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Old 2009-10-12, 16:52   Link #1201
Jan-Poo
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That's right, the so called meta-world is actually Beatrice's world. The kakera where Lambda and bernkastel meet is probably a conpletely different place.

It looks like Beatrice has complete control over this world. In ep5 it was also stated that nobody could entere the secret garden if Beatrice didn't wish for it. Battler thought it was strange because in ep4 Ange was there, so that means Beatrice allowed her. Beatrice's actions do not seem to make sense at first glance.

However in that game against Battler not only Beatrice managed to remove Ange she also prevented Bernkastel and Lambda from interfering. I don't know if she's really that powerless against those voyager witches, I think she could deal with them if she really wished it.

The problem is after Ep4 she completely lost the will to fight, and it looks like Lambda and Bernkastel were waiting for that to happen.

They seem to be very attracted to the game Beatrice created, meaning that they probably cannot create such a thing themselves, however they want the game to be their own thing, and therefore they see Beatrice and Battler as hindrances.

Probably their plan was to deal with them since the beginning. But it isn't like Beatrice really died. I think she's simply like Battler. If she really died her world would cease to exist.
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Old 2009-10-12, 17:01   Link #1202
Marion
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Lambda made a game that trapped Bern before, so I think they are capable of doing it. They just saw the game Beato and Battler were starting as interesting and, quite literally, hijacked it :P

I think Beato might had let Ange into the garden area in EP 4 subconsciously. Even she looked surprised Ange was there and there was no reason for her to act or anything (especially when she began to tear up when Ange brought Sakutaro back and MARIA was leaving)
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Old 2009-10-12, 17:15   Link #1203
Workworkwork
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Lambda made a game that trapped Bern before, so I think they are capable of doing it. They just saw the game Beato and Battler were starting as interesting and, quite literally, hijacked it :P

I think Beato might had let Ange into the garden area in EP 4 subconsciously. Even she looked surprised Ange was there and there was no reason for her to act or anything (especially when she began to tear up when Ange brought Sakutaro back and MARIA was leaving)
Or MARIA "left the door open" for ANGE to come in, because even though Beato believed Sakutarou was dead, MARIA still held out the faint hope that he would come back. Of course, he was alive all along, it just took ANGE to help MARIA recognize that.

Bern was probably the one who thought up the hijacking in the first place. Lambda never struck me as just as evil as her, even before EP4.
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Old 2009-10-12, 17:20   Link #1204
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Sorry, I don't buy the Beatrice has complete control over the meta world theory. Complete control over the gameboards? Mabye.

To many things go wrong for her to have absolute control over the meta world.
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Old 2009-10-12, 20:42   Link #1205
Used Can
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I don't know if she's really that powerless against those voyager witches, I think she could deal with them if she really wished it.
Well, both of them - Lambda and Bern - have stated that Beatrice has the potential to surpass them both. Lambda pointed that out in her diary TIPS, and Bern did it in her letter TIPS. Bern even said Beatrice may be stepping into the realm of the friend she was writing to (Hanyū perhaps?).
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Old 2009-10-12, 20:49   Link #1206
Workworkwork
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Well, both of them - Lambda and Bern - have stated that Beatrice has the potential to surpass them both. Lambda pointed that out in her diary TIPS, and Bern did it in her letter TIPS. Bern even said Beatrice may be stepping into the realm of the friend she was writing to (Hanyū perhaps?).
Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but is there a place where all the extra TIPs are organized? I don't like fishing through 100-page+ threads.
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Old 2009-10-12, 21:07   Link #1207
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but is there a place where all the extra TIPs are organized? I don't like fishing through 100-page+ threads.
Thanks to Jan-Poo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Ok I will bookmark this page in case someone asks for these translations again.
For simplicity I group them all together:


Why are closed room murders beautiful
Stakes Valentine Day
Beato's White Day
Lambda's diary
Bern's Letter
Anti-Mystery vs. Anti-Fantasy
Tanabata
Gohda's notebook: translation1 - translation2
Bookmark the post for a while since with some considerations to the anime viewers only, Klashi can't make the Extra TIPs thread (I think?)
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Old 2009-10-12, 21:40   Link #1208
MeoTwister5
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Personally I think Beato has no absolute control on either the metaworld or the game board. If she did, Bern and Lambda couldn't have hujacked them.
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Old 2009-10-12, 22:34   Link #1209
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Personally I think Beato has no absolute control on either the metaworld or the game board. If she did, Bern and Lambda couldn't have hujacked them.
well. Bern doesn't have control, but Lambda does. Didn't she say she "lent" the gameboard to Beato?
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Old 2009-10-12, 23:23   Link #1210
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Personally I think Beato has no absolute control on either the metaworld or the game board. If she did, Bern and Lambda couldn't have hujacked them.
They could have done it if Beatrice, subconsciously, thought them doing that was necessary. Virgilia said Bern and Lambda screwing up the game was necessary for both Beatrice and Battler.
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Old 2009-10-13, 05:16   Link #1211
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I have got a problem with umineko ep 5.
When I start the game the menu screen shows up properly. I click Start->Episode 5, then there is this text that says "This story is fictional ..." in Japanese, after that there is a communicate that says something like "099.txt line:145084
dwaveload%Se_Play_Channel,$Se_Play " and the game crushes.

