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Old 2009-10-27, 00:13   Link #461
synaesthetic
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Both are x86 architectures.

Not having a BIOS is different, but still there's more similarities now than their ever were.
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Old 2009-10-27, 01:59   Link #462
jpwong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightlumina View Post
Ummm.... Macs do not have a BIOS.
I think the implication is that if you gutted a Laptop and a Macbook and put just the core hardware side by side on a table, you wouldn't really be able to tell them apart these days.
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Old 2009-10-27, 05:55   Link #463
Willen
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Actually, Macs do have a BIOS (Basic Input/Output System), or more specifically, boot firmware that does the same job as BIOS; which is to initialize and check the devices in your computer (POST) and start the boot loader which will load your operating system. BIOS also manages some software and hardware interactions, like power management.

Current Macs use EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) which is for all intents and purposes a more advanced BIOS. It does the same basic tasks as BIOS and more, while getting rid of its 16-bit limitations.

Considering that current Intel-based Macintosh machines support, via Boot Camp, installation of x86 Windows XP and newer, they are almost identical to any modern x86 PC. You can even get MacOS X from 10.4.4 onward to run on non-Apple hardware, and create what is knows as a Hackintosh. Yes, that means running MacOS X on machines with BIOS via EFI emulation. Basically, the opposite of what Apple does to have Windows run on Intel Mac hardware.

At any rate, that's not what I originally came here to post. I just wanted to put this here for people who may want to see what the Nanami Theme for Windows 7 is like:



And this:

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Old 2009-10-27, 06:40   Link #464
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
You do know that Macs and PCs are pretty much the same kind of computer now, right? The only real difference is the OS.
Actually you are kinda right, since both of them are copying each others' PC architecture nowadays.

P.S If anyone starts a flame war here, the best way to douse it is to post Nanami Madobe pictures here. Her moe will calm all the nerves here.
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Old 2009-10-27, 07:06   Link #465
synaesthetic
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Some PCs use EFI too. My eeePC uses EFI to speed boot times, and I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons it's so easy to put OSX on a netbook.
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Old 2009-10-27, 07:31   Link #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rungelunge View Post
*snip*
Whoa there... I never said it's horrible... but every OSes is going to have their strengths and weaknesses... and I always felt that Windows is still a high maintenance OS no matter you look at it for the 10+ years I have been using it. Compared to the free alternative, Ubuntu, it runs faster since it doesn't have the registry and also have a more efficient file system that automatically defragments iteself. Unix like systems are going to be more stable and faster than Windows because the Unix operating system is alot older than Windows and have matured alot, which is a main reason why Unix is used more in scientific fields and servers than Windows...

I would rather not start a OS War because they are pointless and counterproductive and would be against the rules anyways...
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Old 2009-10-27, 07:42   Link #467
synaesthetic
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From what I've seen so far Windows 7 is good. Everything great about Vista, almost everything bad about it gone, except that stupid UAC (which can thankfully be turned off). The OSX-alike UI improvements are really weird to someone used to WinXP, but I'm sure I'll get used to it in time.

I don't plan on converting over to Windows 7 until a service pack is released, however. If I manage to replace my derelict primary computer before Windows 7 SP1 comes out, that is.
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Old 2009-10-27, 08:27   Link #468
npal
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I'll say it one more time, do NOT turn the UAC off. People turn the UAC off, then something goes wrong and somehow it's Windows' fault. I don't undestand the UAC psychosis, just let it be in its default stage and pray the idiots that made whatever programs wrongly ask for admin rights will fix their damn programs.
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Old 2009-10-27, 08:36   Link #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
I'll say it one more time, do NOT turn the UAC off. People turn the UAC off, then something goes wrong and somehow it's Windows' fault. I don't undestand the UAC psychosis, just let it be in its default stage and pray the idiots that made whatever programs wrongly ask for admin rights will fix their damn programs.
Agreed.... UAC is needed to prevent people from doing harmful things to the computer, and it's no more annoying than Linux and Mac OS X asking for a password (or needing to use sudo to execute a command) when you making changes to the system files/settings.

