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Old 2009-10-16, 16:00   Link #4381
Daniel E.
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"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."
The curious thing about this comment is that if he were to do it the other way around; That is, not let them into his house and do his job properly, this whole thing would not even be an issue to begin with.
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:19   Link #4382
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Berlin brothel cuts rates for ‘green’ customers

I laughed my ass off for about 10 min. oh how i love this little blue jewel of a planet of ours.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33343052...e?wid=18298287
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:19   Link #4383
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Perhaps, but it's bound to cause more conflict that a marriage between two people of different color
Not necessarily. If nothing else, religion is a lot easier to hide than skin color.
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:23   Link #4384
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not necessarily. If nothing else, religion is a lot easier to hide than skin color.
Not for muslims. They tend to make quite a big deal out of it in fact, and mix religious unions are nearly a taboo for them if they're especially hardcore.
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:26   Link #4385
Anh_Minh
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Depends on the muslim - as with any religion, really.
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:36   Link #4386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Not for muslims. They tend to make quite a big deal out of it in fact, and mix religious unions are nearly a taboo for them if they're especially hardcore.
For the hardcore ones, it can be considered as a battle to win, if they can make the other side convert to Islam before/during the marriage. That is something they can use to market...

But, no reason to limit that other side option to other religions. I know that big problems may arise, even if both sides belong to the same religion, but different sects. I don't know how valid is this with Christianity, but it is a lot more valid with Islam. Since neither side want to resign from their own sects, it would be an ongoing battle during their marriage, and a bigger problem arise when they have the kids. Then, it becomes a family vs. family struggle, with the entry of the relatives...
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Old 2009-10-16, 16:39   Link #4387
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
For the hardcore ones, it can be considered as a battle to win, if they can make the other side convert to Islam before/during the marriage. That is something they can use to market...

But, no reason to limit that other side option to other religions. I know that big problems may arise, even if both sides belong to the same religion, but different sects. I don't know how valid is this with Christianity, but it is a lot more valid with Islam. Since neither side want to resign from their own sects, it would be an ongoing battle during their marriage, and a bigger problem arise when they have the kids. Then, it becomes a family vs. family struggle, with the entry of the relatives...
Exactly, which is why I'd be more concerned about religious backgrounds rather than skin color.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Depends on the muslim - as with any religion, really.
You're seriously underestimating muslim society, or overestimating them depending on how you look at it, but take it from someone who'se been in their country for four years and has still been in contact of members of their colture every year after that. They are very open about their beliefs and every chance they have, they will try to convert you. Multiple people, including my best friend (who'se from Egypt) have tried it with me. As for relationships, take it from someone with personal experience even. And there was also a case in Italy which happened not too long ago when a muslim family killed their own daughter because she was going out with someone from my country. It might not be the same for other religions, but when you have people like this, you just have to be deeply concerned.
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Old 2009-10-16, 17:02   Link #4388
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
You're seriously underestimating muslim society, or overestimating them depending on how you look at it, but take it from someone who'se been in their country for four years and has still been in contact of members of their colture every year after that. They are very open about their beliefs and every chance they have, they will try to convert you. Multiple people, including my best friend (who'se from Egypt) have tried it with me. As for relationships, take it from someone with personal experience even. And there was also a case in Italy which happened not too long ago when a muslim family killed their own daughter because she was going out with someone from my country. It might not be the same for other religions, but when you have people like this, you just have to be deeply concerned.
I've met a lot of muslims who were living in the US, some who's family was in the country for several generations to American converts to some who were immigrants themselves. (My anime club's office was 2 doors down from the muslim student association's office and we were the two most active clubs in terms of office use) I can tell you, based on my experience there's a big difference among individual muslims and none of them tried to convert me. Most of them were no different from any other person, except some of the girls who wore full hajibs, though there were others who dressed completely in western clothes without anything on their head at all. Other than some wearing traditional islamic clothes they acted just like anyone else though. Of course you can point out that the sample is biased because we're talking about muslims attending college in a western country. Still, not one of them gave me any reason to think of them any differently from anyone else.
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Old 2009-10-16, 17:05   Link #4389
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
I've met a lot of muslims who were living in the US, some who's family was in the country for several generations to American converts to some who were immigrants themselves. (My anime club's office was 2 doors down from the muslim student association's office and we were the two most active clubs in terms of office use) I can tell you, based on my experience there's a big difference among individual muslims and none of them tried to convert me. Most of them were no different from any other person, except some of the girls who wore full hajibs, though there were others who dressed completely in western clothes without anything on their head at all. Other than that they acted just like anyone else though. Of course you can point out that the sample is biased because we're talking about muslims attenting college in a western country. Still, not one of them gave me any reason to think of them any differently from anyone else.
Under normal circumstances they wouldn't act much differently from anyone else, but if you bring up any religious topics, they'd be pretty outspoken about it. Maybe it's different in the US and I don't know what it's like over there, but in Europe and the Middle East, they're very traditionalist and aren't exactly open to other points of view, like the example of a family from a muslim background in Italy complaining about a school because the cross was hung in each classroom (like in any other Italian elementary school for that matter) when they expose us to all their symbologies in their countries relentlessly and would go so far as cutting other people's hands off for publicly practicing any religion other and Islam, or the other muslim family killing their own daughter and burying her in their own backyard for going out with an Italian. And no, I'm not making this up. A family really did kill their own daughter and buried her in their own backyard. So you can see how they would deal with situations where for example their daughter wanted to marry someone from another religious background, especially when their culture doesn't allow that. I'm not saying every family would go so far as killing a relative. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it goes without saying that they take religious matters seriously, including marriages. There's more reason to be concerned for possible children for that rather than just different skin color.
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Old 2009-10-16, 17:40   Link #4390
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Under normal circumstances they wouldn't act much differently from anyone else, but if you bring up any religious topics, they'd be pretty outspoken about it. Maybe it's different in the US and I don't know what it's like over there, but in Europe and the Middle East, they're very traditionalist and aren't exactly open to other points of view, like the example of a family from a muslim background in Italy complaining about a school because the cross was hung in each classroom (like in any other Italian elementary school for that matter) when they expose us to all their symbologies in their countries relentlessly and would go so far as cutting other people's hands off for publicly practicing any religion other and Islam, or the other muslim family killing their own daughter and burying her in their own backyard for going out with an Italian. And no, I'm not making this up. A family really did kill their own daughter and buried her in their own backyard. So you can see how they would deal with situations where for example their daughter wanted to marry someone from another religious background, especially when their culture doesn't allow that. I'm not saying every family would go so far as killing a relative. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it goes without saying that they take religious matters seriously, including marriages. There's more reason to be concerned for possible children for that rather than just different skin color.
Why shouldn't they complain about a cross in the classroom where their kids go to school? They have a right not to have another religion shoved in their kid's face. It's a two way street. If you think muslims should keep their religion to themselves, shouldn't muslims expect others to in turn keep their religion to themselves as well? Of course that's me speaking as an athiest American. In the US, religion is supposed to be kept out of the classroom in public schools.

