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Old 2009-10-29, 05:15   Link #11741
kenjiharima
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Poor Miyamoto seems Gin's not gonna let Sun go after that image. Gin has 2 girls on his list, though the other one gave up, or he made her gave up on him, now we know the reason.
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Old 2009-10-29, 06:23   Link #11742
Dark Mage
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
The cover of vol5 with Sun and Gin on it kinda killed the GinxKurumu idea, really. Just as a reminder and because i love the picture i'l repost it here :

True Gin does/did love Sun but he chose to walk away from her didnt he leaving her behind. So its only Kurumu now I think
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Old 2009-10-29, 07:13   Link #11743
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Only 35?! Keep going man! Wait till you hit the Snow Village Arc and Kurumu's chapter!
Whoa dude.. keep going, you still got a whiles to go to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
There's something deeper... did you finish the chapter?

trust me... Moka really does love him, and I'm talking about both sides (at least two if not more chapters of SII prove this, including this one)
Everyone knows she loves him as much as Outer Moka. The best thing is only us, the readers, know it since she does a good job of hiding it.

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
I think we had this discussion before? a long long time ago? oh well.
Probably did talk about it.. a long, long, long time ago. haha.

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Originally Posted by Full Metal Coast View Post
sweet. thanks for the spoiler. ill read it tonight anyway and hopefully catch up to the rest of you guys in no time.
I'm amazed you're okay with spoilers like that. I hate spoilers with a fiery passion.

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Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
True Gin does/did love Sun but he chose to walk away from her didnt he leaving her behind. So its only Kurumu now I think
That is true. Unless we meet Sun again later and Gin gets some time with her, there is still a chance for him to be with Kurumu.

And Mizore can just tag along with Kurumu & Gin as a friend since you can't set all of the girls up with guys. Gin would be awfully happy
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Old 2009-10-29, 08:06   Link #11744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Now, everyone seems to be confused here. Most harem type endings are seemingly open ended. Those are terrible. What I'm implying is more conclusive. What better way to close the gap than to take multiple wives from different Youkai races. A king on his throne with his 6 queens, 3 on each side.

Right now, I simply prefer to not think about the end without further development. With the way things are now, theres still lots to tell.
The one thing lots of people miss about the whole deal of harem endings is that they're looking in the wrong places were they've been successful as well as monogamous endings.

No manga in my experience, at least the mainstream shounen mangas, will ever really have a good harem ending.

The place to look for those, are of but two sources, one of them being H-manga, chock full of adult language and sex, and the other source are visual novels, chock full of adult language and sex. Both play to the tune of monogamous and polygamous relations, and effectively make them work both ways.

One example in resent memory for me is a game called Lets Meow Meow. That game has many similarities to R+V in that just about the entire female cast are not human...

They're a race of animal-like people along the lines of your typical Cat girls, Dog girls, Rabbit girls, and even a robot girl, and out of all them, there is only one human girl. I also find it kind of funny that the number of potentials in that game closely resembles the harem in R+V, even if one includes Tsukune's cousin Kyou-chan too, at least in numbers.

It could be just me, but I feel that mainstream manga may not be the place to tout polygamous relationships, and so R+V would only touch on that it's not a common thing, and that it's unfeasible for some reason or other.

It is also suppose to be somewhat educational in people's social relationships with one another. But to also illustrate that one can't please everyone.

Tsukune probably is under the impression that if he did choose someone, that person would become the sole target of the wrath of all the other losers that didn't get picked and try and kill them without much thought to how much this outcome would hurt Tsukune in the end.

It's obvious that things are playing to the tune of "the first girl wins" rule, as the theme goes. This is, in my opinion, way too common a theme for many mangas, and it would be refreshing to see an ending where Moka doesn't win, or things fall into place for a harem end being an alternative to a "hollow" victory for whoever would have won anyway.

As I said, things could turn out in any number of ways. And for everyone to fight to the death would be the worst possible outcome of this groups ambitions. Tsukune's role is to PREVENT bloodshed between them, not encourage it.

One example that this situation could be used against Tsukune and company is starkly illustrated in one particular fanfic called Out Of Nightmares, where the villain chooses Tsukune and the group as a medium to bring disaster to the school and the world at large.

