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Old 2009-10-07, 10:30   Link #61
kakakka
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...I'm still a bit sad that Buggy's not in those pics.
What do you mean, Isn't he leading the prisoners in the pic?
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Old 2009-10-07, 10:38   Link #62
marvelB
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^Oh, yeah! I see him now! It's just that the pics were so blurry that I didn't notice him at first. Okay, I'm satisfied, now.



By the way, it looks like Luffy's listening in on Iva and Flamingo's little chat, and has a flashback of when Kuma told him at Sabaody that they'd never meet again. So it looks like even Luffy is aware of the bible bear's grim fate, now.....
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Old 2009-10-07, 10:56   Link #63
aohige
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Anyways, I don't think the name of Iva's new wink attack is "Galaxy" Wink. I'm clearly seeing "GANMEN" written in English (I think that means the face of something, right?).
No, you're looking at the wrong panel.
Ganmen whatever (rest is blurry) is the panel where he does bunshin and makes mirage of multiple of himself.

Galaxy Wink is the NEXT panel.

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Old 2009-10-07, 11:11   Link #64
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^Okay, I got it now. Curse these eyes of mine! >_< Well, either way, those were some crazy techniques Iva used there. I'm still waiting to see how he'll utilize his hormone powers in this fight (Oda will probably come up with something a lot more creative than my steroid idea from before).....
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Old 2009-10-07, 11:36   Link #65
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I always wondered, did Iva make his head larger, or was he simply "grown" that way? He can control the size of his head after all, and his female form looks fairly ordinary (putting aside my intial speculation that Iva's hormone attacks produce beautiful people). Added to that, it would make some amount of sense that the larger his eyes are the greater his destructive wink ability is.

Whatever the cas, it is great to see Iva serious. I find it hard to believe he could defeat Kuma, but then again, it could be a whole nakama thing where Iva has to take down (or at least wake up) Kuma (this would be a little cliche, but still some fun).
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Old 2009-10-07, 11:42   Link #66
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I always found it a shame that we didn't saw what Iva really was made of against Magellan. Granted Magellan wasn't your usual kind of enemy that made it easy to go full out against but he seems to be wipping out a can of whoop ass now, though Kuma doesn't seem faced bye it. He's bombing everything like a regular pacifista. Iva really has no other option then to ko him and take him with him.

I did saw Buggy and mr 3 behind him. Kind of don't understand why mr 3 keeps following him cause he knows he's just show but it surely amuses me. Can't wait to see the clown go down again and fail but it still working out for Luffy.

And Boa looking down so much on Smoker. Exactly how I always imagined her fights would be. Still such sexy legs, Oda ain't doing wrong with the fanservice imo.
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:00   Link #67
marvelB
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I always wondered, did Iva make his head larger, or was he simply "grown" that way? He can control the size of his head after all, and his female form looks fairly ordinary (putting aside my intial speculation that Iva's hormone attacks produce beautiful people). Added to that, it would make some amount of sense that the larger his eyes are the greater his destructive wink ability is.

Whatever the cas, it is great to see Iva serious. I find it hard to believe he could defeat Kuma, but then again, it could be a whole nakama thing where Iva has to take down (or at least wake up) Kuma (this would be a little cliche, but still some fun).



Oh hey, did you see what I said in the last page about the ministory? So how 'bout it? Think that shadow belongs to a master swordsman that will teach Zoro how to slash through diamond?




Speaking of diamond, I wonder how mobile Jozu is if he turns his entire body into diamond? So far, we've only seen him partially transform his body while fighting, but will he retain his speed even if his body is completely transformed? I guess I'm reminded of CP9 and how Jyabura was the only one who could move around when activating Tekkai......
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:03   Link #68
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^I didn't notice your comment, but I sure noticed the shadow (and thought the same thing...which I think both of use have speculated upon in the past). Diamond-cutting is more realistic for Zoro's current level than Ghost/element-cutting, afterall.
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:52   Link #69
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^I didn't notice your comment, but I sure noticed the shadow (and thought the same thing...which I think both of use have speculated upon in the past). Diamond-cutting is more realistic for Zoro's current level than Ghost/element-cutting, afterall.
But less relevant, I doubt that diamond cutting will be that useful since Jozu is unlikely enemy for Strawhats.

Element cutting is something Zoro really needs to learn fast, he will have way too much troubles with DF users with his current standing.

Well Zoro could learn to cut stuff that is harder than steel, he is having some troblems with cutting Pacifistas at this moment.
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:55   Link #70
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^From a progression standpoint, Zoro already identified diamond as following steel/iron (and he doesn't even know yet that elements can be cut), so it makes more sense for Zoro to learn how to cut through diamond (effectively meaning he can cut through 99% of anything on the planet (say goodbye to the Pacifistas)) than the elements. It's simple level progression - you can't just skip to level 3 from level 1, you have to first make your way through level 2 (and no, the levels that can be skipped in Super Mario Bros. (etc) are not the levels I am talking about ).
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:05   Link #71
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What about seastone? Is it stronger or weaker than diamond?
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:22   Link #72
marvelB
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^I believe all we know is that seastone is equally as strong as diamond. We don't know what alloy is used for the Pacifistas, but seeing as Zoro said that it was stronger than steel, it's probably best to assume that it's near/equally as impenetrable as seastone/diamond, as well.



