AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-10-23, 06:30   Link #61
Kitsune
九尾の狐
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: With lots of bunny girls.
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Nooo, it's this kind of thread.
And it's my fault! xD

Anyway...
No, I don't eat me.
There is no morally relevant difference between an animal possessing a central nervous system and a human being. People can roll their eyes at me all their want, but killing a sentient being is nothing short of murder to me.
However, since it's "normal" in our culture to eat meat, there is a difference between someone who murders humans and someone who kills animals for the purpose of producing meatin my eyes. It's not like I see my friends and family as horrible human beings because they eat meat - I just believe they are being morally inconsistent and doing something that is terribly wrong, because we can survive without eating meat.
I also don't blame the few people who truly feel their life wouldn't be worth living without eating meat, since it's a vital interest against a vital interest (well, many vital interests), and we tend to put out own lives and those of our loved ones first.
Are we talking about eating meat or about cannibalism? Do you really think people who eat meat are like cannibals? This is pretty radical
Kitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 06:35   Link #62
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
Are we talking about eating meat or about cannibalism? Do you really think people who eat meat are like cannibals? This is pretty radical
Er... what? xD
I was talking about the killing, not the eating of human beings.
...And I'm not sure where you see cannibalism mentioned in my posting. xD

Edit: Hm. Maybe I should have written "normal in our culture to eat the meat of animals".
*goes and edits*
But stilll... xD

Editē: All right. I hope now it's not so easily misunderstood anymore. xD
I think the problem was that the possibility of cannibalism didn't even cross my mind when I wrote that.
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 06:51   Link #63
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Nooo, it's this kind of thread.
And it's my fault! xD

Anyway...
No, I don't eat me.
There is no morally relevant difference between an animal possessing a central nervous system and a human being. People can roll their eyes at me all their want, but killing a sentient being is nothing short of murder to me.
However, since it's "normal" in our culture to eat the meat of animals, there is a difference between someone who murders humans for fun and someone who kills animals for the purpose of producing meat in my eyes. It's not like I see my friends and family as horrible human beings because they eat meat - I just believe they are being morally inconsistent and doing something that is terribly wrong, because we can survive without eating meat.
I also don't blame the few people who truly feel their life wouldn't be worth living without eating meat, since it's a vital interest against a vital interest (well, many vital interests), and we tend to put out own lives and those of our loved ones first.
So if I understand what you mean you're vegetarian ? But you know that animal eat other animal to survive. It's natural and there is nothing wrong with it. And it's not normal in our culture, it's the life cycle.
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 06:51   Link #64
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Anyway...
No, I don't eat me.
I think that's where the confusion came from iibh

Anyways, I agree with Kusa-san here. It's more than just a matter of culture imho. Yes, there are some religions that prohibit meat consuption, such as Buddhism. But I tell you now, there is someone who is Buddhist at work and he eats as much meat as anyone else would. The fact is that humans are omnivorous. It is natural for humans to eat meat as well as vegetables. Unlike certain other debates about what is natural and what isn't, humans' drive toward meat consumption is perfectly natural. What is not natural is eating other humans. Other animals eat other animals as well, but none of those meat eating animals eat members of the same species.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 06:54   Link #65
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
So if I understand what you mean you're vegetarian ? But you know that animal eat other animal to survive. It's natural and there is nothing wrong with it. And it's not normal in our culture, it's the life cycle.
Animals do a lot of things we consider morally wrong. They lack the ability to reason morally. They are what is known as a moral patient, while a healthy human adult is a moral agent.
Also, we can survive without eating meat, while a carnivore can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I think that's where the confusion came from iibh
But... but... I just answered the question! xD
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 06:57   Link #66
Kitsune
九尾の狐
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: With lots of bunny girls.
Age: 29
So you're saying peple who eat meat are cannibals because "is like eating you" or are you maybe not a human being?
Kitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:01   Link #67
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Animals do a lot of things we consider morally wrong. They lack the ability to reason morally. They are what is known as a moral patient, while a healthy human adult is a moral agent.
Also, we can survive without eating meat, while a carnivore can't.
Different animals have different reasoning. They rely more on their instincts, and some animals don't even have a choice. As a matter of fact, humans are the only species that I know of at least who are able to eat both meat and vegetables. Lions, Tigers, Bears, and other animals of their kind are able to consume meat and only meat. That's what they need to do to survive. You can't say they lack moral reasoning. From their point of view, there is no room for moral reasoning if their life is on the line. It is true that our life isn't as we can go without meat and that's also perfectly acceptable. Whether we eat meat or not, either way is fine because we can survive either way, and it's natural for humans to eat either meat or just veggies as it is natural for a lion to eat only meat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
But... but... I just answered the question! xD
Well, it's the way you said it that made it confusing. It's pretty obvious you wouldn't eat yourself
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:03   Link #68
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
So you're saying peple who eat meat are cannibals because "is like eating you" or are you maybe not a human being?
Actually, if we all ate our own species, we would have a serious problem.
However, I do indeed believe that killing me is, morally speaking, no better or worse than killing my dog.

