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Old 2009-11-04, 19:54   Link #61
'Pryde
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when white beard dies I think most likely the crew will be disbanded or maybe Marco or ace will take over the crew. Or in another case the crew might want to go down fighting along side him, although i don't see that happening tho.
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:09   Link #62
Fipskuul
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Until now, what Luffy had done have helped the people in a good way. And the more he had done the helping, the more he had seen his bounty grow. The same can be said for many others, possibly including Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard, etc. WG does not want another force helping people without putting any kind of restriction on them.

So, the good of the people is not what they seek, what they seek is authority and force to bind people with. In that aspect, what they did exactly showed what they really are. They never changed, and they are exactly likely the pirates, but pirates with legal rights. If that is what you think, then what you see them doing is perfectly fine, and no problem.

However, if you try to portray them as the good side, whereas the pirates as the bad side, which is the impression the majority of the people around the world carries, then this is the right time to call them as badly as possible, in the way they really deserve, so that it can reach the heads of even the most ignorant. Which is a daily routine for the revolutionaries.
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:23   Link #63
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The Marines work for the WG, and the WG likes to keep pirate as pets (called the Shichibukai)...so why couldn't the WG make such a deal with Whitebeard?

You're forgetting that the government literally DOES keep pirates as pets. Remember the World Nobles....?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Some of you are being a little hypocritical here. The marines are living in a world infested with devious pirates who play by no rules/fairness, and yet you guys accuse the marines as being treacherous, cheap bastards? Pirates can get away with this kind of behaviour and the marines can't? Come on now. It's just like the saying, "fight fire with fire." This was by no means a cheap shot.



Yep, that's the truth. Heck, Doflamingo's speech from a few chapters back even comes to mind here, about how only those who rise to the top can decide what's "good" or "evil". So basically, "Might makes Right".




Anyway, I also have to say that I'm curious as to why Sengoku chose Akainu of all people to talk to Squado. Why Akainu, the admiral who holds the most contempt for pirates? A man who spoke of destroying Luffy as soon as he laid eyes on him, and is more than willing to sacrifice innocent lives for "the greater good"? One would think that it would make more sense to have one of the Shichibukai (who are pirates themselves) get in contact with Squado since Akainu seems more of the type to nuke a pirate to ashes before he'd even consider talking to one. Plus, the fact that he managed to convince Squado to betray Whitebeard at all suggests to me that he may have a deeper understanding of pirates' minds than I initially thought. Perhaps..... he was once a pirate himself? I think that would actually make for a pretty interesting twist, seeing as we already have former marine-turned-pirates like Drake. I mean, I know that Coby was technically a pirate before he became a marine, but he was forced into becoming one by Alvida. Sakazuki, on the other hand, may be a completely different case.......
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:32   Link #64
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
However, if you try to portray them as the good side, whereas the pirates as the bad side, which is the impression the majority of the people around the world carries, then this is the right time to call them as badly as possible, in the way they really deserve, so that it can reach the heads of even the most ignorant. Which is a daily routine for the revolutionaries.
That's fine. My point is that people shouldn't vilify the marines when the pirates are just as guilty of doing such things, if not worse.
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:32   Link #65
longnose-kun
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Perhaps..... he was once a pirate himself? I think that would actually make for a pretty interesting twist, seeing as we already have former marine-turned-pirates like Drake. I mean, I know that Coby was technically a pirate before he became a marine, but he was forced into becoming one by Alvida. Sakazuki, on the other hand, may be a completely different case.......
Then why wouldn't Akainu be a shichibukai. I mean if he was a pirate, he could be a loyal following one like Kuma, or a pirate hating pirate like Jimbe. Also, weren't the mariens going to not let Coby into the mariens if it wasn't for what Luffy and Zoro did, and he was forced to be a pirate. I don't know what would happen if a pirate walked into a marine base, and asked to me a marine. It just doesn't seem right to me. He could have studied pirate psychology, instead of actually being a pirate.
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:54   Link #66
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Hey marvelB. We know that Whitebeard's death is inevitable, so when that time comes, how would you like it if Moria steals his corpse and implants a shadow into it ? A zombie of that caliber would certainly be a great weapon added to his arsenal. Old age would also no longer be a hindrance/impediment to the king of the seas, for immortality would absolve him of that weakness. After this newest acquisition, Moria would begin his celebration with a big "Kishishishishi!!"
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Old 2009-11-04, 21:04   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
You're forgetting that the government literally DOES keep pirates as pets. Remember the World Nobles....?
Pirates? They have the right to keep everyone other than themselves as pets. So, no difference between a 3 year old kid from a poor land, an unknown marine from somewhere else, and a pirate with a 200 million bounty on his head....The WG may even ignore the action of a noble if he/she succeeds in making a Vice Admiral as a pet.