But yeah, I have to agree that cutting diamond would naturally be the next step for Zoro. While I don't doubt that he'll learn to slash through those pesky elements at some point, it would undoubtedly be a good while before he's capable of such a feat. I guess you could say he needs to learn how to hear the "breath" of all physical objects before he's ready to take on the immaterial......
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:25   Link #73
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with the whole Zoro thing, my input is that elements may not be a direct level up from diamond, it may be a completely different branching path with it's own restrictions that don't relate to what is needed to cut diamonds.

RPG wise I personally see it like having a different skill trees, Zoro so far has leveled all his skill points in the power cutting tree while generally not touching the astral cutting tree. Right now he's getting points in astral tree which aid his spirit/element cutting but don't effect his growth in diamond cutting.

either way that's all personal speculation and probably overly simplified.
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:29   Link #74
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^Following similar logic, I have always assumed that Element cutting can only be attained upon the completion of the pre-requisite skills of Iron cutting and Diamond cutting. In other words, certain skill requirements must be met before new skills are attainable. In other words, you cannot take a level in element cutting until you have maxed both iron and diamond cutting (so to say).
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:36   Link #75
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By "element" cutting I'm assuming you mean being able to attack Logia users directly instead of through built in weaknesses but that has been shown to fall in the category of Haki control. Though probably related (cutting steal probably has some Haki control properties) I don't think there's evidence to show that cutting diamond is a prerequisite to cutting a Logia user.
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:48   Link #76
james0246
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^Any specific evidence (i.e. a chart)? No, not really. But Zoro clearly said Diamond comes after Iron simply because diamond is harder. So following that very simply logic, what is harder to cut after diamond? An intangiable (like an element or one of Perona's ghosts, etc).

Whether it is Haki or not, I am still unsure, but it still seems (to me) like a progression that cannot be skipped.
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:13   Link #77
Jaieni
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Diamond and Iron/Steel are all tangibles and there's a fixed progression on which is the harder tangible to cut.

Look at it this way, both graduate quantum mechanics (QM) and graduate classical mechanics (CM) both require very similar prerequisites to learn (calculus, linear algebra, undergrad physics, etc) however neither are prerequisites of each other. As long as I know linear algebra I should be able to learn QM without having to take CM.

Both cutting a logia user and cutting diamond probably requires haki control but unless it's proven by Oda I doubt either are prerequisites of each other.
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:46   Link #78
james0246
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^But, as you say, linear algebra must be understood before either classical or quantum mechanics can be learned/grasped. So, why couldn't cutting through the tangible be the linear algebra of your analogy, and elements and something else (spirit?) be the further studies?

Again, there is nothing really canon about the idea of a prerequisites (that was simply my analogy for why cutting an intangible probably comes after mastering how to cut a tangible), but, whatever the case, it seems more likely that Zoro will learn how to cut through a diamond/Pacifista before he learns how to cut through a logia.
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:49   Link #79
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as always, im amazed by the in-depth-discussions you guys have. i mean, i read the same manga as u do, but sometimes i ask myself: huh? when did that happen? who said that and when? wtf ?
example: how do u guys know that zorro is about to get a level-up? do you assume that because of all the other crewmembers meeting ppl with similar skills?
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:53   Link #80
Jaieni
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^But, as you say, linear algebra must be understood before either classical or quantum mechanics can be learned/grasped. So, why couldn't cutting through the tangible be the linear algebra of your analogy, and elements and something else (spirit?) be the further studies?

Again, there is nothing really canon about the idea of a prerequisites (that was simply my analogy for why cutting an intangible probably comes after mastering how to cut a tangible), but, whatever the case, it seems more likely that Zoro will learn how to cut through a diamond/Pacifista before he learns how to cut through a logia.

This will probably just lead to a circular argument so I'll just say that I'll look forward to what's in store for us for Zoro and see how he continues to grow.

As a tangent I will say that the person I'd like most to see grow is Usopp. There seems to be many strong melee fighters in OP but not so much on the ranged department. I'd love for him to actually get stronger in terms of his gun-slinging.



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as always, im amazed by the in-depth-discussions you guys have. i mean, i read the same manga as u do, but sometimes i ask myself: huh? when did that happen? who said that and when? wtf ?
example: how do u guys know that zorro is about to get a level-up? do you assume that because of all the other crewmembers meeting ppl with similar skills?
Well, we saw on the foot steps of the "New World" (and probably in the upcoming fight) that the straw hats really need a power-up before they can continue on or they'll end up just getting gibbed. The fact that they're all separated and meeting new people with similar skill sets or with something there that would help with their progression just strengthens the argument that the straw hats are getting a power up.
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