And concerning the "natural" thing...
There are a lot of things that can be considered natural we consider morally wrong, and there are a lot of things some might consider unnatural that we don't view as harmful at all.
If we say everything that is natural is moral, and that everything that isn't is immoral, then everyone can just do what they want and no one can blame them, since hey, killing others for your personal gain and ruthlessly conquering other countries is perfectly natural.

Edit:
I have never seen my dog contemplating whether an action is morally wrong, because yes, dogs do follow instincs. They can choose to eat the fish instead of the bird, but they don't care about human concepts of morality, or any moral reasoning at all.

Editē:
OMG!
I just saw the typo.
It's meat! Not me! Meat!
...How could I overread that even when someone pointed it out to me?
Epic fail. xD
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia

Last edited by Nogitsune; 2009-10-23 at 07:14.
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:13   Link #69
Ansalem
Speaker
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Different animals have different reasoning. They rely more on their instincts, and some animals don't even have a choice. As a matter of fact, humans are the only species that I know of at least who are able to eat both meat and vegetables. Lions, Tigers, Bears, and other animals of their kind are able to consume meat and only meat.
Actually, bears (and a fairly wide variety of small mammals, birds, and some other creatures) are also omnivores.

But that aside, killing animals to eat is by no means morally wrong. Animals don't share the same level of intellect and consciousness as humans. Besides this, we are physiologically made to eat meat for nutrition. While it's true that it is possible to gain similar nutrients from other foods, I find it perfectly natural and morally acceptable to eat meat. I will admit that the conditions some animals are kept in are deplorable, but humanely raised and slaughtered meat is alright (and tasty) to me.
Ansalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:15   Link #70
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
This topic reminds me of this dirty joke.

Lesbian vegetarians and perverts can be cannibals in a sense. They eat beancurd.

I do eat meat. I like fish.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:16   Link #71
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
But that aside, killing animals to eat is by no means morally wrong. Animals don't share the same level of intellect and consciousness as humans.
Ah, so killing infants and people who have suffered severe brain damage is all right?
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:26   Link #72
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 26
Yes, I eat meat
I am not the kind of person that stands still with what an animal goes through
I've seen how a slaughterhouse works and have seen how pigs got drained and ripped from their skin
I even filmed in a meat house where they would slice up the animals for consumers and restaurants

I have many vegetarian friends who oppose meat and all that though non of them mind about my meat eating as long as I respect their house rules and don't eat it in their home. I don't mind lol

The one thing I do oppose is the cheap meat industry, think of Mc Donald's burgers for example
I like quality meat not cheap junk food
However I do eat candy which sometimes is made of the bones of an animal, basically I don't really care if it made of bones.. I mean do you want to throw that away to rot? I find that an example of wasting food and out of respect for the animal wouldn't throw parts of it away in the trash
Usually all parts gets used for something, I don't mind eating meat but I do mind if people kill an animal and only use a small portion of it and ditch the rest in the trash
Out of respect for the animal whose life was given for a meal I eat my platter empty

edit:

I can see where Nogitsune is coming from, well a little, when it comes to the nature thing
Nature doesn't have food stores where you can buy a vegan burger, nor does a wolf cook
Also a carnivore's stomach doesn't handle herbivore foods well, the whole system is different
However humans can choose between meat and non meats and pick for themselves without animal instincts but with common sense

