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Old 2009-10-21, 03:42   Link #1001
Jarmel
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Well first off he's pissed off the homunculi enough for this to be a matter of revenge. Second of all is that he seems to be one of the more capable alchemists even among the state alchemists. Third reason would be dramatic effect. Fourth reason is convenience as he is right there and they need to get the fifth to Father's room very quickly. The fifth reason is that Scar killed off alot of the State Alchemists who could possibly have been sacrifices.
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Old 2009-10-21, 09:05   Link #1002
Sannom
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Originally Posted by K_Babyy
I'm just wondering why they think he's the best person to open the gate?
Spirit and willpower. Ambition too probably. Decisiveness.
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Old 2009-10-21, 17:26   Link #1003
K_Babyy
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Ahh, I see. I agree.
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Old 2009-10-21, 19:23   Link #1004
Haladflire65
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Overall, I think, he's a powerful person, and as a lot of people mentioned, an excellent alchemist.
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Old 2009-10-21, 23:54   Link #1005
GaimeGuy
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K Babyy:

Marcoh and Mustang are pretty much the two smartest and best alchemists that could be sacrifices... both have been the primary choices for Father/Central. It has been indicated as such for most of the 2nd half of the manga, if you've been paying attention.

Mustang's definitely more self-sacrificing/naive than Marcoh, though, so he'd be willing to do something like open the gate if it meant saving someone he cares about from death. that's probably why they settled upon Mustang instead of Marcoh.

(The central high command also had discussed Kimbley as an option, but they decided that he wouldn't have the guts to go through with it)
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Old 2009-10-22, 00:19   Link #1006
K_Babyy
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Originally Posted by GaimeGuy View Post
K Babyy:

Marcoh and Mustang are pretty much the two smartest and best alchemists that could be sacrifices... both have been the primary choices for Father/Central. It has been indicated as such for most of the 2nd half of the manga, if you've been paying attention.

Mustang's definitely more self-sacrificing/naive than Marcoh, though, so he'd be willing to do something like open the gate if it meant saving someone he cares about from death. that's probably why they settled upon Mustang instead of Marcoh.

(The central high command also had discussed Kimbley as an option, but they decided that he wouldn't have the guts to go through with it)
I do remember that! It's been a while since I've read that part. I remember them talking about Kimblee, too. Thanks for clarifying! I can't wait til 101.
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Old 2009-10-22, 12:47   Link #1007
Tsuyoshi
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Yeah, I always thought Mustang would be more likely than Marcoh because the old man's grown used to losing people, not to mention he isn't really close to anyone to actually open the gate. Additionally, he even has the technique that works perfectly against Homunculi, that being the anti-philosopher-stone transmutation. They needed someone younger and more willing to open the gate to save someone close to him. Mustang fit the bill really nicely.
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Old 2009-10-22, 22:09   Link #1008
Vicious108
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I wonder why they didn't consider Armstrong. Being the softie that he is, you'd think they'd consider him for alchemists who'd try to bring people back to life.
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Old 2009-10-22, 22:11   Link #1009
orangejuicetang
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Maybe not skilled enough? idk. It's generally pretty hard to tell how skilled an alchemist is since their all so specialized. And apparently human transmutations are difficult. Or maybe he is a potential sacrifice too. It's kinda vague.
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Old 2009-10-22, 22:14   Link #1010
yezhanquan
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I wonder why they didn't consider Armstrong. Being the softie that he is, you'd think they'd consider him for alchemists who'd try to bring people back to life.
Well, there is steel beneath him, and we didn't really see who he would want to bring back from the dead.
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Old 2009-10-23, 04:10   Link #1011
Jarmel
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Again it pretty much boils down to skill level. Every single confirmed sacrifice is pretty much a genius and all the unconfirmed ones too. It's not just opening the gate but coming back alive. My understanding is if you screwed this up then the rebound will just straight up kill you instead of just losing a limb. Not only the skill level but you also have to be somewhat insane(usually insane with grief) to try this. It's not just being sentimental but an almost obsessiveness with that person. I mean christ if you're afraid of a nutjob like Kimbley backing out then there is no way you can expect a normal person to go through with it.

As the Doctor mentioned, only 4, well technically three, people were clever enough, stupid enough, and crazy enough to attempt human transmutation. I mean Al would probably have backed out if Ed hadn't really pushed him into it.

On a separate note, have we ever got a full roster of the State Alchemists?
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Old 2009-10-23, 07:34   Link #1012
Sannom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight
I wonder why they didn't consider Armstrong. Being the softie that he is, you'd think they'd consider him for alchemists who'd try to bring people back to life.
He may be too "down to earth" for it? Or his crackdown in Ishbal was an indication, for them, that he wasn't the kind to try and break such a taboo as the one of playing God. He's too humble for that. People who opens the door are arrogant and prideful about their skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel
Every single confirmed sacrifice is pretty much a genius
I still consider Mustang as just above average. His skills mostly resume around destroying things and using an alchemy that was given to him by his master's daughter.
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Old 2009-10-23, 10:18   Link #1013
Haladflire65
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I still consider Mustang as just above average. His skills mostly resume around destroying things and using an alchemy that was given to him by his master's daughter.
I still personally think he's one of the best. Probably controlling oxygen and making fire obey him isn't as easy as he makes it look - and Riza said that 'an average alchemist' can't decipher the tattoo on her back. Which pretty much says that Roy's a pretty good.
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Old 2009-10-23, 16:48   Link #1014
GaimeGuy
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Roy is not an average alchemist. the fact that he knows flame alchemy and has been recognized as a sacrifice candidate are proof. And everyone seems pretty confident in his ability to survive going through the gate.

actually, if I recall, the guys in central weren't really sold on Marcoh's ability to survive the process. They said something along the line of "perhaps..." when his name was brought up.

