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Old 2009-10-25, 01:40   Link #1021
Galeontanilla
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Is it just me or is the Greed in Lin a pretty cool dude?

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The chimera apologizes for not being able to stop Pride and Greed pretty much says it's okay, go tend to your wounds. I'm pretty sure Lin lost control of the body before that.

Last edited by Skyfall; 2009-10-27 at 02:32.
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Old 2009-10-25, 03:31   Link #1022
Sannom
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Greed has always been a "cool" guy. He is greedy as hell, and he considers than the best way to keep his "live" possessions is to be nice to them. He is also ready to negociate when he's got nothing to lose. Give informations in exchange of something else is something he's willing to do because he can't "lose" information.

Greed is the opposite of the misguided villain, who does bad things but intend well. Greed does good things but out of absolutely selfish intents.
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Old 2009-11-02, 05:14   Link #1023
mechalord
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Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
I certainly wouldn't rank Hohenheim at the top though, he's definitely a genius despite his humble beginnings but the whole immortality was done by Father and Hohenheim really just picked up the scraps left from Father. We're given the impression that he is some super genius throughout the series but his backhistory kinda explains that away. His quick domination by Father after Father got serious shows who still is the master(although he did do better than anyone before him).

In regards to Mustang, we haven't really seen him put into a really intellectually spot. The only time I can think of was the switcharoo with Maria Ross. A good way of looking at it is that Mustang and Ed are on parallel paths. Ed is trying to deal with the intellectual side of Father while Mustang is dealing with the physical side(mainly running the country and taking control away from Bradley).

To be fair though, no regular alchemist would even be a State Alchemist due to the rigorous testing.

About Al, I would say he's the weakest alchemist of the 5 as it seems he got the physical talent over the alchemist skills in the family. Al is hard to compare as he is pretty much in the shadows against his brother who is a prodigy. However we have seen him pull some clever stuff out of his metal head such as his fight with Pride.
Al is a prodigy too. Al's body got chosen as a sacrifice because of the mass required to recreate their mother. Ed didn't walk unscathed either, he lost one of his limbs. He gave up another to save his brother. Two 50-80 pound kids trying to recreate a 100+ pound woman. One body had to go.

Izumi losts some internal organs that added up to the mass of her baby. She lost about 5-8 pounds of organ tissue.

Their offering of the raw materials that compose a body weren't enough, the process requires flesh, I believe.

Al will come out of the void, the most powerful alchemist known. His body has been living in the void, staring at the gates symbols for years. He will come out of the gate, knowing EVERYTHING. He may be the Deus Ex Machina that defeats Father, you know.

Al is not the weakest, he is just younger than Ed and had his body taken by the roll of a die.
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Old 2009-11-02, 08:31   Link #1024
wandering-dreamer
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
A
Al will come out of the void, the most powerful alchemist known. His body has been living in the void, staring at the gates symbols for years. He will come out of the gate, knowing EVERYTHING. He may be the Deus Ex Machina that defeats Father, you know.
That would be pretty sweet and nicely fitting actually. Al's seen more of the truth than any person but that never seems to have made a difference in his alchemy, maybe it will now.
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Old 2009-11-02, 12:43   Link #1025
orangejuicetang
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Al is a prodigy too. Al's body got chosen as a sacrifice because of the mass required to recreate their mother. Ed didn't walk unscathed either, he lost one of his limbs. He gave up another to save his brother. Two 50-80 pound kids trying to recreate a 100+ pound woman. One body had to go.

Izumi losts some internal organs that added up to the mass of her baby. She lost about 5-8 pounds of organ tissue.

Their offering of the raw materials that compose a body weren't enough, the process requires flesh, I believe.
First off, that's not how the gate works. He didn't lose his body because the body of their mother needed more mass, he lost his body because that was the toll he paid to go through the gate. I'm pretty sure that Ed had already calculated the weight of their mother into account when getting the ingredients. Besides, Ed lost an arm to bring Al's soul back in the form of a blood seal. Going by your logic, that means that this blood seal would have as much mass as an arm. Izumi lost her uterus and a portion of her small intestine if I remember correctly. I'm not actually sure how much this weighs, but I kinda doubt it would be equal to the mass of her baby. Also going by your example, both Hohenheim and Father would be quite a bit heavier than a normal person, since quite a few people lost their bodies to them as they went through the gate as a toll. But it's extremely hard to believe that Hohenheim weighs as much as 500,000 people or however many people he has inside him.
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Old 2009-11-03, 12:39   Link #1026
mechalord
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
First off, that's not how the gate works. He didn't lose his body because the body of their mother needed more mass, he lost his body because that was the toll he paid to go through the gate. I'm pretty sure that Ed had already calculated the weight of their mother into account when getting the ingredients. Besides, Ed lost an arm to bring Al's soul back in the form of a blood seal. Going by your logic, that means that this blood seal would have as much mass as an arm. Izumi lost her uterus and a portion of her small intestine if I remember correctly. I'm not actually sure how much this weighs, but I kinda doubt it would be equal to the mass of her baby. Also going by your example, both Hohenheim and Father would be quite a bit heavier than a normal person, since quite a few people lost their bodies to them as they went through the gate as a toll. But it's extremely hard to believe that Hohenheim weighs as much as 500,000 people or however many people he has inside him.
Is it a toll? Ed went through the gate a second time and it didn't cost him anything. I think that creating the body requires the raw material but requires part of a body to animate it(make it alive, give it a new soul). H. To get out of Gluttony, he performed human transmutation but the bodies he recreated on the other side were same that were inside Gluttony and possessed the same souls. He didn't have to give up anything.

