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Old 2009-11-03, 14:42   Link #21981
Meatrose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Right...

...

What are we arguing again?
Nothing, which is why I didn't quote you. I agreed saying that he did use it on her.
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Old 2009-11-03, 16:38   Link #21982
Bionicman
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
she abandoned him on kamine island
after learning that he had betrayed HER, from the start, and was only using her, and all her friends for his own goals
as well as learning that he has mind control powers that he may or may not have used on her
after he up and ditched the entire army in the middle of a critical battle that would decide the fate of japan to go chase after his sister
and after he had just threatened to kill both suzaku AND her (for no reason) with a bomb

and even then, she starts out wanting to help him until suzaku again throws all those facts in her face
I don't remember all the details, but when I first saw that scene, I thought it might be an 'Idiot Ball' moment for Lelouch, and your description furthers that thought. Lelouch could have told her he didn't manipulate her (see the discussion in the last few posts), he could have bluffed that Suzaku was lying about his motivations (Suzaku wasn't lying, but who would Kallen believe?), he could have said that what he was doing was important to the battle and that he would return immediately, and so on. For a guy who was so willing to lie, he picked a bad moment to not lie. It seemed like Lelouch was suffering from the needs of the plot (if I remember correctly, Kallen's 'abandonment' wasn't confirmed/set in stone until R2). What did you think?
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Old 2009-11-03, 17:14   Link #21983
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Lelouch constantly made retarded choices based whatever the writers thought would cause him more angst and drama, or a more insane plot twists, down the line rather than sound tactical choices. This was especially apparent in R2 when "angstly tragic Lelouch" essentially took over the whole show with all characters or sideplots not related his wangst thrown out.

The biggest would have to have been in China. He figures out Xingke's plans for rebellion and uses to to his advantage to get Xingke and China on his side but rather than actually talking to Xingke about it in advance and plotting a way to join their forces ahead of time or at least get Xingke to know they are on the same page. Instead he prances around mwahahaing kidnaps the Empress and antagonizes Xingke's forces into picking a fight which results in Kallen's capture and wasting of forces fighting a pointless battle against Xingke's all so they could make Zero look cool and provide more oppurtunities for angst later on.

Yeah it all worked out in the end for the moment, but it cost Lelouch and important emotional anchor that could have been helpful in keeping him sane during the Shirley V.V. arc.

Lelouch's insistance on hamming it up as Zero all the time even when it was not necessery caused him tons of problems later on.
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Old 2009-11-03, 17:27   Link #21984
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Like "Death note" anime, to build more episodes, they degenerated that storyboard too.

Code Geass had the same destiny, ruined by his same success, the anime won the prize like the best tv-anime, but thanks the first season, to give a prize for the second season was like a blasphemy.
R2 had good ideas, but they written the script and all the other stuff very badly.

To fix something about the characters relationship after that chaos wasn't easy, in fact I thought a sincere Lelouch was the best weapon to give the best confusion inside his old allies and Kallen too.

If a people lie always, when at last he says the truth, the result can be more destructive.

At last, Kallen's heart was like pierced by tens of nails, she was dead inside, but to know the real truth about Lelouch's past, it gived her the strenght and the will to forgive Lelouch and protect him.

And to become a mum gived her the life experience to understand totally her mother choices, Kallen forgive her mother when she killed herself to stop the daughter battle.

Like the fact Kallen couldn't to be a 18 years old girl for all the life, the people grow physically and mentally.

Last edited by Bonzo; 2009-11-03 at 17:45.
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Old 2009-11-04, 03:32   Link #21985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionicman View Post
I don't remember all the details, but when I first saw that scene, I thought it might be an 'Idiot Ball' moment for Lelouch, and your description furthers that thought. Lelouch could have told her he didn't manipulate her (see the discussion in the last few posts), he could have bluffed that Suzaku was lying about his motivations (Suzaku wasn't lying, but who would Kallen believe?), he could have said that what he was doing was important to the battle and that he would return immediately, and so on. For a guy who was so willing to lie, he picked a bad moment to not lie. It seemed like Lelouch was suffering from the needs of the plot (if I remember correctly, Kallen's 'abandonment' wasn't confirmed/set in stone until R2). What did you think?
Actually he said that on purpose.
It was written in the DVD box if I remember well, that Lelouch choose to hurt her at this moment so she wouldn't blame herself.

