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Old 2009-10-04, 05:57   Link #421
Uchiha Soul
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my Q is abt Battler & Meta Battler.. Are they same person who in and out from the game (story)? OR they related to each other mentally? OR they're acting independent, as Battler that is inside the story doesnt know abt Meta Battler and the whole game that is repeated 3 times till now?
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Old 2009-10-04, 06:11   Link #422
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Meta-Battler is basically a collection of Battler's memories, kinda like with Frederica and Rika if you've seen Higurashi. Meta-Battler and Battler don't actually communicate (I'm quite sure)
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Old 2009-10-04, 06:15   Link #423
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Right now we can say that Meta Battler is the 'Battler' who first lost against the Golden Witch and challenged her to a duel.
The other Battlers we have seen so far are only chesspieces within the bounds of Rokkenjima during the days of the tragedy.

Meta-Battler is watching the story unfold and as we have seen he often enough crumbles at the sight of his folks not even remotely recognizing what is happening around them. Therefore we can safely assume that IF Meta-Battler has influence on Piece-Battler it is rather small and maybe just limited to certain mood swings.
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Old 2009-10-04, 07:48   Link #424
Uchiha Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
Meta-Battler is watching the story unfold and as we have seen he often enough crumbles at the sight of his folks not even remotely recognizing what is happening around them. Therefore we can safely assume that IF Meta-Battler has influence on Piece-Battler it is rather small and maybe just limited to certain mood swings.
yeah .. i asked the question bcoz in 2nd time (Halloween story) when Meta Battler got upset and confused, Piece Battler surrendered .. so i assumed there is some relation between them .. i dont know

i really confused, at the end of Halloween story when Beato made Battler her furniture and the ceremony began .. first Genji was there welcoming her with the other furniture (i dont know what kind of creatures) i didnt see him die? 2nd after she ordered her furnitures to kill Battler and his grand pa, why she surprised when she saw Meta Battler? if Meta B & Piece B are totally independent then even if Piece B died there is no effect on Meta B as long as he doesnt believe in magic and witches UNLESS the game is depend on Piece Battler action & Meta Battler mind.
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Old 2009-10-04, 08:02   Link #425
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Eh you made a good point. Unfortunately I don't think there is any fact that can be shown in this case. There are only interpretations. There are things that would make you think the two Battlers are separate entities and others that would make you think they are closely connected. For a definitive answer we will probably need to see the end of the story, and maybe even there it won't be that clear ^^;
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Old 2009-10-04, 12:45   Link #426
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IMO there are 2 aspects that get mixed here regarding the observations of Battler and Meta-Battler.

On the on hand there are small hints that the characters in Umineko seem to "learn" from there past experiences simular to Higurashi but with drastically less influence on the story development. Its not like the really know anything about earlier iterations but more like "Karma is their friend". They seem to realize problems / conflicts / solutions much faster in later games but IMO thats more of a story device to cut down all the boring repetition of the mystery analysis the people of the island otherwise had to do every time. Its more like "pushing" them in the right direction by inserting new influential elements.

On the other hand Battler and Meta-Battler are becoming (logically speaking) totally separate entities because Battler gets reset to "no knowledge" every time and does never develop very much "ingame" while Meta-Battler is the collection of all his experiences and will go on changing. Guess there is no way to keep them consistent without a deus ex machina or some very strange events on the chessboard.

