Aoi Bungaku

[golthin]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Yeah, definitely rough watching it. Though you have to wonder..

Spoiler:

Why didn't his wife try to scream? Perhaps she somewhat allowed herself to be taken advantage of? I know that sounds like a sick thing to even question, but the author's own life was about women betraying him.

She was worried that it would cause trouble for Youzou,

Spoiler for final episode:

at least Youzou saved her life when he stopped her. I am glad that the lady with glasses got away with just her heart broken.

[steveotron]

Originally Posted by aulzon

Great background music as well for this series. Can't wait for the OST.

Yeah, the music is great. I found myself watching parts of the episodes again just to listen to the music even thought the scenes accompanying it were not fun to watch (e.g., his wife getting raped).

[drobertbaker]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Yeah, definitely rough watching it. Though you have to wonder..

Spoiler:

Why didn't his wife try to scream? Perhaps she somewhat allowed herself to be taken advantage of? I know that sounds like a sick thing to even question, but the author's own life was about women betraying him.

That was her husband's boss. She was not going to cause him trouble by making a scene. A "sensitive" guy like that would blame her for losing his job and do God knows what.

What women betrayed him, Knucks? It looked to me like HE betrayed all the women in his life and tried to kill half of them to boot.

I am in a bad mood today, but when I watched ep 4 I felt increasing anger, right from when the "navigator" guy showed the author's photo. He even LOOKED like a weasely little puke.

He disgraced his family, destroyed the lives of many nice trusting and loving women who cared for him (for some unknowable reason), and deserted that little kid who saw him as "oto-chan". He was a thief, a murderer, and a user, all the while whining about his poor little self.

I would say that blaming his wife for being raped when she endured it to save him discomfort is the lowest act possible if I hadn't seen all the other crap he pulled.

The sooner he succeeded in killing himself, the better off the world would be. I really wanted to help him stuff more pills into his mewling little ferret face, after I had knocked out all his teeth and ripped off his... Whew!

That said, I did enjoy:

• the live navigator guy
• the navigator saying "meisaku koso aoi" (it takes a masterpiece to be blue)
• pukeboy's latest wife-victim
• the ghost women
• his buddy telling him off
• his buddy's take on the world - The whole world had fallen into less-than-humanness and he was going out to face it head on like a man instead of collapsing into a puddle of slime (The Japanese love their self destruction!)

Great show, so far!

[SuperKnuckles]

^

For sure, Youzo lived on the pretense of others' affection for his outward attitude towards people. Even if it meant that it was apparent he had no real social life and a professional career going (especially harrowing for an artist). I'm guessing that he just had that air of a bachelor going for him.

And as for the women-betraying issue, I'm not really talking about Youzo the character in the book, but the things that happened to the author of the book. His married wife apparently had a sexual fling with his younger brother and that totally took the guy off his knockers and most probably helped influence the book.

While I totally agree Youzo became less and less human and his actual value as a human was really going down to nothingness and possibly detrimental to society (I wouldn't entrust a baby to the guy. lol), it's also tragic all the same. It seems to be a bit of a double whammy since the guy seemingly can't get a break in his public life, he also seems to have trouble believing in himself, and Japan was going insane in terms of its place in the world.

[drobertbaker]

I'm in a better mood today!!

It certainly is a tragic tale of a lost soul.

In my polemic yesterday, I had forgotten about the early sexual abuse scene. I suppose with a modern eye, we would say that this guy exhibits the classical symptoms of childhood sexual abuse: low self esteem, stealing, running away, repeated self injury. And maybe that is the whole story here, creator and creation.

[Mgz]

the eps 2, the room scene gives me "the yellow wallpaper" feeling >.<

eps 4 the music is just so good, new-age and "Secret Garden-ish" , so beautiful yet so sad.

[Hs Vi Germania]

Episode 5... I don't know what to say. The "No Longer Human"-part was that great and played on such a high league, but that now. It's a waste. The should better have continued the NLH-part. I could cry. T___T

[drobertbaker]

Wow! Quite a change of pace.

I would have to call that an experimental style.

It's a subtle psychological horror story and yet lots of jokes and comedy (and blood).

The interesting characters of the ex-wives are developed (including the English speaking one) and then they're all horribly slaughtered. I hoped he wouldn't kill the cute one, and he didn't.

A light opera musical number while he butchers all the women.