This does not mean I will suddenly become a vegetarian though
Although there is a choice but not in all countries is that choice a logical one or a healthy one
I could go vegan but I think I'd need medication as well if I do so because even now I have anemia, I would get ill even faster as I do now
Also my father would kill me as in his culture adding meat to food is a common thing, nasi without meat in it is just rice with veggies in it

What I did notice in this country is that I have hardly ever seen an obese vegetarian, so my idea would be this if you want to lose weight.. become a vegetarian =D
not proven obviously but ti was just something that caught my eye

But back on topic, in not every country you have the possibility to become a vegetarian. As a vegetarian Africa is the last place you'd wanna be, the tribe folk there kill goats by hand, drink their blood and use each part of the animal (the Chinese do this with snakes and make tea from the blood)
There were TV shows of Dutch families going there to "swap living style" and the daughters were vegetarian, however there is not a vegetable around in that area and those people live of meat. those poor spoiled girls were horrified
I'm not saying that being a vegetarian automatically makes you spoiled but in a situation like that where you have no choice but to eat meat I simply think it is better to think about survival and respect the animal that just died instead of screaming "inhumane" while waving the corpse off as a pest and not eating anything at all

Last edited by -KarumA-; 2009-10-23 at 07:43.
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:36   Link #73
Irkalla
I asked for this
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winterfell
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Hmmm, never had horse meat. I did have duck meat _and found it more than exquisite_ but I guess that's pretty popular. We have a horse meat vendor near to where I live in Sicily but I never tried going there. And you're officially the first person I've ever known to have eaten Kangaroo meat. I've never met a single australian person who actually had that according to my knowledge (I'm guessing that's where you're from since you mentioned it). What's that taste like iyho?
You should try horse meat, it's a lot like beef, just tastier and with less fat! And duck yum yum, especially if its crusty/crunchy. And I'm faaar from Australia, although that is where I first tried kangaroo meat. Though I think locals don't like it that much, kinda feels weird since they are living with them and all. It tastes kinda like beef too, just tougher and tastier (imho) also has very little fat and much nutrition. Probably one of the beast meats as far as quality goes. Besides that, kangaroo meat is also very environment friendly, since kangaroos emit very little methane. Another weird meat I tried was camel meat, lol. But I can't get that here
__________________
Irkalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:39   Link #74
Gin
Senior Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In your mom's pants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaseka View Post
The reason being that I absolutely love horse meat, which tends to be quite a great taboo, although it really depends where you live. Another weird one I love is kangaroo meat, very healthy.
I don't even know of a store to get horse meat from, my neighbor has horses but I don't think he will let me eat any of them. What does it taste like? And I didn't know that people ate kangaroo, I guess I thought they were and endangered species.
__________________
I hate most of you.
Gin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:42   Link #75
Ansalem
Speaker
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Ah, so killing infants and people who have suffered severe brain damage is all right?
Mmm baby sandwich. But no, that's not the same. I said killing animals for the consumption of meat for nutrition, a natural process. Cannibalism is aberration for humans, however common it may be for spiders, etc. We have a biological imperative to raise our youth to their potential, and a moral obligation to care for our injured and sick. No matter what kind of posturing you use, other animals are not the same as humans and are not subject to the same kinds of protection. I don't think animals should be cruelly treated, and I'm not going to eat my dog, but meat is proper food and I will eat it.

Edit: I have no problem with people who choose not to eat meat, or even animal products. It's their right to eat however they choose. However, I don't think eating meat is morally wrong and I express my opinion thus.
Ansalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:47   Link #76
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Ah, so killing infants and people who have suffered severe brain damage is all right?
it is called abortion and euthanasia
and yes it does happen in some countries

However there is also the religious factor, the human race has always been seen supreme to anything else
This is one of the pointers why it is seen as okay to kill animals

I am not saying that I believe this though, I am merely pointing it out
Because the majority of the world is still ruled by what religion thinks we should think and do
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:49   Link #77
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
Mmm baby sandwich. But no, that's not the same. I said killing animals for the consumption of meat for nutrition, a natural process. Cannibalism is aberration for humans, however common it may be for spiders, etc.
I'm not talking about cannibalism.
It's natural for a wild animal under certain circumstances to kill its child if it is weak, and here and there, it used to be for humans. It's natural for humans to be selfish and greedy, so why not ruthlessly conquer and suppress others?
Saying something is natural is not a valid argument. And if killing an animal is all right because it is less intelligent, then the same could be said for an infant.