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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Anyway, I also have to say that I'm curious as to why Sengoku chose Akainu of all people to talk to Squado. Why Akainu, the admiral who holds the most contempt for pirates?
Because he may be one of the most loyal dogs of the WG, hence, capable of ignoring his personal preferences more than any other if given the order to do so.
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Old 2009-11-04, 21:09   Link #68
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Hey marvelB. We know that Whitebeard's death is inevitable, so when that time comes, how would you like it if Moria steals his corpse and implants a shadow into it ? A zombie of that caliber would certainly be a great weapon added to his arsenal. Old age would also no longer be a hindrance/impediment to the king of the seas, for immortality would absolve him of that weakness. After this newest acquisition, Moria would begin his celebration with a big "Kishishishishi!!"

That would be the most awesome twist, EVER. I can actually imagine Luffy having a matchup against zombie Whitebeard later in the series, too. Though, I wonder if Moria would actually be able to find the proper shadow to accommodate such a legendary person's corpse.....?




Quote:
Originally Posted by longnose-kun View Post
Then why wouldn't Akainu be a shichibukai. I mean if he was a pirate, he could be a loyal following one like Kuma, or a pirate hating pirate like Jimbe. Also, weren't the mariens going to not let Coby into the mariens if it wasn't for what Luffy and Zoro did, and he was forced to be a pirate. I don't know what would happen if a pirate walked into a marine base, and asked to me a marine. It just doesn't seem right to me. He could have studied pirate psychology, instead of actually being a pirate.



Of course, my previous post was just me voicing out one of my crazy theories again, but I still think I make a good point when I ask why Sengoku chose Akainu of all people to talk to Squado. If anything, Aokiji would have been a better choice since he's the only admiral who was shown to have sympathy towards criminals. I can understand to an extent why Sengoku wouldn't choose the Shichibukai, since they're practically dogs without leashes. But I still think they would have been the best candidates to negotiate with Squado, since they themselves are pirates (and would therefore would understand how a fellow pirate's mind works). I guess I'm just intrigued by Sengoku's choice, that's all......




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Because he may be one of the most loyal dogs of the WG, hence, capable of ignoring his personal preferences more than any other if given the order to do so.


I think Kizaru fits that description better than Akainu does, IMO. I mean, it's not like anyone actually ordered Akainu to blast away those civilians in Ohara or those runaway soldiers in Marineford.....
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Old 2009-11-04, 21:25   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I think Kizaru fits that description better than Akainu does, IMO. I mean, it's not like anyone actually ordered Akainu to blast away those civilians in Ohara or those runaway soldiers in Marineford.....
I think Kizaru and Aokiji are the ones that would lose to their emotions, when it is necessary for them to follow the WG orders.
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Old 2009-11-04, 21:30   Link #70
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@MarvelB
Just a bit of speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if Sengoku and Akainu thought of the plan, additionally I'm fairly certain that this part of the plan may not of been conceived before the pirates arrived otherwise the marines would have had to know that Squad was coming along with WB before WB arrived with the NW captains. If this is the case I would guess that Akainu was the Admiral to conceive the plan with Sengoku since Akainu was the only admiral who remained near to the execution stand as planned immediately after the pirates arrived, so that could've been why he helped develop the plan and was chosen to execute it.
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Old 2009-11-04, 21:55   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
That's fine. My point is that people shouldn't vilify the marines when the pirates are just as guilty of doing such things, if not worse.
because people expect better from the governments. It's similar to how people expect the police to "play by the rules" even if they are arresting a murderer.

Or I guess another way to see it is that if the marines do what the pirates do, what is the difference apart from perhaps the army size? I'm sure there are pirates that go around claiming to dole out their version of "justice" too.
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Old 2009-11-04, 22:38   Link #72
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Some of you are being a little hypocritical here. The marines are living in a world infested with devious pirates who play by no rules/fairness, and yet you guys accuse the marines as being treacherous, cheap bastards? Pirates can get away with this kind of behaviour and the marines can't? Come on now. It's just like the saying, "fight fire with fire." This was by no means a cheap shot.
Oh please don't give me that. If you call yourself the good guys you gotta live and act by a higher standard then the people you call the bad guys otherwise what are you condemning them for? For doing the same things you do? It is not us who's being hypocritical, its' the marines. Fact of the matter is they are just as corrupt as the pirates are, but they pretend like there good guys because they are "looking out for the people." Who was it that looked out for Merman Island, who saved Alabasta from Crocodile, who freed all of East blue from both Naval and pirate corruption, pirates did that. On the flipside of things the Marines indiscriminately slaughtered millions of innocent people in Ohara, mercilessily tortured pirates of both petty and major crimes just for referring to themselves as a pirate, and turned a blind eye to human slavery to keep a bunch spoiled brats happy.
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Last edited by cheese4u; 2009-11-04 at 22:49.
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Old 2009-11-04, 22:46   Link #73
rob lucci
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white beard zombie hehehe

i think jimbei will be the one to stop white beard zombie...
since he have a great debt to him...
he will never allow anyone to disrespect white beard corpse.