Mostly by using the pain and grief that they each suffer should they be belittled by Tsukune himself, each other, or others that painful memories are attached to, or just simply lose him to one of the other girls, and the pain and fear they each feel only feeds the villain's plan to bring about chaos. And Tsukune was chosen to lead all that by being the focus of all that suffering.

It's pretty well told once you get past the really depressing parts of the girls suffering in torturous repeats of their most painful moments. But it does shine some light on one such path leading to the harem end as being the best alternative.

And after giving this a look with the preview feature, I think I've said enough for now.
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Old 2009-10-29, 08:36   Link #11745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
The one thing lots of people miss about the whole deal of harem endings is that they're looking in the wrong places were they've been successful as well as monogamous endings.

No manga in my experience, at least the mainstream shounen mangas, will ever really have a good harem ending.

The place to look for those, are of but two sources, one of them being H-manga, chock full of adult language and sex, and the other source are visual novels, chock full of adult language and sex. Both play to the tune of monogamous and polygamous relations, and effectively make them work both ways.
Yeah.. that there lies in the true benefit of a harem ending. And I'm sure there are plenty of h-manga with harem endings seeing how its every guy's dream to have more than one girl at a time.

Quote:
It's obvious that things are playing to the tune of "the first girl wins" rule, as the theme goes. This is, in my opinion, way too common a theme for many mangas, and it would be refreshing to see an ending where Moka doesn't win, or things fall into place for a harem end being an alternative to a "hollow" victory for whoever would have won anyway.
But there has been chemistry between Moka & Tsukune all along. So, its not like she'll win just because she was the first or the title character, it doesn't feel as cliche as it really is.
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Old 2009-10-29, 08:50   Link #11746
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I think the point is there is that chemistry because she was the first girl.
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Old 2009-10-29, 09:03   Link #11747
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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
I think the point is there is that chemistry because she was the first girl.
Well...that...may be true...but still....

MOKA FOR THE WIN!
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Old 2009-10-29, 09:51   Link #11748
willyvereb
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Inner Moka for the win! She can't share Tsukune with anyone else!
...Not even with Outer...
But somehow I have the feeling the things are going to remain a bit unchanged about the relationships even in the end.
I can't see Mizore giving up her love against anyone...that's the main reason.
BWitches were always on the losing side without any chance and they didn't even try to win much(their declaration in the last chapter shows that). Kurumu might get Gin-senpai, but still Mizore's obession with Tsukune is unrivaled amongst the girls.
I sense another duel between her and Moka if Tsukune ever decides to chose Moka(I mean if the harem disolves).
...
Or we might get a Mizore X Kurumu pairing...actually she's the only one she have some development with besides Tsukune.

It's just that I can't imagine her calmly backing up after Tsukune made his mind.
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Old 2009-10-29, 10:45   Link #11749
Dark Mage
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
IIt's just that I can't imagine her calmly backing up after Tsukune made his mind.
Actually I think Mizore is more sensible and flexible than Kurumu and she will back off if its for Tsukune's happiness. Remember the chapter, where Mizore and Kurumu both made Tsukune act like their boyfriend infront of their mothers? If I remember correctly Kurumu wasnt letting Tsukune go and insisted of keeping her with him regardless of his feelings and how much he wanted to see Moka and Mizore released Tsukune from Kurumu's grip by making a clone of him and then Mizore was the one who said to Kurumu that they needed a reality check and to cool their heads...or something like that. I think Kurumu is slowly but surely falling in love with Gin
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Old 2009-10-29, 11:32   Link #11750
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
I think Kurumu is slowly but surely falling in love with Gin
*has not seen any evidence of this whatsoever anywhere*

