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Old 2009-10-12, 00:25   Link #1161
Jan-Poo
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Anyway it looks almost certain that Kinzo was still alive at that time, because he was last seen at the family conference of 1984. The same year the epitaph was exposed.

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One thing that struck me about the LORAN/LORNA/RONAL thing is just how close it is Ronald/Dlanor, all it lacks is the D.
Actually Dlanor/Ronald fits perfectly inside QUADRILLION. The problem is the name is supposed to only have 5 letters not 6 ^^;

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Old 2009-10-12, 00:31   Link #1162
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....

Didn't Eva say something about it not being six letters/characters long...later on?

But then this is getting messy. What part are we in now?
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:36   Link #1163
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That is supposed to be the key. The key is 6 characters. So you you can speculate that Dlanor or Ronald are the key, but you need some theory to back this.

And even then if you use Quadrillion at your starting sentence you are left with: QU___I_LI__
so at this point it would be impossible to tell who are the "two who are close" (regardless of the "L" you remove)
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:38   Link #1164
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In English "Q" and "U" are almost always together as a rule.
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:38   Link #1165
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So are they the "two who are close" by definition or not the two who are close?
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:42   Link #1166
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They are (almost always) close...so much so that it is rare to find any English word that does not have a "u" after "q"....on most Alphabet charts it is listed as "Qu/qu". Your question is...are they considered to be close...or are they considered to be one letter?

The problem is still....what is a "honorable name"? Are we talking an honorable persons, family, royality....or does this fit the whole Dante things and a honorable name is a word for God? And is is a name in English, or romaji of a Japanese name?
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Old 2009-10-12, 01:20   Link #1167
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It could be a supernatural name since, knowing Kinzo, he has a pretty huge obsession for Magic, supernatural, and things of that sort. So I'd say its safe to "assume" that Kinzo would make the honorable name something from mythology or legends.

Like Qilin a Chinese chimerical creature usually associated with the appearance of a sage, and bring about serenity and prosperity, with fire over its body. In old China Zhū Quč (The Vermillion Bird) the southern symbol of fire, was used as a crest for Chinese princesses, and in association to the gold that Beatrice, Kinzo's princess of sorts, gave him.

But Kinzo and Chinese mythology... not likely... o.o
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Old 2009-10-12, 01:30   Link #1168
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I think the 5 letters turn into 6 has to do something with a の. Remember the whole deal about Golden Land, and Land of Gold? I think the の there may play a key factor.

All the same, I've got to admit I've been passing on trying to work out the epitaph, since I'm sure it relies a lot on Japanese wordplays, references, and perhaps common knowledge, which I'm not knowledgeable of. So, I don't know if that's actually a key, or just a vague interpretation of mine.

Even so, I'm wondering what's the exact purpose of the epitaph. As of now, it's been solved twice. The first time, only 2 people knew about it. During the second time, everyone on the island was aware of it. However, in both situations the murders were still carried out. Sure, during the second time, the murders weren't carried as well as the first time the epitaph was solved, but the fact is they still happened. So, what's to gain from it, other than gold? Beatrice doesn't gain anything from it being solved, apparently. What's there for the people in Rokkenjima to win from it, I wonder? Lambda said it was possible to prevent the murders, but just solving the epitaph didn't do it. I wonder if there's something else to it.
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Old 2009-10-12, 02:14   Link #1169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
It's unsure. It was only put up in 1984, along with the Beatrice portrait.
I'm mainly wondering because it seemed like Eva was told the epitaph by high school-Eva in episode 3. Based off the anime, Eva looked like she was in her 20's or 30's, which would make the epitaph around 20 years old, if not even older.
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Old 2009-10-12, 02:19   Link #1170
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Was it that way in the VN? I remember them showing it that way in the anime, but I cannot remember how exactly it happened in the VN. I don't remember them discussing the epitaph. All the same, my memory has never been good.
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:03   Link #1171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I think the 5 letters turn into 6 has to do something with a の. Remember the whole deal about Golden Land, and Land of Gold? I think the の there may play a key factor.

All the same, I've got to admit I've been passing on trying to work out the epitaph, since I'm sure it relies a lot on Japanese wordplays, references, and perhaps common knowledge, which I'm not knowledgeable of. So, I don't know if that's actually a key, or just a vague interpretation of mine.

