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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 32 21.48%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 45 30.20%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 43 28.86%
7 out of 10 : Good 18 12.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 4.03%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.67%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.67%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.01%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-10-13, 17:49   Link #361
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I agree for the most part, having such a huge cast of characters randomly dying after an episode per arc does not help, but who's decision was to have that many in the first place, what did he expect?

Anyway, in Higurashi whether I knew about Shion/Mion or not would not make the its questions arc less dramatic and frankly the same was true in the answers arc. In Umineko since the end of the second arc I find it harder and harder after each episode to care anymore about what is actually happening, say it is magic, oh well poor plot, give me a stretched hollywood explanation after a couple of months, I probably die laughing and admire my patience
The culprit's decision of course~ ;D They're the ones following the epitaph by the looks of it.

I discussed this actually just yesterday one phrase summarizes it: Higurashi is Easy Mode. Umineko is Troll Mode.

Higurashi I thought it was easy to see who the Big Bad was by what we were told by the 2nd arc. And yes Umineko is very much more confusing than Higurashi - that's the entire point. Ryukishi said so himself: he made the worst kind of tale that confuses you so you'll give up. Also the Cat Box explanation isn't very far-fetched at all. Granted it's a little wild, but it does work. There are two different layers on Rokkenjima - the real layer and the fantasy layer.
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Old 2009-10-13, 19:33   Link #362
libba
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Beato is so tsundere. XD

Explain something to me plz. Eva is in two places now: she is Eva who feels like someone has kidnapped her from the inside, and she is Eva-Beatrice who is a witch. Does that mean that the 19th person on the island before was non-witch-Beato who existed at the same time as the Golden Witch Beatrice, or it just a particular trait of Eva? Or, maybe, non-witch-Beato is long since dead, so it doesn't count...
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Old 2009-10-13, 19:39   Link #363
Ithekro
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Simple answer...we don't know.
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Old 2009-10-13, 22:22   Link #364
chronotrig
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If I can step in on the whole discussion about whether "Umineko had proper foreshadowing for people seeing things wrong", I'd just like to point out that Umineko is a sequel to Higurashi. Though no one thought Ryuukishi would copy Higurashi's story in Umineko, almost everyone has been keeping their eyes out for false scenes since the very beginning.

As for why they exist, we just don't know. You have to realize that Umineko is a series of games released over a 4 year period. If it was in any way possible to solve anything significant after the first 3 games, there'd be almost no point in reading the rest. The whole point of this series is trying to figure out as much of the puzzle as you can before you reach the end. If you just can't handle not knowing everything at the start of a story, then Umineko isn't for you.

If you're not willing to give the whole series a chance, it isn't the series for you. However, if you do give it a chance, you will be rewarded. It's as simple as that.
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Old 2009-10-14, 07:39   Link #365
Usami_Haru
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That is a spoiler please remove it.
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Old 2009-10-14, 07:44   Link #366
Crontica
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Ditto. For me, during Higurashi season 1 they did a beautiful job of destroying the comfortable seat that was the 4th wall.
In other anime you could just laugh and say "Hah the Butler did it cuz i sawz it!!1!!!one!one"
But Here there are so many god dam red herrings that you are as helpless as the people within the show.

The Umineko series so far seems to be focused too much on the multi-dimensions, they should be focusing on the Meta-World character development, well if they make a Second Season / OVA series to make up for the constant adaptation cuts then i have no complaints.
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Old 2009-10-14, 10:18   Link #367
risingstar3110
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I think both Higurashi and Umineko were similar in which three mystery were created: the one by human, the one by nature, and the one by super nature. This obviously much more challenge than most of mystery stories where only the mystery by human was presented (and few really good one have mystery of and nature mixing along).

Related to Higurashi....
Spoiler for Higurashi with all spoilers...:


Then if you trace that thought back to Umineko, the problem's not only the mystery was hard, but you can't identify which is which as well. For e.g. was the closed room problem in EP 2, belonged to human mystery, nature mystery or supernature mystery? Unlike a detective story, we don't even know what kind of being or thing the opponent is and what kind of game we are playing to "flip the chest board"

Then certainly i agree Umineko was a successor of Higurashi because it's harder than Higurashi (can call "Seacat" as Higurashi L2). I don't know how a person who hasn't seen Higurashi will think about Umineko.....

PS: the thing i regret most is i can't fund an animation company to make a perfect adaptation of both Higurashi and Umineko..... then sell it as drug to the kind like me....
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:06   Link #368
klare
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i believe after watching this eps, many will be screaming "what the..." like me

does this eps means Beato is keeping her promise of rewarding the person who found the gold? or it is another plot

now it seems we may see an unlikely pairing of Battler and Beato
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:13   Link #369
chounokoe
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I think another big problem with Umineko for many viewers outside of Japan is, that they cannot enjoy any crossmedial information given viah the internet for example, because of course it is in Japanese.
Many questions could be answered by things that were put up onto the website by now...but of course I think they've gotten sloppy since EP.1 ended...don't know if they are waiting to post the EP 2 Tea Party after it finished it's batch-airing or not, but EP 3 is already in the middle of action and well...they're only piling up work.