So...even if it can sound fun it was, once again and already (exactly what he did in Turn 19 ) an act of kindness.
But Lelouch being Lelouch, his kindness can only be shown through giant middle fingers so...yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo
At last, Kallen's heart was like pierced by tens of nails, she was dead inside, but to know the real truth about Lelouch's past, it gived her the strenght and the will to forgive Lelouch and protect him.

And to become a mum gived her the life experience to understand totally her mother choices, Kallen forgive her mother when she killed herself to stop the daughter battle.

Like the fact Kallen couldn't to be a 18 years old girl for all the life, the people grow physically and mentally.
Yeah ok but that is your fanstory, not the canon one. We can hardsly argue about canon and your stories since they are like, two different things. Right now we are talking about CG R2, not your remake so...well dunno, it's weird seeing this meli melo between a fanwork and the canon storyline.

Cause great or not that was canon and change or not change that's the one and only R2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose
2) Kallen got her Geass immunity early on. Not that he ever got to a point where he had any reason to Geass her after that.
This is where Turn 7 is poping in my mind xD
Those convo from the staff in this radio show where they said that Had Lelouch never geassed her before, he would have in Turn 7 leading to a R-rated scene...I wonder if he would have really dare do that :'P
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Old 2009-11-04, 03:42   Link #21986
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I like to open the fantasy about how can evolve a character at despite of the situations.

Canon, fanservice, etc..
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Old 2009-11-04, 03:43   Link #21987
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but that alone would not be enough for an R-rated scene
lelouch would have also had to use his geass on sunrise's management stuff to get them to approve of it

as for what you said about the DVD box thing
what does it mean "Lelouch choose to hurt her at this moment so she wouldn't blame herself."
why ?
why would he do that ?
i just dont think i get what you mean
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Old 2009-11-04, 03:59   Link #21988
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@ Bonzo : Yeah but no. We can use some "what if" script but honest, discussion for fanwors are meant to go in proper threads cause in the end here, it's hard to follow the convo with all of that.

Or people might as well bring M. Stalker fic "The Game of the King" in the "Lelouch is alive debate" and I could bring Yvj's fic in the "Lelouch was in love with Kallen debate".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
but that alone would not be enough for an R-rated scene
lelouch would have also had to use his geass on sunrise's management stuff to get them to approve of it

as for what you said about the DVD box thing
what does it mean "Lelouch choose to hurt her at this moment so she wouldn't blame herself."
why ?
why would he do that ?
i just dont think i get what you mean
Hey, Sunrise didn't have any problem in including a R-Rated scene between Kira ands Fllay. It was subtext at first, then in special edition, we even saw EVERYTHING (Oh my sister had nightmares about that. Her Lacus fanheart suffered a lot while I was in awe. Good old times.) so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have mind thgis much.

Cause well if fanservice sells. Sex too :'P

About the DVD thing it was something Koshimizu said in the past. That his words in Kaminejima, were meant so that she would put the blame, for her actions, on him.

Seems simple to understand. He was playing the big bad bastard at this very moment and it seems he was doing so for her sake as well.
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Old 2009-11-04, 05:30   Link #21989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
@ Bonzo : Yeah but no. We can use some "what if" script but honest, discussion for fanwors are meant to go in proper threads cause in the end here, it's hard to follow the convo with all of that.

You right, but we haven't a thread about to speak of fanart/doujinshi comics.
I tried to ask about it, but not a agreedment about it.
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Old 2009-11-04, 05:34   Link #21990
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isnt that what the FANFIC thread is for ?
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:06   Link #21991
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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
This is where Turn 7 is poping in my mind xD
Those convo from the staff in this radio show where they said that Had Lelouch never geassed her before, he would have in Turn 7 leading to a R-rated scene...I wonder if he would have really dare do that :'P
Hehe, yeah but I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything like that in the end. I saw that comment as part joke and part stressing the point that Lelouch wasn't after a mere kiss at that point. Anyhow, Geassing her into sleeping with him would be like raping her. He wouldn't rape one of his "three pillars".

I bet there's a bunch of doujinshi out there that makes use of that particular idea though.
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:10   Link #21992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
isnt that what the FANFIC thread is for ?
The fanfiction thread is just for script, novel, etc...a comic is another kind of work.
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:17   Link #21993
bladeofdarkness
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Hehe, yeah but I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything like that in the end. I saw that comment as part joke and part stressing the point that Lelouch wasn't after a mere kiss at that point. Anyhow, Geassing her into sleeping with him would be like raping her. He wouldn't rape one of his "three pillars".

