts that would otherwise be uninteresting to read. (See: Legend of the Golden Witch.)

And we planned to make the Greentext intrusive... maybe I'll have the programmers make it immune to the Ctrl key.
I'm aware it's a visual novel.

Anyways, what irks me about the green text is not how intrusive it is: it's the sheer volume of seemingly useless GOING CRAZY banter. I think I know what you want to accomplish... But I know most people will skim it and miss plot points, or just plain ignoreit (if you make it too annoying). The scene is still very early into the novel, when there's no big emotional investment in the work yet. You're in danger of losing readers altogether if you make it too obnoxious.

This is a matter of writing style, I guess.

(Sorry if I sound judgemental, Kaisos. I'm a Communications student, so this is pretty much applied theory. It's fun to do! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Kyon IS a good person, but my god is he shallow.
Can't argue with that, just stating it's a very common flaw in his age range.
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Last edited by Antenor; 2009-09-29 at 02:15. Reason: 3AM, second langage, do the math.
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Old 2009-09-29, 02:17   Link #20087
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antenor View Post
What irks me is not how intrusive it is: it's the sheer volume of seemingly useless GOING CRAZY banter. I think I know what you want to accomplish... But I know most people will skim it and miss plot points, or just plain despise it (if you make it too annoying). The scene is still very early into the novel, where people don't have as much emotional investment in the work. You're in danger of losing readers altogether if you make it too obnoxious.
Bah. It's supposed to be sudden and intrusive and make no sense. That's half the point of that scene.

I'm not toning it down at this stage. The game rarely gets that bad ever again, and the entire scene, as a whole, is a plot point in and of itself.

The text is line by line, as well. It's... a lot more difficult to skim that way, in all honesty.

If you have other recommendations, especially on how to make that scene not boring, then I'd be glad to hear them. For example, how exactly is it "obnoxious"?
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Old 2009-09-29, 02:29   Link #20088
vivify93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos
Kyon IS a good person, but my god is he shallow.
Thankfully, I'm shallow as well.

...As is evidenced by my fangirlsm of Haruki.
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Old 2009-09-29, 02:43   Link #20089
Binjovi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antenor View Post
I'm aware it's a visual novel.

Anyways, what irks me about the green text is not how intrusive it is: it's the sheer volume of seemingly useless GOING CRAZY banter. I think I know what you want to accomplish... But I know most people will skim it and miss plot points, or just plain ignoreit (if you make it too annoying). The scene is still very early into the novel, when there's no big emotional investment in the work yet. You're in danger of losing readers altogether if you make it too obnoxious.
Maybe I'm a more dedicated reader than the average person or something, but I haven't once thought of Greentext as annoying or long-winded. If you could point to some examples, perhaps I could see where you're coming from.
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Old 2009-09-29, 02:54   Link #20090
Antenor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binjovi View Post
Maybe I'm a more dedicated reader than the average person or something, but I haven't once thought of Greentext as annoying or long-winded. If you could point to some examples, perhaps I could see where you're coming from.
It's safe to say that everyone in this thread is more dedicated than the average reader; we have emotional involment in this VN-to-be. Heck, I wouldn't be analyzing this if I didn't want it to work, would I?

Anyways, I need some sleep... The complete answer -- with proof! -- will have to wait, sorry.
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Old 2009-09-29, 03:10   Link #20091
Heatth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Stop bitching. I have a life too.

Spoiler for September the Fifth, Day 4: Hallway- The Ponytailed Girl, Again/Hallway- The Pretty Girl, Again:


These are pretty much the same scene, just with Kyon's conclusion to the events being totally different.

The reason for this is because of how Kyon is introduced to each of them originally... whereas he sees Kyonko as just some girl just stealing his shoes, he immediately suspects that Itsuko is important.

This, in turn, is because Itsuko is the hottest thing in this game, and Kyon is very, very shallow.
Good scene. Kyon is really shallow, so tis make this scene be somewhat funny. Specially because the most important girl there is Kyonko, not Itsuko. And it was her who was one of the intruders of the last day.

Also, somewhat interesting how you compressed "Missing Shoes" in a single line, insted a whole scene.


There is one more thing is buging me since a few scenes ago. In The Answers (IV), we learn Itsuko make contact with the Organization. She obviously don't see any problem talking with people from the other world, as long they are not Suzumiya. She even censored Kyonko and Yuuki for fleeing, when it would be more simpler stay and talk. But then, why she did hide her identity from Kyon (beside plot device, I mean)? Wouldn't be better for her just call him for a chat and explain everyting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binjovi View Post
Maybe I'm a more dedicated reader than the average person or something, but I haven't once thought of Greentext as annoying or long-winded. If you could point to some examples, perhaps I could see where you're coming from.
I, by the other side, was kinda tired reading that crazy scene. I think I even skiped a few lines.