Another thing I seriously miss is a mention on the fact that Umineko is not only a mystery story alone, it is also a challenge towards us and a direct attack on detective and mystery fiction in itself by the author himself.
If you ever read about detective fiction, mystery fiction, meta-detective-fiction, rules concerning the construction of such a story you'll notice how deconstructive and also ironic, almost sarcastic, Umineko plays with all this. It is the ultimate challenge against any hobby-detective, who thinks that everything can be logically deconstructed by throwing not one literary device at him that was deemed 'improper to use' over time, but all of them at once.
This is not Dine, this is not Knox (Google them if you have to), of course it all seems like a big piece of madness at first, but it is so interesting because it not only diverges from some rules, but goes against all of them!
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:19   Link #370
Ttak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
does this eps means Beato is keeping her promise of rewarding the person who found the gold? or it is another plot
well, beato said "I keep my promises." (this is from game EP 2 but got cut from the anime) ^^
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:49   Link #371
Crontica
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So far we the viewers have been spoon-fed that the culprit is Beatrice. I mean just look at her! With a neon sign on her head and the proof to boot.
With no other explanation in sight we are forced to believe whats in front of us for the time being

Spoiler for Umineko Theory:



PS: Do you think if Kyoani got ahold of Higurashi / Umineko the adaptation would be brilliant or the latter?
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:55   Link #372
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KyoAni knows how to make good adaptations but I don't know well they could handle a series that isn't full of moe.
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Old 2009-10-14, 12:58   Link #373
Crontica
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Originally Posted by MarthX View Post
KyoAni knows how to make good adaptations but I don't know well they could handle a series that isn't full of moe.
They could push all the moe unto Maria and Beatrice's Transforming Screwdrivers
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:02   Link #374
Marion
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KyoAni is a troll company. We would get 9 episodes for one arc, but it would be the same exact stuff each episode. Plus they enjoy using a moeblob style that just looks too cutesy and deformed for a more serious seinen like Umineko and Higurashi (honestly I liked Haruhi Suzumiya's s1 art style far more than the K-On style they gave it s2).
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:12   Link #375
chounokoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crontica View Post
So far we the viewers have been spoon-fed that the culprit is Beatrice. I mean just look at her! With a neon sign on her head and the proof to boot.
With no other explanation in sight we are forced to believe whats in front of us for the time being

Spoiler for Umineko Theory:



PS: Do you think if Kyoani got ahold of Higurashi / Umineko the adaptation would be brilliant or the latter?
Well in fact we are being SO spoonfed it is Beatrice, that there should emerge at least a bit of awareness that it could be a big red herring.

And concering your breakdown of what the game is about there is one little misunderstanding.
Battler's job is not to prove that there is no murderer among the 18 people, he is free to go and suspect any one of them, hell he is free to do whatever he likes, his one and only goal is to prove that the murders on Rokkenjima in 1986 during the 3 days that Beatrice describes as the gameboard, were done without the use of magic and without the help of a supernatural being like a witch.

Of course he does not want the culprit to be one of his dear relatives or the servants who have been so nice to him, this is the very flaw that he carries around which gives Beatrice so much room to attack.
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:12   Link #376
Crontica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
KyoAni is a troll company. We would get 9 episodes for one arc, but it would be the same exact stuff each episode. Plus they enjoy using a moeblob style that just looks too cutesy and deformed for a more serious seinen like Umineko and Higurashi (honestly I liked Haruhi Suzumiya's s1 art style far more than the K-On style they gave it s2).
Still on the '8ate train i see, but yeah that arc still pains me to this day .

After the endless bullshit they pulled, Kyoani and the loopieous nature of Higumineko universe would become a potentially catastrophic combination .
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:24   Link #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
KyoAni is a troll company. We would get 9 episodes for one arc, but it would be the same exact stuff each episode. Plus they enjoy using a moeblob style that just looks too cutesy and deformed for a more serious seinen like Umineko and Higurashi (honestly I liked Haruhi Suzumiya's s1 art style far more than the K-On style they gave it s2).

But the SN's designs ARE moeblob and cutesy.

That being said, I don't want them to do it. That isn't to say I don't want it to be some other company, preferably one that can do good redesigns(Seriously, Fish-Battler is NOT a good upgrade..
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:27   Link #378
Jan-Poo
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If I was a character of a mystery novel I'd want to be the one who has a neon sing pointing at him saying "this is the culprit". There isn't a better alibi than that.
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:40   Link #379
Crontica
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
If I was a character of a mystery novel I'd want to be the one who has a neon sing pointing at him saying "this is the culprit". There isn't a better alibi than that.
Beatrice did it... But someone else also did it. The Culprit made Beatrice the perfect murderer in order to create the perfect alibi.
Now the problem is would you arrest both of them or the person who made Beatrice the scapegoat .
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Old 2009-10-14, 13:54   Link #380
Workworkwork
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I think you should remove that, Jan-Poo.
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