Yelling at him for peeping at girls and him grabbing her breasts =/= falling in love with.
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Old 2009-10-29, 11:34   Link #11751
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
Actually I think Mizore is more sensible and flexible than Kurumu and she will back off if its for Tsukune's happiness. Remember the chapter, where Mizore and Kurumu both made Tsukune act like their boyfriend infront of their mothers? If I remember correctly Kurumu wasnt letting Tsukune go and insisted of keeping her with him regardless of his feelings and how much he wanted to see Moka and Mizore released Tsukune from Kurumu's grip by making a clone of him and then Mizore was the one who said to Kurumu that they needed a reality check and to cool their heads...or something like that. I think Kurumu is slowly but surely falling in love with Gin
It's bad to fantasize my friend. Gin hasn't made an appearance in ages, and when he finally did its revealed that he's in love with someone else. The behavior in which Gin displays towards the person he loves is completely different towards other women, and he treats Kurumu just as he would a random chick.
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Old 2009-10-29, 12:31   Link #11752
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
Actually I think Mizore is more sensible and flexible than Kurumu and she will back off if its for Tsukune's happiness. Remember the chapter, where Mizore and Kurumu both made Tsukune act like their boyfriend infront of their mothers? If I remember correctly Kurumu wasnt letting Tsukune go and insisted of keeping her with him regardless of his feelings and how much he wanted to see Moka and Mizore released Tsukune from Kurumu's grip by making a clone of him and then Mizore was the one who said to Kurumu that they needed a reality check and to cool their heads...or something like that. I think Kurumu is slowly but surely falling in love with Gin
Mizore helped Tsukune out by making ice puppets to go in place of Tsukune.

We can also get an end like in Shuffle.
Spoiler for Shuffle:


Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
It's bad to fantasize my friend. Gin hasn't made an appearance in ages, and when he finally did its revealed that he's in love with someone else. The behavior in which Gin displays towards the person he loves is completely different towards other women, and he treats Kurumu just as he would a random chick.
Gin was just in the last chapter.. although it was only one panel, lol. But yeah, should a Gin x Kurumu end happen, it'll have to be after some development.

We still have a long ways to go until the end, so yeah.
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Old 2009-10-29, 13:02   Link #11753
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Well I cant really remember but I didnt say Gin was falling in love with Kurumu but it was rather Kurumu who has shown to some cute expressions for Gin like when she scolded him for not helping Tsukune ans when Gin did come to help you could see a that Kurumu was impressed and Gin was effected by her words, also the time a girl Gin was suspected of murdering girls or something like that but it turned out to be a girl who was in love with Gin and at the end when all was said and done Gin did something which again impressed Kurumu and she had that warm ook on her face once more and there were other two instances which I dont remember but the last of these examples of Kurumu's frowing respect for Gin, was when they were leaving Sun and Kurumu was the one who noticed Gin's feelings and you could tell that it touched her somehow. I might be imagining things though but I really do take those as hints and I do think its a pretty good possibility for them ending up together
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Old 2009-10-29, 13:16   Link #11754
Johnny
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Well until we see Kurumu saying Gin's name in her sleep like she did Tsukune's in chapter 22. It's not even close to being a reality...
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Old 2009-10-29, 15:31   Link #11755
Dark Mage
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Well until we see Kurumu saying Gin's name in her sleep like she did Tsukune's in chapter 22. It's not even close to being a reality...
That's why I said SLOWLY
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Old 2009-10-29, 15:36   Link #11756
Johnny
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I don't even think she's slowly falling for Gin either. She has her radar tuned in to Tsukune 100%. It would take something on Tsukune's part to tune it out to someone else. Like him making a final decision on who he wants to be with. Otherwise I think she'll remain loyal to Tsukune to the end...
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Old 2009-10-29, 17:41   Link #11757
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Okay.. let's put it this way. She doesn't hate Gin and doesn't think ill of him. lol.
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Old 2009-10-29, 18:11   Link #11758
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That would so deteriorate her character and destroy people's feelings who had been build up over the years if Kurumu ever falls for Gin. I'm against this 100% but it's up to the manga-ka to decide in the end.
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Old 2009-10-29, 19:08   Link #11759
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Mizore helped Tsukune out by making ice puppets to go in place of Tsukune.

We can also get an end like in Shuffle.
Spoiler for Shuffle:

.

god I've been sayin that since forever....
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Old 2009-10-29, 19:26   Link #11760
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
That would so deteriorate her character and destroy people's feelings who had been build up over the years if Kurumu ever falls for Gin. I'm against this 100% but it's up to the manga-ka to decide in the end.
Points again to the chapter "Orchid Dreams", I wholeheartedly agree
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