I bet there's a bunch of doujinshi out there that makes use of that particular idea though.
he didnt realize she was one of his pillers at that point
he was still too deep into his nunnaly-centric world view at that time

though i still kinda find it hard he'd stoop that low
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:19   Link #21994
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The fanfiction thread is just for script, novel, etc...a comic is another kind of work.
Comics/manga are, like any novel or script, works of fiction. A fanfic is a work of fiction written by a fan of the original work rather than by the original author, so I can't see how a fanfiction thread would only be for scripts and novels.

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he didnt realize she was one of his pillers at that point
he was still too deep into his nunnaly-centric world view at that time

though i still kinda find it hard he'd stoop that low
Hehe, I was about to edit the post but I didn't. Sure, he most certainly didn't consider her one of his three pillars at that point or he would not have been such an ass to her, but she was still someone who was about to, along with Suzaku, join Nunnally (who prior to that was his only pillar) at his highest tier of importance. There's no way to go from "someone I might put a have-sex-with-me Geass on" to "one of my three pillars" that fast. It's not like they spent an awful lot of time together after Turn 07 given the fact she was kidnapped. I see that scene as one of his major wake-up calls concerning Kallen. Turn 10 would be the next.
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:27   Link #21995
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Comics/manga are, like any novel or script, works of fiction. A fanfic is a work of fiction written by a fan of the original work rather than by the original author, so I can't see how a fanfiction thread would only be for scripts and novels.
That time the admin told me to put it in the forum generic thread "fan creations" then was like a "no".
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Old 2009-11-04, 07:33   Link #21996
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That time the admin told me to put it in the forum generic thread "fan creations" then was like a "no".
I didn't know about that to be honest.
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Old 2009-11-04, 08:12   Link #21997
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Hehe, I was about to edit the post but I didn't. Sure, he most certainly didn't consider her one of his three pillars at that point or he would not have been such an ass to her, but she was still someone who was about to, along with Suzaku, join Nunnally (who prior to that was his only pillar) at his highest tier of importance. There's no way to go from "someone I might put a have-sex-with-me Geass on" to "one of my three pillars" that fast. It's not like they spent an awful lot of time together after Turn 07 given the fact she was kidnapped. I see that scene as one of his major wake-up calls concerning Kallen. Turn 10 would be the next.
Well, it is true that if the person is gone for a long time, you start to reconsider your thoughts about that person...
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Old 2009-11-04, 10:48   Link #21998
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He'd been going insane at that time, having just abused his Geass on the Refrain dealers and then laughed like a maniac. There's no telling what he might have done next.
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Old 2009-11-04, 11:16   Link #21999
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Hehe, yeah but I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything like that in the end. I saw that comment as part joke and part stressing the point that Lelouch wasn't after a mere kiss at that point. Anyhow, Geassing her into sleeping with him would be like raping her. He wouldn't rape one of his "three pillars".

I bet there's a bunch of doujinshi out there that makes use of that particular idea though.
That would have been a rape no doubt about it. But still, since she wasn't yet one of those "pillars", just for the angst I would have like to see that.

*ashamed*

Actually, had he geassed her, in his state I really wonder what he would have done. It's not like if the girl had said yes (Had Kallen let him have his way with her of her own will, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any problem going on and on ), he would have been with a person willing to do whatever he wants to do just because he asked for it.

Now, like Azul said, the guy was freaking insane, his way to geass those dealers was crazy, and I have this feeling that he would have took advantage ok a geassed Kallen.

Maybe not up to the point of taking her virginity but there might have been a beginning, before the guy wake up.

Ahh endless possibilities.

Now one might argue that Kallen won this "pillar" place because of the slap she gave him. This slap lead them to their others interactions after all (like Turn 9) while before that, it was only teasing on both part (or more like on Lelouch's part. And certainly attraction on each part but in DENIAL LAND ) so...yeah, he might have crossed the line after all. Or not.
But he sure had the idea in mind.
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Old 2009-11-06, 14:03   Link #22000
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Kallen made everything she could and more...but nothing can change the fate (or the script):

Spoiler for Guren's death:
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