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Old 2009-10-06, 07:45   Link #141
Satashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
That's not entirely incorrect, Nanoha has a tendency of doing this. A's is an even better example of this with Hayate, for example. While Nanoha certainly was a main character, the story itself revolved around Hayate more than it did Nanoha.

In StrikerS this is stlightly less the case. It focused a lot on Subaru, but Nanoha had a plotline of her own to follow.
Yeah but Subaru is the focus of the series. Take any anime opening. Generally the first person you see is the main character. In Nanoha, and A's, your see Nanoha and Fate, then the people supporting them. In StrikerS you see Subaru in all her awesome glory right up front in your face. Then the plot priomarily focuses on Jail, the numbers, what they do, and Subaru is a major part in that.

But this isn't a StrikerS board :3

Vivid relies a lot on just assuming the people know WTF's going on. I agree that it's not aimed for Westies that can't follow the story because they couldn't get "coloring with Vivio!" book to follow the story.

I do think, however, that they are tossing characters aside too much. Just forgetting about them by saying "oh yeah Zafira? he's um... helping Hayate! who's um... Away! yeah, away, that's it!"

*sighs* I guess I'll have to wait for translated chapter 5 and hearing the SS to really enjoy Vivid and understand why Nove is there so much.

Oh, I don't dislike the numbers as the point of "hating on them" I was jsut annoyed that they all got introduced , blown up, reformed, all without any real understanding of why.

I do like Nove, looking back at her. Enough to make her someone Vivio looks up to.

I'll get the SSX tonight and see how it goes from there :3

( hugs Zafira)

edit: Page claim for leaving late for work to post this!
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Old 2009-10-06, 09:40   Link #142
Keroko
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Expanding upon what I said, to say Nove is unfit to be an instructor because she was rash in StrikerS is like saying Fate is unfit to be a mother because she could barely look people in the eyes in A's. Characters grow, and four years have passed. Nove has become a lot more collected (maybe because of Vivio and her friends. Being an example who kids will follow can do wonders for the drive to change) and made a suitable instructor for Vivio.

Also, storywise Vivid focuses on Vivio and the numbers, while Force seems to feature the old cast. Wether Zafira will appear, and in how large a role, remains to be seen, however I would expect him in Force sooner than I would in Vivid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
Nove ;-; why are you so hated? You're pretty icy chill too...
I don't. Nove is <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Yeah but Subaru is the focus of the series. Take any anime opening. Generally the first person you see is the main character. In Nanoha, and A's, your see Nanoha and Fate, then the people supporting them. In StrikerS you see Subaru in all her awesome glory right up front in your face. Then the plot priomarily focuses on Jail, the numbers, what they do, and Subaru is a major part in that.
And also Nanoha, Vivio and their relationship. Final battles are also key events, and Nanoha's battle was just a teeeny more important than Subaru's (whereas in A's, where the focus was on Hayate, it was Hayate who was key to defeating the Book of Darkness). Granted, the first episodes were focused almost exclusively on Subaru and Teana, but as soon as Vivio entered the fray you could almost see the camera jerk with the speed they re-directed the focus.

Oh, and while the second opening starts with Subaru, the first StrikerS opening does indeed start with Nanoha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Vivid relies a lot on just assuming the people know WTF's going on. I agree that it's not aimed for Westies that can't follow the story because they couldn't get "coloring with Vivio!" book to follow the story.

I do think, however, that they are tossing characters aside too much. Just forgetting about them by saying "oh yeah Zafira? he's um... helping Hayate! who's um... Away! yeah, away, that's it!"
If they had ignored the Numbers, they would have been tossing characters aside as well. This really is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of situation.
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Old 2009-10-06, 14:42   Link #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
Nove ;-; why are you so hated? You're pretty icy chill too...

Like Fun~yan said, as much as I hate it, Zaffy can't be the one to teach Vivio because he's not there.

Also I don't get the numbers hate, people complain about them not having any characterization but that's exactly what they're getting now and people are complaining they're getting too much. D: Don't hate on them. They're not stealing screentime, they're part of the story (actually it's more like Nove's part of the story, everyone else has popped up significantly less), and if you haven't noticed Nove seems to be shacking up with Einheart right now so that might be kinda important. What I don't get is why they're apparently not allowed to be plot significant characters.
They're hated because they did this on last season:

Spoiler for StrikerS Spoiler:


And, oh, who's that one?

Oh, yeah, it's Nove.

Uhmmm... ta-da?
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Old 2009-10-06, 16:42   Link #144
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And yet Fate pounded Nanoha, the Wolkies pounded Nanoha and Fate and nobody's hating on them.

Numbers are mostly hated because there were a lot of them, and they're hard to remember. We also didn't get to see much of their redemption, so for most of the western fans they're still firmly set in the minds as 'the bad guys' and thus placed in the category of Precia and the like. Bad guys often get an auto-hate.
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Old 2009-10-06, 16:47   Link #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And yet Fate pounded Nanoha, the Wolkies pounded Nanoha and Fate and nobody's hating on them.