Actually, I set UAC to the highest level since I'm used to having prompts when I modify the system and I don't feel the need to use a Anti-virus because of it (and it adds extra bloat anyways). Not to mention, disabling UAC will disable Internet Explorer Protected Mode which sandboxes the IE window to prevent installation of malware.
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Old 2009-10-27, 13:12   Link #470
Vexx
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Scratching my head a bit here.... one thing I've *always* been able to do with any version of Windows is work "in the language of my choice" by setting up multi-regional languages.

I'm looking at the "differences" between Ultimate and Professional and (besides BitLocker) the only difference listed is "Work in the language of your choice and switch between any of 35 languages."

WTF? Are they trying to tell me if I want to work in Japanese and English I have to buy Ultimate? Or are they saying I can switch the entire GUI to the language of choice (rather simply be able to type and read in either language)?

I hate it when marketeers write stuff instead of engineers....
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Old 2009-10-27, 13:20   Link #471
Miles Teg
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With the ultimate version you can switch the full interface to another language, that was the same thing with Vista if I remember correctly.
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Old 2009-10-27, 13:25   Link #472
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Miles Teg View Post
With the ultimate version you can switch the full interface to another language, that was the same thing with Vista if I remember correctly.
Ah... just wanted to make sure before I switched from my RC 'Ultimate' to a paid version and then get annoyed. I don't have any particular need for BitLocker and Professional seemed to be just fine for my purposes.
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Old 2009-10-27, 14:22   Link #473
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
I'll say it one more time, do NOT turn the UAC off. People turn the UAC off, then something goes wrong and somehow it's Windows' fault. I don't undestand the UAC psychosis, just let it be in its default stage and pray the idiots that made whatever programs wrongly ask for admin rights will fix their damn programs.
I've used Windows XP Professional with administrative rights on my user account for about, oh, eight years.

Pretty much ever since it came out.

Windows XP doesn't have UAC. It doesn't annoy the holy hell out of me with a stupid little box asking me "HURR ARE U SHUR U WANNA DO DAT" every time I want to make a change to fucking anything.

I have never bricked a Windows XP computer I have owned, ever.

So yeah. UAC is annoying and superfluous for a power user who knows what the hell she's doing. When I'm tweaking with something, I know enough to know when there's a chance that I might turn my computer into a brick. I do not need the OS nagging me about it.
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Old 2009-10-27, 14:46   Link #474
npal
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post

So yeah. UAC is annoying and superfluous for a power user who knows what the hell she's doing. When I'm tweaking with something, I know enough to know when there's a chance that I might turn my computer into a brick. I do not need the OS nagging me about it.
The problem here is that MS designs, and rightly so, the OS for the average joe. That means that a number of us have to live with some stuff that are specifically there more for the average user than for any who is actively involved with a PC more than "mail, chat, browse".

When people who supposedly know their stuff bash the UAC for whatever reason, the average user will go ahead and disable it "cause the people on X forum said it's useless and I can live without it", which is an ill practice based on ill advice because it can't apply to people who don't have the time or will to become "power users". Then those same people tend to bash Windows as a whole for being broken/full of security holes/etcetc, when part of the reason is themselves. I've actually read about people "not needing an AV (or firewall or any other security measure in Windows) cause if you know how to browse around and know what to run, you'll be perfectly safe", when we all know that most people don't even know the basics and many will never move past the basics, which leaves it up to the OS to do whatever it can in an attempt to compromise security with ease of use.

The UAC was meant to address that problem by adding an extra protection layer, a layer that both Linux and OS X have to some extent and it's basically the same thing (not sure about OS X, but I've used a number of Linux distros and that's common practice). Actually, it was my use of Linux distros that helped me appreciate what UAC is meant for. Yeah, its Vista implementation needed work in places (like why must it alert me when all I want to do is check the Performance meter), but that's all. Yeah, all such security measures are a bit of a bother but they are the same as the slight performance hit I'm willing to take when I install an antiV on a Windows system in order to keep it a bit safer.