Quote:
We have a biological imperative to raise our youth to their potential,
I also have a biological imperative to desire to have children... oh, wait. I lack that.

Quote:
and a moral obligation to care for our injured and sick.
Why?

Quote:
No matter what kind of posturing you use, other animals are not the same as humans and are not subject to the same kinds of protection.
Whites are not blacks, men are not women. So what?

Quote:
I don't think animals should be cruelly treated
Why not?
If it's fun, and the animal has no rights, why shouldn't I poke it in the eye a bit, or do whatever else I want to to it?
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:51   Link #78
Irkalla
I asked for this
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winterfell
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gin View Post
I don't even know of a store to get horse meat from, my neighbor has horses but I don't think he will let me eat any of them. What does it taste like? And I didn't know that people ate kangaroo, I guess I thought they were and endangered species.
Lol, I get it from local butchers. We also have fast food restaurants that serve horse burgers and it's called HOT HORSE, lmao. It tastes like chicken No, more like beef but sweeter and finer + less fat.
__________________
Irkalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:54   Link #79
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
I am not saying that I believe this though, I am merely pointing it out
Because the majority of the world is still ruled by what religion thinks we should think and do
This is why I think religion can be dangerous.
However, just because a fanatic tells me killing women who commit adultery is all right, I don't have to respect their opinion. And actually, I don't think Germany, for example, is ruled by religion anymore. If anything, it's some Christian values that remain.
__________________
"I think of the disturbance in Area 11 as a chess puzzle, set forth by Lelouch." - Clovis la Britannia
Nogitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-23, 07:56   Link #80
Kafriel
Senior Guest
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 25
Quote:
I could never enjoy beer. Maybe, that's why I am not really carnivorous.
I love meat and despise all sorts of beer, sorry :P
Quote:
The reason being that I absolutely love horse meat, which tends to be quite a great taboo
Nothing like that here, pastrami exists in all its glory, although I hate it, tastes like...trying to get honey out of coffee, that bad On a side note I'm not particularly fond of cow meat, the odour is quite strong even after hours in the kitchen.
Quote:
killing a sentient being is nothing short of murder to me.
Hey, if a bear sees you in the woods it will eat you up alive, they don't even bother killing you first...I remember this story on Ripley's about a hunter who had his skull crunched by a bear while playing dead
On a more serious approach towards animals, they accept death and killing as a part of their life and food cycle, they see results and act accordingly. Now, having guinea pigs and torturing animals is definitely evil, but killing to eat is part of nature. Anyway, you've thought out our side too so I'm just commenting, there's no debate to start here.
Whites are not blacks, men are not women. So what?
They're all humans, racism is seen as a problem by everyone, the pack killing the wounded to feed the rest find it normal.
Quote:
It's natural for a wild animal under certain circumstances to kill its child if it is weak, and here and there, it used to be for humans. It's natural for humans to be selfish and greedy, so why not ruthlessly conquer and suppress others?
That's why they're animals and we have a human side to us. Cannibalism is just wrong, we are superior to animals so we can see it, while they can't. If they could understand it, then we'd have them locked up in jail, be sure of that
Quote:
because we can survive without eating meat.
This, however, is a very soft spot; human beings are very robust and have great endurance, despite common belief of being fragile and weak. They can survive for months with just water, salt and one meal every four days of work, but just because they can doesn't mean they have to, in modern society such treatment is cruel (unless religion is involved, but let's not go there yet again ). I could be a hardcore vegetarian, I've fasted a few times in my life and it's not as tragic as some might think, but having meat again later felt very nice.
Anyway, to each their own, as long as they understand and respect each other's pov, there shouldn't be any problems.
__________________

Last edited by Kafriel; 2009-10-23 at 08:03. Reason: added a few more quotez for nogitsune^^
Kafriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.