As for the honor killing you talk about, yes, I fully believe you when you say it happened, and I'm aware of other cases like that too. However, parents murdering their children is not confined to muslims. You might be able to point to things like sharia law that could be said to encourage stuff like that, but in the end it's because those people who did that were psychotic loons, and likely would have been psychotic loons if they weren't muslim.
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Old 2009-10-16, 17:50   Link #4391
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Under normal circumstances they wouldn't act much differently from anyone else, but if you bring up any religious topics, they'd be pretty outspoken about it. Maybe it's different in the US and I don't know what it's like over there, but in Europe and the Middle East, they're very traditionalist and aren't exactly open to other points of view, like the example of a family from a muslim background in Italy complaining about a school because the cross was hung in each classroom (like in any other Italian elementary school for that matter) when they expose us to all their symbologies in their countries relentlessly and would go so far as cutting other people's hands off for publicly practicing any religion other and Islam, or the other muslim family killing their own daughter and burying her in their own backyard for going out with an Italian. And no, I'm not making this up. A family really did kill their own daughter and buried her in their own backyard. So you can see how they would deal with situations where for example their daughter wanted to marry someone from another religious background, especially when their culture doesn't allow that. I'm not saying every family would go so far as killing a relative. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it goes without saying that they take religious matters seriously, including marriages. There's more reason to be concerned for possible children for that rather than just different skin color.
I'm European too, and have been confronted with plenty of muslims. My experience is, again, that it depends on the muslim. Some are pretty secular. And don't make the news, unlike the examples you cite. I wonder if there's a link?