Numbers are mostly hated because there were a lot of them, and they're hard to remember. We also didn't get to see much of their redemption, so for most of the western fans they're still firmly set in the minds as 'the bad guys' and thus placed in the category of Precia and the like. Bad guys often get an auto-hate.
Wendi and Nove were the two that I liked the most!

Especially Wendi...

"Can I blow them up?"

That's awesome! XD
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Old 2009-10-06, 18:52   Link #146
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Villain auto-hate, low levels of screen time and poor characterization/writing cannot prevent Cinque from being Bad Ass.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:03   Link #147
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Actually when I was rewatching for the Cinque one shot I did, a tear came to my eye when I realized how much of a sacrifice Cinque was willing to make for Wendi and Nove, She tells them to go, not out of confidence, but because she doesn't want beserker Subaru to hurt them. Some of the numbers don't actually have that poor of characterization when you look closer (But a lot of us are so busy hating them we don't see it). What really tied the knot for Quattro's douchieness for me, wasn't her treatment of the heros but the treatment of her sisters. She treats the only younger number to not treat her like a loony, Deici, like a pile of poopoo. She's the reason Sette is an emotionless blob (though Tre the jerk had something to do with that too). A lot of it is there and then subsequently expanded on very nicely in the soundstages.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:25   Link #148
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Sure it was expanded in the Sound Stages... but let me ask you, if no one bothered to translate the stupid extras, would anyone know what's the heck is going on in the damn Vivid manga?

I can only imagine what Nanoha fans in Europe (say, Germany?) are feeling if they don't have access to any sort of translation and can't figure out why the Numbers have turned good.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:32   Link #149
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but some were in rehab at the end of strikers in the anime x_x
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:34   Link #150
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Not enough to justify that they turned good in the haters' eyes though.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:36   Link #151
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We are worried about haters? I don't understand the need to.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:37   Link #152
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I'm not worried about the haters.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:38   Link #153
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I only like lovers not haters... in bed *flees*

@Nagumo: And that is why I bow before you.
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Old 2009-10-06, 19:43   Link #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Rick View Post
They're hated because they did this on last season:

Spoiler for StrikerS Spoiler:


And, oh, who's that one?

Oh, yeah, it's Nove.

Uhmmm... ta-da?
As I watched some of the other clips, I notice something hilarious: Whenever both Raging Heart and Bardiche do their attack upgrades in A's, they did something in common that reminded me of a comedian:

Raging Heart: (before attacking) "Divine Buster....(pause) ...Extension".
Bardiche: "Plasma Lancer...(pause)... Assault form." (After Attack)
Jalapeno: "Jalapeno...(pause)...on a stick".

If you know Jeff Dunham then you'll get the joke if not...*shrugs* Sorry...
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Old 2009-10-06, 21:11   Link #155
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And yet Fate pounded Nanoha, the Wolkies pounded Nanoha and Fate and nobody's hating on them.

Numbers are mostly hated because there were a lot of them, and they're hard to remember. We also didn't get to see much of their redemption, so for most of the western fans they're still firmly set in the minds as 'the bad guys' and thus placed in the category of Precia and the like. Bad guys often get an auto-hate.
Fate and the Wolkis got a deep story and reasons for their motives and they showed redemption for theiR actions, something that we don't see with the numbers but a very small dust of regret coming from #10 at one of the last chapters.

Esentialy, everyone else told alredy why the numbers are "hated" (I add the " because in my case I don't hate them, I found them as "senseless characters in Vivid") so I have no need to point out any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alavon View Post
As I watched some of the other clips, I notice something hilarious: Whenever both Raging Heart and Bardiche do their attack upgrades in A's, they did something in common that reminded me of a comedian:

Raging Heart: (before attacking) "Divine Buster....(pause) ...Extension".
Bardiche: "Plasma Lancer...(pause)... Assault form." (After Attack)
Jalapeno: "Jalapeno...(pause)...on a stick".

If you know Jeff Dunham then you'll get the joke if not...*shrugs* Sorry...
Off topic but yeah, I'm fan of Jeff Dunham specially when he has Pepe the Jalapeņo and Ahmed the death terrorist. XP
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Old 2009-10-06, 21:38   Link #156
Alavon
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Quote:
Off topic but yeah, I'm fan of Jeff Dunham specially when he has Pepe the Jalapeņo and Ahmed the death terrorist. XP
Yeah, it was sorta off topic... But I couldn't help myself! :P

Anyway, back on topic!

Spoiler for ViVid:
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Old 2009-10-06, 21:51   Link #157
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well if they can otp subaru and ixpellia then eh

i dunno what i'm reading anymore
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Old 2009-10-06, 21:52   Link #158
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i dunno what i'm reading anymore
... We're supposed to read? Not just look at the pretty pictures? D:

*shot*
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Old 2009-10-06, 22:03   Link #159
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Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Vivid Loli Fanservice

Wait ... you mean that isn't the name of the manga? (what is this reading thing you speak of?)
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Old 2009-10-07, 00:56   Link #160
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As for me, I didn't hate Wendi due to her wanting to blow stuff up...

And Nove's insecurities when she and Teana squared off at the very end actually endeared her to me.

I like characters who can actually show that they have real worries and insecurities.
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