Very interesting artistic decisions. And nice pictures like the movie.

When he says "Just like Sakura no Mori no Mankai no Shita", is he referring to an earlier legend of the scary sakura, or reflexively to his own story? EDIT: I got it! It's the movie!

[golthin]

Originally Posted by drobertbaker

Wow! Quite a change of pace.

I would have to call that an experimental style.

It's a subtle psychological horror story and yet lots of jokes and comedy (and blood).

The interesting characters of the ex-wives are developed (including the English speaking one) and then they're all horribly slaughtered. I hoped he wouldn't kill the cute one, and he didn't.

A light opera musical number while he butchers all the women.

Very interesting artistic decisions. And nice pictures like the movie.

When he says "Just like Sakura no Mori no Mankai no Shita", is he referring to an earlier legend of the scary sakura, or reflexively to his own story?

A very hateful character, I hope the brute dies a horrbile death.

[drobertbaker]

A fate worse than.
Now we've had two loser boys in a row.
The women have been interesting.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Yeah, definitely rough watching it. Though you have to wonder..

Spoiler:

Why didn't his wife try to scream? Perhaps she somewhat allowed herself to be taken advantage of? I know that sounds like a sick thing to even question, but the author's own life was about women betraying him.

Spoiler for Novel:

Its actually implied in the novel that she was cheating on him.

I don't like Mad house's interpretation of the book. I have to agree with Sol Falling, it takes away alot of things that talked to me from the original book.

They did somethings wrong which led to alot of misconception to non-book readers:

The paintings that he drew which he referred to as "monster" paintings can be interpreted in two ways; reflections of himself or reflections on his view on humanities. There is never a mention of them being anything other than that unattainable skill he thought he once had. He wasn't plagued with demons or monsters in his mind, but rather of different things.

Yozo did not betray his lovers. In the three occasions of his "betrayals", that of the hostess, the woman who worked in the magazine company and his wife, he never does something to instigate tragedy. He in reality devalues himself and finds him unworthy.

This starts with the first woman, the one who he recalled; the only one he truly loved. Because she exhibited this worthlessness and the ability to be pitied which he desperately needed in life. She was someone lower than him in one way, when he was with her he felt barely human, though human enough. This cause of the double suicide was actually that of them realizing their absolute poverty.Regardless of who wanted it, they both jumped into the sea. He felt guilt that would cause his spiral downwards in the matters of women forever.

His relationship with the second woman was stopped by himself because he was aware that he would cause sufferings to them, and wanted to spare them from it. (He is aware of his deficiencies) He believes his leaving is a lesser evil (This is reinforced by his interactions with the child.)

His wife is a terrible story, and he found himself unable to reconcile her anymore after her incident with the man. He actually wants to forgive her, but she is unable to forgive herself.

Yozo in these situations did not try to actively destroy his relationships, they were almost inevitable because of the circumstances. If anything he wanted them to last, but worked against that because he was unable value himself after the first incident. He was being cruel to himself. He couldn't forgive himself.

The point of No Longer Human is finding sympathy within yourself, it was written in a way that you could think, "He's talking about me!" in some shape or form. I think that if the animation failed to project that message, it failed to project No Longer Human.

I found Aoi Bungaku's rendition of Yozo as emotionless and wangsty. Yozo if anything is ultimately melancholic. He is approachable, lovable can love, but in the end melancholic. He is utterly sad, and is constantly sad because he cannot find someone in which t share that unhappiness in a way that makes him human.

[drobertbaker]

Thoughtful comments.

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

Yozo did not betray his lovers. In the three occasions of his "betrayals", that of the hostess, the woman who worked in the magazine company and his wife, he never does something to instigate tragedy. He in reality devalues himself and finds him unworthy.

I would challenge this point however.

Wimping out on human responsibilities because of low self esteem is betrayal nonetheless. Example - I let you drown because I don't feel capable of saving you.

Life is a struggle and there are no guarantees of success at anything. To refuse to try to help those who depend on you, because you don't think you're good enough, is a betrayal of those relying on your help. Man up and get over it. They NEED you and THEY believe in you! That oftentimes is all that keeps many of us going.

To accept and participate in the social contract and enjoy all its benefits when it's easy and fun and then to demure when it gets harder and a contribution is expected of you is especially cowardly.

He allowed and encouraged the women (and children) to love him and rely on him. At that point, to "try to spare them from the sufferings he may cause them" in fact causes them the suffering from which he claims to be trying to spare them.