if WB crew disbanned, every WB division commander will gather their own division to make a new pirate crew just like red hair and buggy...

marco will be an old man a coating engineer hahaha.
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Old 2009-11-04, 22:50   Link #74
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
That would be the most awesome twist, EVER. I can actually imagine Luffy having a matchup against zombie Whitebeard later in the series, too. Though, I wonder if Moria would actually be able to find the proper shadow to accommodate such a legendary person's corpse.....?
There are plenty of silver medalists out there whose shadows would be more than sufficient for that task .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisoka?? View Post
because people expect better from the governments. It's similar to how people expect the police to "play by the rules" even if they are arresting a murderer.

Or I guess another way to see it is that if the marines do what the pirates do, what is the difference apart from perhaps the army size? I'm sure there are pirates that go around claiming to dole out their version of "justice" too.
It's all about maintaining a righteous image for the public. This is the reason why Sengoku wanted the broadcast to be stopped, so that the people wouldn't see the deceitful/cruel nature of the marines. Even though the marines may resort to extreme measures for the purpose of capturing/eliminating pirates, they still ultimately serve as protectors of the innocents. Some of their actions are questionable, but overall they are not as bad as pirates.
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Old 2009-11-04, 23:17   Link #75
james0246
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
That would be the most awesome twist, EVER. I can actually imagine Luffy having a matchup against zombie Whitebeard later in the series, too. Though, I wonder if Moria would actually be able to find the proper shadow to accommodate such a legendary person's corpse.....?
Now we have an excuse for Shiki to appear...he will be Whitebeard's shadow....
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Old 2009-11-04, 23:57   Link #76
marvelB
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Now we have an excuse for Shiki to appear...he will be Whitebeard's shadow....

Funny how I came to that exact same conclusion before I saw your post. Yeah, methinks that Gold Lion's shadow would be quite suitable, indeed (if he's alive in the manga timeline, that is)......



That reminds me: I wonder if Moria will decide to salvage Fisher Tiger's corpse, as well? He's also something of a legendary figure, and I'd bet ol' Gecko would be more than delighted to add him to his zombie army, as well......
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Old 2009-11-05, 00:22   Link #77
Jaieni
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http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Jango

^ Former pirate turned marine.
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Old 2009-11-05, 00:58   Link #78
marvelB
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....I can't believe I forgot to mention Jango before. And he's one of my favorite characters too, for cryin' out loud!




Uh.... so anyway, even though the damage was done, I hope we see Squado kick some marine ass to redeem himself for his foolish act. It's not like sulking is going to help when you're in the middle of a war, anyway.....
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Old 2009-11-05, 00:59   Link #79
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
There are plenty of silver medalists out there whose shadows would be more than sufficient for that task .



It's all about maintaining a righteous image for the public. This is the reason why Sengoku wanted the broadcast to be stopped, so that the people wouldn't see the deceitful/cruel nature of the marines. Even though the marines may resort to extreme measures for the purpose of capturing/eliminating pirates, they still ultimately serve as protectors of the innocents. Some of their actions are questionable, but overall they are not as bad as pirates.
Nothing in the manga so far to me show the marines are better than the pirates in anyway .

The marines is group that has gotten to big and now try to do what ever they want in name of justice or just cause they can while looking out for there self.

I think the reason why oda has show us time and time again how corrupt they are is show you why they have the revolutionaries.
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Old 2009-11-05, 01:12   Link #80
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OP never dissapoints me or at least almost never. Especially the last years Oda's been on one hell of a roll. Didn't have a clue how he'd resolve Squad's betrayal but this reason is satisfactory enough for me. His hate for Roger really did blind his judgement, Sengoku played that man as a fool. Truly astounding, last week cliffhanger left me pissed and I was ready to crucify him but now I can only feel sorry for him. And those pictures just were to awesome.

Then add that stupid Buggy finally gets owned which hopefully results in not seeing to much of him anymore this war and this chapter can't get any better. But I do think he has a big chance to accompany Luffy after this war for the role Greg mentioned at AP and that Marvelb refered to here but Greg did say enemy boss character and Buggy seems way more possible then Croc while Hancock didn't fight Luffy which hardly made her a real enemy boss character. But Buggy has to reunite with his crew one way and reuniting with Rayleigh would be one hell of a scene.


And I have to join the side of the guys who find this one hell of a cheap move of the WG, a magnificent well played move but still cheap. Only cements further the image how rotten the WG truly is. As the so called good guys you do expect them to be more honorable but after 563 chapters this hardly surprises me cause it perfectly fits them. And I don't need to compare them to some dirty pirates like take a Bellamy, Buggy, Croc to justify their behavior cause dirty tactics remain cheap whether you're the so called good guys or not.
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