TL;DR It isn't always about us.
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Old 2009-10-27, 19:01   Link #475
synaesthetic
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Your reasoning would make perfect sense if I were an ordinary end-user. But I'm not, so it's nothing but a major annoyance.

I'm not really upset that UAC exists, because like you say some people would need such a thing to keep them from turning their computer into a brick. But I don't, and for those of us who don't need the OS nagging us every time we want to change the config settings, we can turn it off.

What bothered me more about UAC wasn't that it warned the user when they were going to make a major system-altering change, but that it comes up every time you do anything remotely related to anything. You want to install a game, UAC harasses you. You want to pull up the task manager, UAC harasses you. Et cetera.
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Old 2009-10-27, 19:26   Link #476
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Your reasoning would make perfect sense if I were an ordinary end-user. But I'm not, so it's nothing but a major annoyance.

I'm not really upset that UAC exists, because like you say some people would need such a thing to keep them from turning their computer into a brick. But I don't, and for those of us who don't need the OS nagging us every time we want to change the config settings, we can turn it off.

What bothered me more about UAC wasn't that it warned the user when they were going to make a major system-altering change, but that it comes up every time you do anything remotely related to anything. You want to install a game, UAC harasses you. You want to pull up the task manager, UAC harasses you. Et cetera.
UAC is not as bad in Windows 7 than in Vista because they don't ask you every time when you change the settings/delete files/etc with the default settings. The problem is, turning it off is a great invitation for automatic malware installation which is a problem that infested Windows XP since the default user account run on Administrator when most of the tasks don't require admin privileges.

Also, the changes in Windows 7 allow you to add programs that require elevation to be added to a exclude list so you don't get a prompt when running the programs require elevation on the list.

Anyways, how often anyone install a program... The likely hood of seeing these prompts are low if you don't do this often...

npal: Mac OS X asks for password if you install something that have files needed to be installed in the Library folder (not the home library folder), installing system updates, anything that change the system settings or files or preference panes that are locked such as modifying account settings (this is changed in Snow Leopard, requiring you to enter your password to change network, startup disk, date, security settings).
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Old 2009-10-28, 07:04   Link #477
npal
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Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post

Also, the changes in Windows 7 allow you to add programs that require elevation to be added to a exclude list so you don't get a prompt when running the programs require elevation on the list.
BTW, where's that? Some people were asking whether there's such a feature.
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Old 2009-10-28, 07:30   Link #478
Ending
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That means that a number of us have to live with some stuff that are specifically there more for the average user than for any who is actively involved with a PC more than "mail, chat, browse".
There is no have to. It's just a matter of giving the option. How hard it can be to give a button that says "Disable UAC warnings? y/n/a?" Of course, I'd still crack the system and tweak the settings, because MS still doesn't do that automatically.

Quote:
The problem is, turning it off is a great invitation for automatic malware installation
Only if they can get past the firewall. And even then the user has to keep on clicking on the warnings.

Quote:
a problem that infested Windows XP since the default user account run on Administrator
Makes me kinda wonder if Win7 creates an account called "Average Joe" on default. Does it?
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Old 2009-10-28, 07:36   Link #479
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There is no have to. It's just a matter of giving the option. How hard it can be to give a button that says "Disable UAC warnings? y/n/a?" Of course, I'd still crack the system and tweak the settings, because MS still doesn't do that automatically.
You can turn off UAC in Vista if you want.
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Old 2009-10-28, 10:42   Link #480
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
BTW, where's that? Some people were asking whether there's such a feature.
Oh... My bad... I thought Windows 7 would have that feature, but unfortunately not...

In actuality, there are four settings: Always Notify, Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer, Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (do not dim my desktop), Never Notify... Well, the lowest level is not recommended, but the default level is not as annoying as it's used to be when it notifies you when you change anything with the system. At best, you should atleast have it at Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (do not dim my desktop) since you at least protecting yourself from doing something stupid, but at the same time, some malware can mimick a UAC dialog... which isn't good.

This what the UAC Settings should look like:


Don't mind me... I set mine on high since I'm used to it.
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