This is just not morally acceptable behavior and indeed brands him as No Longer Human. Even he knows this as he follows that spiral down until (if ever) he finds a bottom for himself and faces the long hard struggle we all accept everyday.

[Sol Falling]

I still haven't read the book. But going from the anime and what I know of it, isn't one of it's features precisely Youzo's objectification (in a manner) by women? In speaking of Youzo's 'crime' of encouraging women to love him but not living up to the expectations thus created; in fact, I believe Youzo did no such thing. As demonstrated by (among other things) his group molestation as a child, Youzo seemed to have an unnaturally pretty face. Women became magnetically attracted to his superficial appearance, thoughtlessly projected idealized expectations of humanity and decency onto him, and were betrayed when Youzo failed in his struggle to live up to them. The baseness of the way Youzo is percieved by women is emphasized by the conclusion of the novel, where he, partially invalid, is confined in some remote area by an elderly woman and subsequently, in his own words, 'curiously violated' by her day by day.

A condemnation of Youzo based on allowing women to come to love and rely on him would not, strictly, be invalid. However, as Youzo's encounter with his 'naturally trusting' wife illustrated, their faith was indeed to a degree in spite of his efforts. If a question were asked, between the women and Youzo, 'who inflicted the most suffering upon the other?', I don't think the answer would be necessarily Youzo. Given that 'to live like a human' could have been considered Youzo's dearest wish, I don't think his failure to do so was a matter of cowardice. It may have been, rather, the (to Youzo) unavoidable fact that the reality of who he was could not match up with the idealizations and expectations of the women who fell in love with him.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Yozo often regards himself a kept man.

He tells the reader that women found in him a man who keep a love a secret. One woman explains to him that his depressed puppy-dog like behaviour (and pretty face) made women want to comfort him, or atleast sleep with him. He has already regarded women as different and find them odd and also as "almost completely different creatures".

I think its wrong to say Yozo chicken out of contributing anything to a relationship. Though he was a financial burden for the most part, he had invested all his emotions into it.

The relationship with the old woman is an odd one, he doesn't go further into it other than that they seem to act like spouses.

Yozo is a coward sometimes, he desperately doesn't want to be hurt, but he's somehow he's fine with dying. He understands his "sins" and he understands that he important to the women who loved him and which he "loved" (Apart from the first woman, he never uses the word love again to describe his relationships). He had feelings for them he wanted to settle down, every single time, but he either stopped himself or something else did.

He's cowardly not in afraid of hurting himself, but afraid of hurting others (This goes back to the death of the first woman) he can't forgive himself and is afraid of what he can do to others. He could never "man up" because he found no motivation to do so. He found no way to "man up" he had never seen a person "man up" in his life. All he's known is a descent from rich to rags and the emotional turmoils that dwelt within him and what he describes as the curious behaviours of others (Every one approaches him not with a straight forward method, but one with concealed messages, and unable to know what they meant he is only lead astray).

There has never been a man who told him to deal with it. He has only ever been comforted and in that regard only been pained.

[Dop]

5 and 6 were very strange - almost like some kind of wacky romantic comedy, except for all the murders and the room full of heads, and the fact that the 'harem' got killed off in the first episode!

A complete change of style from the first four episodes.

Wonder what's coming next?

[X207]

youzou's last wife was very creepy. i though the first 4 eps had a weird main character. both youzou and his last wife were even worse than the guy from no longer human.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

The paintings that he drew which he referred to as "monster" paintings can be interpreted in two ways; reflections of himself or reflections on his view on humanities. There is never a mention of them being anything other than that unattainable skill he thought he once had. He wasn't plagued with demons or monsters in his mind, but rather of different things.

Yozo did not betray his lovers. In the three occasions of his "betrayals", that of the hostess, the woman who worked in the magazine company and his wife, he never does something to instigate tragedy. He in reality devalues himself and finds him unworthy.

This starts with the first woman, the one who he recalled; the only one he truly loved. Because she exhibited this worthlessness and the ability to be pitied which he desperately needed in life. She was someone lower than him in one way, when he was with her he felt barely human, though human enough. This cause of the double suicide was actually that of them realizing their absolute poverty.Regardless of who wanted it, they both jumped into the sea. He felt guilt that would cause his spiral downwards in the matters of women forever.