Even so, I'm wondering what's the exact purpose of the epitaph. As of now, it's been solved twice. The first time, only 2 people knew about it. During the second time, everyone on the island was aware of it. However, in both situations the murders were still carried out. Sure, during the second time, the murders weren't carried as well as the first time the epitaph was solved, but the fact is they still happened. So, what's to gain from it, other than gold? Beatrice doesn't gain anything from it being solved, apparently. What's there for the people in Rokkenjima to win from it, I wonder? Lambda said it was possible to prevent the murders, but just solving the epitaph didn't do it. I wonder if there's something else to it.
I agree that it's very important that we try to figure the epitaph out and Jan-Poo probably has made the best attempt on this board. However, solving the epitaph won't stop the murders like you said. My theory is that the mastermind is also an entity that can appear in the meta world but for the first five episodes has only been an observer regarding the meta world discussions.

Here's what I think happened and what I think will happen:

Spoiler for Games theory:


-Lambdadelta and Beatrice have always been on the anti-mystery side.
-Bernkastel is on the anti-fantasy side but is the worst teammate of all time. Episode 1: "I'll be your ally Battler", Episode 2: "This dude sucks"(Does nothing to help), Episode 3: "I'll take care of this shit by myself"(Brings in Ange), Episode 4: "ha, you thought I cared about anything else besides winning? Trolled.", Episode 5: "I'll make a fake trial, humiliate some innocent person, and claim victory when I've actually proven nothing".
-I think Battler is anti-mystery now and will be for the rest of the way. He realizes that not everything can be explained as a mystery and doesn't deny the fantasy.

I think at the end of episode 6 (if it turns out how I think it will and Battler ends up losing to Bernkastel and Erika) the mastermind behind the murders will appear as a dark silhouette in the meta world and challenge Bernkastel. Bernkastel loses in episode 7 but Lamdadelta decides to revive Beatrice to help Battler take down the mastermind for beating Bern. Battler learns who Beatrice really is and who the mastermind really is in episode 7. In the final episode with Beatrice's help Battler is able to remember his sin and confront the mastermind prior to any murder. Tragedy avoided.
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:22   Link #1172
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-I think Battler is anti-mystery now and will be for the rest of the way. He realizes that not everything can be explained as a mystery and doesn't deny the fantasy.
Isn't Battler "Mystery", not "Anti-Mystery"? He wants to find the truth, which is what solving a mystery is all about.

I like the idea of the Mastermind having a Meta-version, though. It would explain some things...
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:28   Link #1173
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Isn't Battler "Mystery", not "Anti-Mystery"? He wants to find the truth, which is what solving a mystery is all about.
He learns the truth in episode 5. So he already knows it.

I hope we get some insight as to what lead him to it in future episodes.
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:40   Link #1174
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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
He learns the truth in episode 5. So he already knows it.

I hope we get some insight as to what lead him to it in future episodes.
On another note, this is why I'm kind of positive that we're getting a protagonist switch to Erika for at least the next episode. Even if she is unlikeable now, I'm sure Ryukishi can make us empathize with her somehow.

And you guys can't tell me it wouldn't be worth it just to see Battler start acting exactly like Beatrice towards her.
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:42   Link #1175
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On another note, this is why I'm kind of positive that we're getting a protagonist switch to Erika for at least the next episode. Even if she is unlikeable now, I'm sure Ryukishi can make us empathize with her somehow.

And you guys can't tell me it wouldn't be worth it just to see Battler start acting exactly like Beatrice towards her.
I agree with that. There's something I like about seeing Erika's tortured face.

But we also need Beato in some form or another. She's way too popular of a character.
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Old 2009-10-12, 03:56   Link #1176
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2-3 layers of metaworlds? This is getting too metaphysical to find a more plausible answer to the source of the murders. Having multiple dimensional layers and layering screams too many possibilities that it's going to open an immense multitude of possibilities that it's fairly possible, should there be again more dimensional layers than what we already have, that none of all the theories ever presented could sufficiently account for the true nature of the murders again because the sheer existence of other metaworlds not yet presented introduces even more variables.