Sure, you'll find the occasional nutjob. But, again, that's true of any religion.
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Old 2009-10-16, 17:57   Link #4392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
I've met a lot of muslims who were living in the US, some who's family was in the country for several generations to American converts to some who were immigrants themselves. (My anime club's office was 2 doors down from the muslim student association's office and we were the two most active clubs in terms of office use) I can tell you, based on my experience there's a big difference among individual muslims and none of them tried to convert me. Most of them were no different from any other person, except some of the girls who wore full hajibs, though there were others who dressed completely in western clothes without anything on their head at all. Other than some wearing traditional islamic clothes they acted just like anyone else though. Of course you can point out that the sample is biased because we're talking about muslims attending college in a western country. Still, not one of them gave me any reason to think of them any differently from anyone else.
You need to check the ones in a country where Muslims have a more powerful impact on the society. There, you will find different sects literally having competitions, of who will gain more followers in a shorter period. Believe me, they are acting in ways that you cannot imagine. In United States, most probably, if they attempt to something like that, it can get difficult for them to move freely. Because, they may be followed by the legal authorities, and that means trouble for them.

But, you should know they act more aggressive than your local people, who only knock your door, distribute bible, and invite you to their church.
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Old 2009-10-16, 18:07   Link #4393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
*snip*
:/ Christian parents killing their children and burying them somewhere exist too. Need examples?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Why shouldn't they complain about a cross in the classroom where their kids go to school?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm European too, and have been confronted with plenty of muslims. My experience is, again, that it depends on the muslim. Some are pretty secular.
What they said.
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Old 2009-10-16, 18:59   Link #4394
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Under normal circumstances they wouldn't act much differently from anyone else, but if you bring up any religious topics, they'd be pretty outspoken about it. Maybe it's different in the US and I don't know what it's like over there, but in Europe and the Middle East, they're very traditionalist and aren't exactly open to other points of view, like the example of a family from a muslim background in Italy complaining about a school because the cross was hung in each classroom (like in any other Italian elementary school for that matter) when they expose us to all their symbologies in their countries relentlessly and would go so far as cutting other people's hands off for publicly practicing any religion other and Islam, or the other muslim family killing their own daughter and burying her in their own backyard for going out with an Italian. And no, I'm not making this up. A family really did kill their own daughter and buried her in their own backyard. So you can see how they would deal with situations where for example their daughter wanted to marry someone from another religious background, especially when their culture doesn't allow that. I'm not saying every family would go so far as killing a relative. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it goes without saying that they take religious matters seriously, including marriages. There's more reason to be concerned for possible children for that rather than just different skin color.
Just a side comment, about the schools, why not forbidding any religious signs in places like that? Nowadays in europe, we live in countries in which not everyone has the same religion, so not showing any things that is related to a religion in particular would at least limit the problems in public places like schools, don't you think?
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Old 2009-10-16, 19:03   Link #4395
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Okada hopes Japan will participate more in U.N. peacekeeping missions

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Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada said Friday that he thinks Japan should be more active in participating in U.N. peacekeeping operations, showing disappointment over the current situation. Meanwhile, the minister said Japan cannot conduct peacekeeping operations for the International Security Assistance Force led by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Afghanistan, because of Japan’s five strict principles associated with a law allowing the deployment of Self-Defense Forces and others for U.N. peacekeeping activities.

The Japanese law on cooperation for U.N. peacekeeping and other operations can be applied for activities that are controlled by the United Nations, and not for activities of multinational forces such as the U.N.-mandated ISAF, a Foreign Ministry official said. For dispatches in situations that do not meet the principles of the law, such as a cease-fire among the parties concerned, parliament is required to pass a special law for each deployment.
Okada calls for respect for culture amid criticism of dolphin hunting

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Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada on Friday called for the need to respect each country’s culture or habits following criticism by environmental conservation groups and others of dolphin hunting in a western Japanese town. Dolphin hunting in the town of Taiji, Wakayama Prefecture, has sparked criticism after the U.S. documentary film ‘‘The Cove,’’ which highlighted the issue, was screened in the United States, Australia and other countries.

Okada told a press conference he has not seen the movie himself, but nonetheless suggested there were some parts that are not true. But he also said, ‘‘Various things can be edible depending on each country...I would like (people) to understand that culture is diverse.’’ The Cove is among the films to be shown during the 22nd Tokyo International Film Festival to start from Saturday.
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Old 2009-10-16, 19:55   Link #4396
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http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16001/38/