His relationship with the second woman was stopped by himself because he was aware that he would cause sufferings to them, and wanted to spare them from it. (He is aware of his deficiencies) He believes his leaving is a lesser evil (This is reinforced by his interactions with the child.)

His wife is a terrible story, and he found himself unable to reconcile her anymore after her incident with the man. He actually wants to forgive her, but she is unable to forgive herself.

Yozo in these situations did not try to actively destroy his relationships, they were almost inevitable because of the circumstances. If anything he wanted them to last, but worked against that because he was unable value himself after the first incident. He was being cruel to himself. He couldn't forgive himself.

The point of No Longer Human is finding sympathy within yourself, it was written in a way that you could think, "He's talking about me!" in some shape or form. I think that if the animation failed to project that message, it failed to project No Longer Human.

I found Aoi Bungaku's rendition of Yozo as emotionless and wangsty. Yozo if anything is ultimately melancholic. He is approachable, lovable can love, but in the end melancholic. He is utterly sad, and is constantly sad because he cannot find someone in which t share that unhappiness in a way that makes him human.

Um. I think the anime version got that across perfectly fine as I thought. The monster element only took on a more literal approach since it was more visually brought forth, but it seemed pretty clear that he at times both loathed himself and society back and forth. That was mentioned very clearly in the anime in a certain scene. As for his deficiencies, I think they showed that pretty openly in the anime too. I don't see a problem really.. It's not like the women cheated on him. Like you have mentioned, he saw a deficiency in himself and not really worth letting others baby him or bring him up to some social stature that he himself finds to be lacking any meaning considering his own lack of self worth. I guess it is a bit harder to read between the lines when the anime moved much faster.


As for the latest episodes... awesome Kubo Tite artwork, and the whole thing was like a fable/ghost-story. Very surreal.

[monir]

Originally Posted by drobertbaker

That was her husband's boss. She was not going to cause him trouble by making a scene. A "sensitive" guy like that would blame her for losing his job and do God knows what.

What women betrayed him, Knucks? It looked to me like HE betrayed all the women in his life and tried to kill half of them to boot.

I am in a bad mood today, but when I watched ep 4 I felt increasing anger, right from when the "navigator" guy showed the author's photo. He even LOOKED like a weasely little puke.

He disgraced his family, destroyed the lives of many nice trusting and loving women who cared for him (for some unknowable reason), and deserted that little kid who saw him as "oto-chan". He was a thief, a murderer, and a user, all the while whining about his poor little self.

I would say that blaming his wife for being raped when she endured it to save him discomfort is the lowest act possible if I hadn't seen all the other crap he pulled.

The sooner he succeeded in killing himself, the better off the world would be. I really wanted to help him stuff more pills into his mewling little ferret face, after I had knocked out all his teeth and ripped off his... Whew!

That said, I did enjoy:

• the live navigator guy
• the navigator saying "meisaku koso aoi" (it takes a masterpiece to be blue)
• pukeboy's latest wife-victim
• the ghost women
• his buddy telling him off
• his buddy's take on the world - The whole world had fallen into less-than-humanness and he was going out to face it head on like a man instead of collapsing into a puddle of slime (The Japanese love their self destruction!)

Great show, so far!

I liked reading this post of yours! It's exactly how the audience supposed to feel about his character. He has been a feeble being through out his entire life. The one woman he truly loved, he couldn't even die with her, let alone give her the ray of hope to live on. And no one is more aware than himself about how much of a pathetic existence he has maintained. So, he despaired and persisted on living through self-inflicted misery till the inevitable.

This show is not for the feint of heart. For me the mediocrity of this season is saved by this show. It is something different and I thank everyone involved for daring to make these stories happen in an anime format. It's a tremendous task to adapt classic in any medium to begin with, let alone in anime format which is generally looked down upon. Time to start the new arc in episode 5.

[bluedemon]

I loved the second arc of this series. It was simultaneously bright and cheery while dark and gruesome. I was confused by the ending a bit.

Spoiler for Episode 6:

What really happened between him and the demon?

I'm enjoying pondering it.

[SuperKnuckles]

I'm guessing that the entirety of the story of the second arc is meant to be just a wild fairytale type story that could be interpreted a number of ways. Maybe she really was a demon. Maybe it's just that mountain bear man going insane. I wouldn't dare assume what the entire point of that arc was about. Other than being some weird fable. Probably about the bewitching nature of women.