The fact that Father's group specifically settled on Mustang suggests he was the best candidate. Now, that's not to say he's as much of a genius as Ed or Izumi (certainly not hohenheim :P) but he's probably better than Al

Technically, Al didn't really survive the process, in the sense that he was completely taken by the gate. It's only because Ed gave up his arm that Al's soul wasn't taken (I assume that after the creature that they created died, Al's soul, which had bound to it, went back to his real body in the gate, temporarily.) So you could say Al survived the process to become a confirmed sacrifice only because of Ed.

Ed > Izumi > Al in talent, if you go by how little they lost by going through the gate. I wouldn't be surprised if Mustang were right next to Ed in talent, or even ahead, TBH. He's certainly been the most unfazed when it comes to Ed's talent compared to other individuals and alchemists. (although that could be just because he's known about the human transmutation since he met him).
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Old 2009-10-23, 17:21   Link #1015
Jarmel
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I certainly wouldn't rank Hohenheim at the top though, he's definitely a genius despite his humble beginnings but the whole immortality was done by Father and Hohenheim really just picked up the scraps left from Father. We're given the impression that he is some super genius throughout the series but his backhistory kinda explains that away. His quick domination by Father after Father got serious shows who still is the master(although he did do better than anyone before him).

In regards to Mustang, we haven't really seen him put into a really intellectually spot. The only time I can think of was the switcharoo with Maria Ross. A good way of looking at it is that Mustang and Ed are on parallel paths. Ed is trying to deal with the intellectual side of Father while Mustang is dealing with the physical side(mainly running the country and taking control away from Bradley).

To be fair though, no regular alchemist would even be a State Alchemist due to the rigorous testing.

About Al, I would say he's the weakest alchemist of the 5 as it seems he got the physical talent over the alchemist skills in the family. Al is hard to compare as he is pretty much in the shadows against his brother who is a prodigy. However we have seen him pull some clever stuff out of his metal head such as his fight with Pride.
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Old 2009-10-23, 22:09   Link #1016
Sannom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaimeGuy
actually, if I recall, the guys in central weren't really sold on Marcoh's ability to survive the process. They said something along the line of "perhaps..." when his name was brought up.
They said "Not yet, but soon" for Marcoh. And didn't even brought up Mustang if I remember correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaimeGuy
but he's probably better than Al
Al is better than Ed intellectually, you should know that Mustang's not better than Al, of that I'm sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaimeGuy
The fact that Father's group specifically settled on Mustang suggests he was the best candidate.
Mister, they took away Marcoh just because they were lacking in personel and didn't want a potential sacrifice to run around. That's how precious he was to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaimeGuy
Ed > Izumi > Al in talent, if you go by how little they lost by going through the gate.
I don't think that talent has anything to do with how little you lose in the gate. For me, it's more a state of spirit than anything else. Talent is measured by the result of the human transmutation, and on that account, Jude from the Blind Alchemist is clearly the best alchemist ever : the thing he created had a functionnal body, even if the transmutation was still a failure.
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Old 2009-10-24, 05:52   Link #1017
Jarmel
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I think it's been very extensively detailed in the manga at a certain point it becomes less about the alchemist's skills and more about what materials they have around them(again unless you're Father or Hohenheim as they have philosopher stones). I still believe Ed and maybe Izumi are a step above Al and Mustang but after a point it really doesn't matter.

I'm sure Mustang is more than capable of using regular alchemy but really doesn't need to. Him and Kimblee are in combat situations in most of the times requiring their alchemy so that is what they use.

I do disagree about what is lost in the gate is = skill level.

Besides there is more than one type of intelligence so this whole debate is moot.
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Old 2009-10-24, 06:45   Link #1018
tzia_n
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Didn't the manga say what is lost in the gate = how much of the truth you saw?
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Old 2009-10-24, 19:49   Link #1019
GaimeGuy
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Didn't the manga say what is lost in the gate = how much of the truth you saw?
No, that was only a theory that Ed and Izumi had.

It's probably somewhat the reverse: The smarter you already are, the less knowledge you gain from seeing the Truth, and the lower your passage fee. Considering the fact that you have to be a genius to survive going through the gate, it would certainly suggest that the passage fee is based on how much knowledge you already have.
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Old 2009-10-24, 19:54   Link #1020
Haladflire65
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Hm. Maybe there's a possibility that Roy won't survive...?
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