AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired M-Z > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-10-06, 03:15   Link #3581
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
That seems to rule out pretty much everything except:

1) a previously-set trap, such as a bomb
2) a natural force, such as a landslide
3) a supernatural entity
There HAS to be something else. All three of those are stupid answers.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 06:35   Link #3582
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now, and I will kill you.
whoa, didn't notice the "i am here now" part before. it makes things a little creepy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
1) a previously-set trap, such as a bomb
2) a natural force, such as a landslide
3) a supernatural entity
SMALL BOMBS. what did you expect.

1 and 2 are kinda contradicting the red text unless you assume Beato IS a bomb or a landslide... i get where it comes from, and it's kinda logical but still... DO NOT WANT.

i was personally going for the landslide theory, but it's only because of my lack of better ideas.
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 06:59   Link #3583
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
I wonder if there's a trick in the definition of "kill". Since Battler also said "I will kill you", I wonder if this story will really end with Battler committing a real murder, even for legitimate defense it sounds wrong.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:30   Link #3584
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Oh em gee. I just realised something.

Battler could not remember his sin.
However, after 6th October he managed to remember it.


You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now, and I will kill you.

I just realised that "now" implies that time is in the picture. It could probably mean that "Beatrice" was not with Battler, however now she was.

Going along these lines, it seems as if Battler found out his sin and this new discovery allows "beatrice" to claim to be with Battler here. It seems to imply that Beatrice = Battler's sin.

Battler realises his sin. His sin leaves him so devastated that "it" kills him.

Now this leaves me to think of something, Battler realizes his sin at the end of chapter 1, 2 and 4. This sin triggered certain unknown reactions from Battler, causing the massacre of survivors on the island and eventually his own life.

I did remember Beatrice said his sin led to the death of many people on the island in red. But she didnt state when, was it possible that this sin that Battler realised, killed everyone after the second day?
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.
hodil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:33   Link #3585
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
that doesn't work for episode3 'though. It was stated in red that Battler ins't the culprit nor an accomplice. Still everyone dies except Eva
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:39   Link #3586
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Same with the final red truth.

You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now, and I will kill you.


I am not you. So Battler didnt kill himself.

Ryukishi might have personified Battler's sin as Beatrice. And this sin is called Beatrice. Like how cyclones have names.

A cyclone hit Myanmar.
Nargis hit Myanmar.

So i wouldnt be surprised if Beatrice simply states in red that "Beatrice killed everyone". Word-play wise ... it sorts of work hah.
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.
hodil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:42   Link #3587
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quite farfetched -- but you still need to explain nanjo's death, because none of the 3 that were left alive had anything to do with Nanjo's murder, their body physically aren't involved in such murder however a man standing in front of Nanjo reading a weapon killed Nanjo.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:51   Link #3588
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Im having some fading memories here but didnt Battler *possibly* smashed the Nanjo thingy with the possibility of a person being alive before EvaB stated their life-death status in red?
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.
hodil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 07:52   Link #3589
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
yeah but it couldn't possibly be Battler the one who did it
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 08:56   Link #3590
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Well i did say Battler didnt realise his sin in Episode 3. Since he didnt had time to before getting shot by Eva. Haha
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.
hodil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 11:02   Link #3591
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now, and I will kill you.

In other words, there is something on the island at that exact moment, which is separate from Battler and not a human, that is directly responsible for Battler's death. That seems to rule out pretty much everything except:

1) a previously-set trap, such as a bomb
2) a natural force, such as a landslide
3) a supernatural entity
Or, going back to the tried-and-true "Furniture are not people" idea...

Spoiler for Beato:
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 14:10   Link #3592
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Oh, wait a sec. Here's an idea.

Someone pointed out before that when Beato gave out that last bit of red text, she said "Watashi wa dare?" instead of "Warawa wa dare?" Now that I think about it, it sounds more and more like a standard children's riddle construction. Eva (Rosa?) said something similar about the epitaph, that it was just a childish riddle and they'd been overthinking it the whole time. So if we look at it that way... How about time?

We don't really even know that Battler died before leaving the island. The only red that suggests otherwise is "None escape, all die," but that's already contradicted by Eva in Episode 3, so it seems like we might be misinterpreting that somehow. All Beato said at the end was that "After this point in time, I will kill you."

From that perspective, it starts to look more like a last desperate misdirection than a weird murder.
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 14:14   Link #3593
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
There is still the "I am here now" thing to contend with.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 14:16   Link #3594
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
There is still the "I am here now" thing to contend with.
Don't be silly, time is everywhere
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 14:23   Link #3595
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
Wait you were being literal? As in "time" kills Battler?
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 14:28   Link #3596
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Wait you were being literal? As in "time" kills Battler?
Yes, as in "He got off the island and later died of old age." Time always gets you in the end if nothing else does, right?
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 15:02   Link #3597
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
Or as in he ran out of time....to solve the mystery. This is supposedly Beatrice talking to him.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 16:34   Link #3598
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
there was also a theory that beato is law. (he was missing for 7 years and became dead.)
doesn't explain why he goes missing, it's not like he has a reason to hide or got abducted by aliens.

i think when solving this particular red text, the question isn't only "what happens to Battler" (in EP4), it's "what happens to people who survive" (in all EPs). the situation is pretty much the same, and they always go missing - if you explan one you can also explain the other. i bet it's the same thing in every chapter. (hell, they even meet beatrice [die?] every time in the same place)


and if people get off the island they're listed as survivors in the credits. same if they go missing. if the credits say he's dead, he probably is.
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-06, 17:27   Link #3599
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I'm going with the theory that the definition of "kill" is not to end someone's life in this case.
Just like the epitaph, kill probably has a different meaning here.
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-08, 00:01   Link #3600
Sute443
Sasaki-ist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 28
I was replaying the last Battler-Beato confrontation in order to make sure of some of the phrasing (I thought there might have been a loophole in Beato not saying when she would kill Battler, but she specified "now" a few lines before what has already been quoted), and noticed something about the red concerning the First Twilight of the second game...

Spoiler for Second Game, First Twilight:
Sute443 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.