When Battler starts to see how the whole puzzle fit in the final game (assuming it will play out like this ), they may even contradict themselves in some points... Would be an interesting development but also quite unlikely it gets presented that way.
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Old 2009-10-04, 21:34   Link #427
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piece Battler's memories should go to meta battler's brain once piece battler dies, juse like what happened to rika in higurashi, that's why it's really hard to fake magic scenes when piece batler is present.
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Old 2009-10-06, 11:20   Link #428
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I'm playing the second part right now, and I'm wondering, why isn't everyone happy? Just get yourself killed and go to the golden land alright? Why is there a problem? Also sacrifices aren't allowed to the Golden Land? (As Beatrice treathens Shannon) then why is Shannon at the tea party? Isn't the tea party the golden land that didn't work out or something? D:
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Old 2009-10-06, 12:51   Link #429
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Originally Posted by MikaMikado View Post
I'm playing the second part right now, and I'm wondering, why isn't everyone happy? Just get yourself killed and go to the golden land alright? Why is there a problem? Also sacrifices aren't allowed to the Golden Land? (As Beatrice treathens Shannon) then why is Shannon at the tea party? Isn't the tea party the golden land that didn't work out or something? D:
1: People don't want to die.
2: Spending eternity with Beatrice doesn't sound especially paradisical to anyone but Maria.
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Old 2009-10-06, 12:54   Link #430
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Originally Posted by MikaMikado View Post
I'm playing the second part right now, and I'm wondering, why isn't everyone happy? Just get yourself killed and go to the golden land alright? Why is there a problem? Also sacrifices aren't allowed to the Golden Land? (As Beatrice treathens Shannon) then why is Shannon at the tea party? Isn't the tea party the golden land that didn't work out or something? D:
Yes sacrifices are not allowed into the golden land, Shannon and Kanon are there because Jessica's and George's treasures where the love they lost.
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Old 2009-10-06, 14:14   Link #431
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As HanyuuChan said, sacrifices aren't allowed. Only the people who survive to the end (10th twilight that is) can go to the Golden Land. Not sure if there's a maximum though.

EP 1 - Battler, Jessica, George and Maria went. Well the last three did, since Battler denied going.
EP 2 - Battler, Kinzo, Genji, Rosa and Maria went. Again, Battler refused to go.

As for EP 3...well I won't say until that arc ends
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Old 2009-10-06, 14:33   Link #432
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if someone can post 2 umineko anime pictures of the mansion and the guest house kana kana
because I can't visualize where they are situated the one over the other
thanks
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Old 2009-10-06, 14:48   Link #433
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@Marion: In ep. 2, Battler did initially agree to go. It was Rosa who refused. It wasn't until later that he changed his mind.
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Old 2009-10-06, 18:46   Link #434
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Originally Posted by mizou View Post
if someone can post 2 umineko anime pictures of the mansion and the guest house kana kana
because I can't visualize where they are situated the one over the other
thanks
The only thing I know for sure is that the rose garden is exactly between the guest house and the main house, and the rose garden is also the first thing you get to after walking the long winding path from the port.
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Old 2009-10-06, 18:51   Link #435
Marion
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The only thing I know for sure is that the rose garden is exactly between the guest house and the main house, and the rose garden is also the first thing you get to after walking the long winding path from the port.
That and the rose garden is right in front of the main mansion, while there's a pathway to the guest house right by the side. So the guest house isn't very close to the rose garden at all.
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Old 2009-10-07, 18:31   Link #436
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So what's the deal with the Extra Tips (e.g. Beatrice's White Day)? Are they products for sale or actual tips in EP5? And is there a translation of it anywhere?
Sorry if this has been asked before.
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Old 2009-10-07, 19:07   Link #437
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They are released in non-game media, like books or pamphlets. There are translations scattered around this forum, I'm not sure where the specific posts are, though.
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Old 2009-10-07, 19:33   Link #438
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They are released in non-game media, like books or pamphlets. There are translations scattered around this forum, I'm not sure where the specific posts are, though.
Jan-Poo already collected the links to all those posts together (Warning these links contain spoilers up to VN episode 4):
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Ok I will bookmark this page in case someone asks for these translations again.
For simplicity I group them all together:


Why are closed room murders beautiful
Stakes Valentine Day
Beato's White Day
Lambda's diary
Bern's Letter
Anti-Mystery vs. Anti-Fantasy
Tanabata
Gohda's notebook: translation1 - translation2
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Old 2009-10-07, 21:51   Link #439
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now my question: are the portraits drawn by Ryukishi? or is someone drawing them for him? (or something in-between like Ryu making a sketch and someone else painting the actual portrait on that)
because, they look much better than the actual game spirtes (they even have ears and figers ), but at the same time the drawing style looks the same... makes me confused.
my bet is he just sketches them on paper while the sprites are made directly on a computer, but i want to make sure.
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Old 2009-10-07, 21:52   Link #440
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(they even have ears and figers )
Hey, hey, hey, the Umineko sprites have ears and fingers!
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