As an extension of what I replied to in the other thread, the existence of even more metaworlds can only account for the phenomena existing (in this case murders, murderers and masterminds) if you are willing to assess the variables that such worlds will bring into the game when they start to interact. This is quantum physics in a degree I can't properly comprehend.

If any mastermind/s exist, such an existence must exist within either the game, Beato's metaworld, or both. He does not exist in his own, separate metaworld outside the current presented worlds.

Personally, another metaworld will feel like a copout. A different, more omniscient and omnipresent metaworld gives too much power to the mastermind/pepretrator and gives too much of a convenient explanation to his abilities.
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Old 2009-10-12, 04:06   Link #1177
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
2-3 layers of metaworlds? This is getting too metaphysical to find a more plausible answer to the source of the murders. Having multiple dimensional layers and layering screams too many possibilities that it's going to open an immense multitude of possibilities that it's fairly possible, should there be again more dimensional layers than what we already have, that none of all the theories ever presented could sufficiently account for the true nature of the murders again because the sheer existence of other metaworlds not yet presented introduces even more variables.

As an extension of what I replied to in the other thread, the existence of even more metaworlds can only account for the phenomena existing (in this case murders, murderers and masterminds) if you are willing to assess the variables that such worlds will bring into the game when they start to interact. This is quantum physics in a degree I can't properly comprehend.

If any mastermind/s exist, such an existence must exist within either the game, Beato's metaworld, or both. He does not exist in his own, separate metaworld outside the current presented worlds.

Personally, another metaworld will feel like a copout. A different, more omniscient and omnipresent metaworld gives too much power to the mastermind/pepretrator and gives too much of a convenient explanation to his abilities.
I agree, that's too complicated. What I meant was that the mastermind is simply hiding in the meta world like Lambdadelta was hiding from Bernkastel at the beginning.
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Old 2009-10-12, 04:45   Link #1178
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I agree, that's too complicated. What I meant was that the mastermind is simply hiding in the meta world like Lambdadelta was hiding from Bernkastel at the beginning.
Well we'd have to consider how this mastermind manages to evade detection. Our assumption is that Beato created and maintained the metaworld until it was... hijacked so to speak by Lambda and Bern. These are 3 powerful witches we're talking about here. A mere mortal mastermind that can penetrate the metaworld isn't going to go undetected. I would say that this mastermind who would be in the metaworld is one of two things:

1. Probably possessing magical powers as well, greater than Beatrice herself and at least on par with Bern and Lambda.

2. The original creator of this metaworld.

Again as I have said, I don't like the idea of a meta-mastermind. Such an entity with magical powers is far too overpowered and, again, far too convenient to exercise his will. Likewise, it defeats Battler's assertion that the murders were caused by humans. A human cause extends to a human mastermind.
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Old 2009-10-12, 04:52   Link #1179
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Again as I have said, I don't like the idea of a meta-mastermind. Such an entity with magical powers is far too overpowered and, again, far too convenient to exercise his will. Likewise, it defeats Battler's assertion that the murders were caused by humans. A human cause extends to a human mastermind.
Humans can't have magical powers? Battler certainly does, for example.

Besides, what I think he means is that the Meta-mastermind, is, literally, a meta-version of the mastermind.
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Old 2009-10-12, 04:52   Link #1180
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well we'd have to consider how this mastermind manages to evade detection. Our assumption is that Beato created and maintained the metaworld until it was... hijacked so to speak by Lambda and Bern. These are 3 powerful witches we're talking about here. A mere mortal mastermind that can penetrate the metaworld isn't going to go undetected. I would say that this mastermind who would be in the metaworld is one of two things:

1. Probably possessing magical powers as well, greater than Beatrice herself and at least on par with Bern and Lambda.

2. The original creator of this metaworld.

Again as I have said, I don't like the idea of a meta-mastermind. Such an entity with magical powers is far too overpowered and, again, far too convenient to exercise his will. Likewise, it defeats Battler's assertion that the murders were caused by humans. A human cause extends to a human mastermind.
Well, we know Lambda somehow avoided detection because right when Bernkastel said "You called her didn't you?" Lambda appeared. So she was observing the conversation undetected by Bernkastel.

The mastermind probably has a human piece on the board and a meta world representation like Erika currently does. That's just my theory, I thought I'd throw it out there since I haven't seen anyone else mention the possibility.
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