I am far from being an avarage reader, tough. This might be because the scene is too long. Making the reading kinda tiresome for me. And, as Kaisos said, in the actuall game is harder to miss anything.
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Old 2009-09-29, 03:45   Link #20092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
There is one more thing is buging me since a few scenes ago. In The Answers (IV), we learn Itsuko make contact with the Organization. She obviously don't see any problem talking with people from the other world, as long they are not Suzumiya. She even censored Kyonko and Yuuki for fleeing, when it would be more simpler stay and talk. But then, why she did hide her identity from Kyon (beside plot device, I mean)? Wouldn't be better for her just call him for a chat and explain everyting?
There are at least two possibilities for why she would do that:

1. She already told Taniguchi and Kunikida that her name was Yamada and she made the connection early on that those two were probably the same as Kyonko's friends. She obviously knew who Kyon was and would also suspect that he would share a class with Taniguchi and Kunikida on this side as well. So, in order to remove any confusion down the road, she has decided to use the fake name for the time being.

2. It's obvious that sometime prior to meeting Kyon on the street that morning, Itsuko contacted Itsuki's Organization. There was no way for her to have made contact during her previous jump to the other side where she met Taniguchi and Kunikida, so it must have been the night after the final ripple. It's possible the Organization requested/suggested that she not give out her true identity to anyone. Since Kyonko had given her the name Yamada previously, it would make sense that she would just roll with that to alleviate confusion.
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Old 2009-09-29, 03:54   Link #20093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binjovi View Post
1. She already told Taniguchi and Kunikida that her name was Yamada and she made the connection early on that those two were probably the same as Kyonko's friends. She obviously knew who Kyon was and would also suspect that he would share a class with Taniguchi and Kunikida on this side as well. So, in order to remove any confusion down the road, she has decided to use the fake name for the time being.
She could give hime the fake name and still explaning it to Kyon, you know. The name is, actually, prettymuch irrelevant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binjovi View Post
2. It's obvious that sometime prior to meeting Kyon on the street that morning, Itsuko contacted Itsuki's Organization. There was no way for her to have made contact during her previous jump to the other side where she met Taniguchi and Kunikida, so it must have been the night after the final ripple. It's possible the Organization requested/suggested that she not give out her true identity to anyone. Since Kyonko had given her the name Yamada previously, it would make sense that she would just roll with that to alleviate confusion.
This make more sense, I guess. You are assuming the Oranization ask her to keep secret right? However, while this make sense to the ORganization (they be relativelly more powerful if they are the only who have that information), that wouldn't explain why she asked to Mitsuuru and Yuuki to also contact their bosses (which is pretty much the same as telling to Mikuru/Yuki).
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Old 2009-09-29, 04:09   Link #20094
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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I think it's just that they don't think Kyon really needs to know about this at the current time, until they determine for certain if Itsuko is really who and what she says she is.

An optional scene on Day 5 will kind of address this, actually.

Spoiler for September the Fifth, Day 4: Hallway: A Familiar Laugh:


I would remind everyone, or inform those who don't know, to keep in mind that this scene normally only triggers after you've beaten six routes, though this restriction will be removed for the demo.

I'm not actually that pleased with how this turned out, but what can you do, it's too early and I'm sleep-deprived and exhibiting the physical symptoms of stress.

Enjoy. And yes, I am a proponent of the Kansai dialect = Southern drawl translation convention.

(Those who have been paying attention up till now should draw a fair few conclusions from this scene, heh.)
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Old 2009-09-29, 04:26   Link #20095
Joe4evr
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Tsuruya: Sure, life is funny.
Well, I saw that one coming.
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Old 2009-09-29, 04:27   Link #20096
vivify93
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Tsuruya with a Southern drawl...fits somehow.

I'm sticking by my "Sir Slangalot" style though.
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Old 2009-09-29, 04:30   Link #20097
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Well, I saw that one coming.
That comment referring to this? If so, good eye.

I've mentioned it before, but that fanfic was probably my major inspiration for the VN to begin with.
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Old 2009-09-29, 06:18   Link #20098
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I think it's just that they don't think Kyon really needs to know about this at the current time, until they determine for certain if Itsuko is really who and what she says she is.

An optional scene on Day 5 will kind of address this, actually.

Spoiler for September the Fifth, Day 4: Hallway: A Familiar Laugh:


I would remind everyone, or inform those who don't know, to keep in mind that this scene normally only triggers after you've beaten six routes, though this restriction will be removed for the demo.

I'm not actually that pleased with how this turned out, but what can you do, it's too early and I'm sleep-deprived and exhibiting the physical symptoms of stress.

Enjoy. And yes, I am a proponent of the Kansai dialect = Southern drawl translation convention.

(Those who have been paying attention up till now should draw a fair few conclusions from this scene, heh.)
As usual, Tsuruya is awesome.
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Old 2009-09-29, 06:24   Link #20099
Khu
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I JUST REALISED THESE ARE FOR A VN LOL

Holy crap how stupid of me ><

But why is it in genderbending then?
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Old 2009-09-29, 06:27   Link #20100
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'Cause it has the seitenkan characters in it as well? There's an index somewhere if you go and read all of them.
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