I' m currently using Windows XP and I have changed my regional options on Japanese. I didn't installed any modyfications on ep 5. I have also got umineko ep 4 installed on my computer and it works fine.

I'm in despair .... ;-). Please help.
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Old 2009-10-13, 06:56   Link #1212
Jan-Poo
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well. Bern doesn't have control, but Lambda does. Didn't she say she "lent" the gameboard to Beato?
The way I remember it, she said she lent her powers. However she is the witch of certainty, and considering Higurashi there could be a metaphorical meaning with that, if you know what I mean.

Yeah she said it's because of her that Beatrice is a witch, but didn't Lambda previously make it so a human could become a God? Compared to that being a witch is a little thing.
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Old 2009-10-13, 11:41   Link #1213
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I would be almost certain that the true, human culprit has no meta-world presence, because the meta-world exists for the benefit of the fantasy angle and the mystery, and the human culprit or culprits have no need of these things. Odds are the mastermind(s) and killer(s) (who may be of any number or combination of alliances) are motivated by fairly simple and inherently human traits. If Battler (or anyone) is going to confront them, it's going to be on the game board itself where they operate.

Regarding "Kanon didn't die" theories: He sure seemed like he was supposed to be dead in ep3, and manipulating the red to say Kanon the TITLE died as opposed to Kanon the PERSON seems a bit flimsy for ep4. Still, if he only truly died in ep3, is that what allowed for a survivor? If Kanon is part of the puzzle, how would he relate to Battler's sin? Battler doesn't even know Kanon... does he? He certainly didn't seem to 6 years ago.
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Old 2009-10-13, 11:48   Link #1214
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the true, human culprit has no meta-world presence, because the meta-world exists for the benefit of the fantasy angle and the mystery, and the human culprit or culprits have no need of these things
All of the people on Rokkenima were accounted for in the metaworld of ep5. So you need to suspect someone who isn't supposed to be on Rokkenjima.
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Old 2009-10-13, 13:33   Link #1215
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
All of the people on Rokkenima were accounted for in the metaworld of ep5. So you need to suspect someone who isn't supposed to be on Rokkenjima.
Or that those weren't the actual people, but representations of them. Do you really believe the pieces on the board are aware of what's happening off of it, when most of the time even piece-Battler doesn't know?
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Old 2009-10-13, 14:42   Link #1216
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
All of the people on Rokkenima were accounted for in the metaworld of ep5. So you need to suspect someone who isn't supposed to be on Rokkenjima.
...Asumu...?
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Old 2009-10-13, 15:14   Link #1217
Marion
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...Asumu...?
Asumu is Beatrice. Umineko solved. And not in the Erika way either |D~

...buttt in seriousness it's probably the 19th caller guy. If phone lines are down from outside Rokkenjima only someone on the island can call.
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Old 2009-10-13, 15:35   Link #1218
Workworkwork
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...Asumu...?
Or, as I said before, Kyrie=Asumu's alias.

But anyway, I'd wager the 19th caller fellow is the "Mastermind" for the murders, or at least sets most of them off. As for the caller, probably Human!Beato, what with the voice apparently being "Too high-pitched" for a grown man.

Thinking about it, Genji could be added to "People who are already dead", leaving room for both Human!Beato AND "Evil killer mastermind".
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Old 2009-10-13, 15:40   Link #1219
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Asumu is Beatrice. Umineko solved. And not in the Erika way either |D~
LULZ. Actually I believe TsundereCake brought this theory up to me once as well, I think it was pretty popular at one point. Considering EP5, I don't see how it would work though haha. (WORST KIND OF INCEST, anyone?)

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...buttt in seriousness it's probably the 19th caller guy. If phone lines are down from outside Rokkenjima only someone on the island can call.
I've still got my bets on Juuza, not because it's a popular theory but because it would actually make sense He seems about the age, and he did seem kinda spooky in a cool way.

Another theory is Kanon, but I'm not fond of that one. Unless Kanon heard about the baby at the orphanage and dug up some info...HOLY CRAP NOW I'M LIKING THIS

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Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
As for the caller, probably Human!Beato, what with the voice apparently being "Too high-pitched" for a grown man.
Never thought about this before, but actually it's a great train of thought. Heck, Kanon's seiyuu in the anime is female- this isn't too farfetched...
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Old 2009-10-13, 15:42   Link #1220
Workworkwork
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LULZ. Actually I believe TsundereCake brought this theory up to me once as well, I think it was pretty popular at one point. Considering EP5, I don't see how it would work though haha. (WORST KIND OF INCEST, anyone?)



I've still got my bets on Juuza, not because it's a popular theory but because it would actually make sense He seems about the age, and he did seem kinda spooky in a cool way.

Another theory is Kanon, but I'm not fond of that one. Unless Kanon heard about the baby at the orphanage and dug up some info...HOLY CRAP NOW I'M LIKING THIS

Juuza's still suspicious to me, what with everyone else in 1998 getting photos except for him.
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