My take: if these airport scanners produce a realistic enough image of someone's body through clothing that you actually need to worry about whether they violate child porn laws if used on someone under 18 WITHOUT saving the image... you should probably be debating whether they're an invasion of privacy too.
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Old 2009-10-16, 21:27   Link #4397
LynnieS
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
For the hardcore ones, it can be considered as a battle to win, if they can make the other side convert to Islam before/during the marriage. That is something they can use to market...
Interestingly enough, my own experiences with Muslims tend to be that they are all strong believers in the religion's tenets - i.e., their faith don't waver to any significant degree - but the moderates don't go around trying to convert other people or looking to place their beliefs on them. Other religions' moderates tend to be... looser about following their respective religion's tenets - in addition to not preaching to people so much also - instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
But, no reason to limit that other side option to other religions. I know that big problems may arise, even if both sides belong to the same religion, but different sects. I don't know how valid is this with Christianity, but it is a lot more valid with Islam. Since neither side want to resign from their own sects, it would be an ongoing battle during their marriage, and a bigger problem arise when they have the kids. Then, it becomes a family vs. family struggle, with the entry of the relatives...
None of my Christian friends who married outside of their religious branch had this problem, but they are just a tiny subset of the population. Problems in the family tend to be caused more by socio-economic differences between husband and wife or made worse by their own families instead, but OTOH, none of my friends had to deal with the idea of abortion personally so that could be a conflict point. I've never studied the different branches of Christianity in detail, but overall in the U.S., they seem to be very much alike - outside of ceremonies' details and such?

2009 U.S. deficit is now US$1.42 trillion
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WASHINGTON – What is $1.42 trillion? It's more than the total national debt for the first 200 years of the Republic, more than the entire economy of India, almost as much as Canada's, and more than $4,700 for every man, woman and child in the United States.

It's the federal budget deficit for 2009, more than three times the most red ink ever amassed in a single year.
Ugh...

Russia is ready to abandon the U.S. Dollar in oil/gas trade with China
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BEIJING, October 14 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is ready to consider using the Russian and Chinese national currencies instead of the dollar in bilateral oil and gas dealings, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday.
BNO News: Iran says it will exclude the U.S. Dollar from foreign revenues and reserves

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Iran says it will soon exclude the U.S. dollar from the country's foreign revenues and reserves, state media reports.
From Twitter, and it looks to be breaking news ATM.
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Old 2009-10-16, 23:28   Link #4398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16001/38/

My take: if these airport scanners produce a realistic enough image of someone's body through clothing that you actually need to worry about whether they violate child porn laws if used on someone under 18 WITHOUT saving the image... you should probably be debating whether they're an invasion of privacy too.
Soon after, any security officer working at LAX will die mysteriously. Causes : Unstoppable Nasal Hemorrhage, bleeding to death.
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Old 2009-10-17, 01:26   Link #4399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Why shouldn't they complain about a cross in the classroom where their kids go to school? They have a right not to have another religion shoved in their kid's face. It's a two way street. If you think muslims should keep their religion to themselves, shouldn't muslims expect others to in turn keep their religion to themselves as well? Of course that's me speaking as an athiest American. In the US, religion is supposed to be kept out of the classroom in public schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm European too, and have been confronted with plenty of muslims. My experience is, again, that it depends on the muslim. Some are pretty secular. And don't make the news, unlike the examples you cite. I wonder if there's a link?

Sure, you'll find the occasional nutjob. But, again, that's true of any religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Just a side comment, about the schools, why not forbidding any religious signs in places like that? Nowadays in europe, we live in countries in which not everyone has the same religion, so not showing any things that is related to a religion in particular would at least limit the problems in public places like schools, don't you think?
If we do that, they should do the same, but they don't, and I'm only referring to elementary schools. Schools teaching secondary level education and a bove don't normally have any religious signs. Yet they complain about us when they have more than just a few signs in their own country and prevent us from public practice. We're already too tolerant as it is. Doesn't that make them hypocritical in a sense?
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Old 2009-10-17, 01:45   Link #4400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
You're seriously underestimating muslim society, or overestimating them depending on how you look at it, but take it from someone who'se been in their country for four years and has still been in contact of members of their colture every year after that. They are very open about their beliefs and every chance they have, they will try to convert you. Multiple people, including my best friend (who'se from Egypt) have tried it with me. As for relationships, take it from someone with personal experience even. And there was also a case in Italy which happened not too long ago when a muslim family killed their own daughter because she was going out with someone from my country. It might not be the same for other religions, but when you have people like this, you just have to be deeply concerned.
Take it from someone who was born and raised in a country where Muslims make up a significant minority....they don't all act like that, especially here. Sure, some of them wear hijab (So? I'm all for variety in cultural fashions), they stick to halal food (and our F&B infrastructure here has been designed to cater to that for decades, so it's an excellent arrangement either way), and anyone who wants to marry them has to convert (and it's not like they're the only religion which insists on that), but when it comes to religious discourse? I've never had a local Muslim try to shove his/her faith in my face. Not once, not in all 23 years of my life. Which is more than can be said for a certain emerging brand of Christian fundamentalist nutjobs around here.

See the problem with personal anecdotes now? It doesn't help to resort to hasty generalizations when it comes to describing certain groups of people.
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