Hohenheim and Father are special creatures. They have powers beyond those of homunculi. Father was the original humunculus, he was created from Hohenheim when he was mortal. They both killed off Xerxes, went through the gate, and remerged with new immortal and super powerful bodies.

And if you want to talk about mass. Envy, who is made out of Father, is extremely massive. Anyhow, Father seems to violate the laws of science, physics, and alchemy. He performed alchemy without any special gestures or symbols.

Ed's arm was the price of fixing a soul to a body. The process requires the same to fix a new soul to a newly formed artificial organic mass like the mother they tried to create.

Back to Al. He was only held back by his youth back in the day and he is a powerful alchemist is spite of being only a SOUL! That's right! He's a ghost in a suit of armor and his soul may not even be complete, yet he is still an enormously powerful alchemist. His body is stuck in limbo staring at a wall filled with symbols. When he gets out and he is at 100%... what do you think he'll be capable of? Ed has advantage of still having his brain, his flesh, an intact soul. As was seen with Barry the Chopper, a soul fixed to armor is not complete, the original body still retains some of it, drawing it to wherever the majority of its missing soul is.

Last edited by mechalord; 2009-11-03 at 12:50.
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Old 2009-11-03, 13:27   Link #1027
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Is it a toll? Ed went through the gate a second time and it didn't cost him anything. I think that creating the body requires the raw material but requires part of a body to animate it(make it alive, give it a new soul). H. To get out of Gluttony, he performed human transmutation but the bodies he recreated on the other side were same that were inside Gluttony and possessed the same souls. He didn't have to give up anything.
Both the manga and the anime made it quite clear that you always pay the toll when you go to the gate. Ed went to the gate three times not twice, first when he tried to transmute his mother, then when he bound Al's soul to the armor then when he escaped from gluttony. The first toll was his leg, the second toll was his arm, and the third toll he paid using envy's stone. There was that whole scene where Ed didn't want to use the philosopher's stone and Envy was saying that it's just energy not people, and to just do it.
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Old 2009-11-03, 17:56   Link #1028
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Yep. and for the record, Al's soul is on the armor, his body is in the gate, and his mind is attached to both, linking them. (Ed also seems to be linked to al's body, possibly due to them mixing their blood during the attempted human transmutation, possibly due to chance when they were decomposed as they were brought through the gate, possibly as a hand wave to make it possible for Al to return without his body completing dyinig :P). Al's body does not have some kind of super reservoir of talent waiting to be unlocked once his soul reunited with it. That's not how it works.

And as mentioned, the toll is not for human transmutation, but to open the gate, a passage fee, so to speak. What you pay remains at/in the gate.

During the attempted transmutation of Trisha, Ed and Al opened the gate and paid the following fees:
Ed: Lost his Left leg.
Al: Lost his entire body. His soul also suffered from a "rebound" effect of the attempted transmutation, and attached to the thing that Ed and Al transmuted, which died literally seconds after being made. Once the thing's body died, Al's soul was let free, and it was naturally drawn back to the gate, where Al's body was.

Immediately after this, Ed drew a soul-binding alchemic array onto the nearby suit of armor (which was either part of the knowledge he gained from seeing the truth, or something he thought up under the intense pressure of the situation using part of his developed theory of human transmutation... think of it like an intellectual adrenaline-rush :P), and opened the gate again.

This time, the toll was Ed's right arm. Once the gate was opened, Ed was able to retrieve Al's soul and bind it to the armor.

The third time Ed opened the gate, the toll used was some of the souls from Envy's philosopher stone.
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Old 2009-11-03, 18:07   Link #1029
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For the record, it's not that philosopher's stones are some kinds of deus-ex machina that increase alchemic abilities to unimaginable levels because it's a philosopher's stone, it's that the raw energy contained within the stone serves as a magnifying agent of an existing transmutation.

Although the effiiciency of this process seems to vary from stone to stone (ie: the "fake/incomplete" stones used by Marcoh for healing and Cornello for his 'miracles' have a limited amount of usesbefore the stones break... when the energy is depleted). It seems that increasing the energy of the stone by increasing the amount of souls the stones are consisted of, like the case with Father, Hohenheim, and the homunculi, not only makes the stones have more uses overall, but also makes the process more efficient for each use, and in the case of hohenheim and Father, the depletion of their stones is infinitesimal, practically non-existant, except in the cases where they are used for regeneration
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Old 2009-11-07, 08:55   Link #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaimeGuy View Post
For the record, it's not that philosopher's stones are some kinds of deus-ex machina that increase alchemic abilities to unimaginable levels because it's a philosopher's stone, it's that the raw energy contained within the stone serves as a magnifying agent of an existing transmutation.

Although the effiiciency of this process seems to vary from stone to stone (ie: the "fake/incomplete" stones used by Marcoh for healing and Cornello for his 'miracles' have a limited amount of usesbefore the stones break... when the energy is depleted). It seems that increasing the energy of the stone by increasing the amount of souls the stones are consisted of, like the case with Father, Hohenheim, and the homunculi, not only makes the stones have more uses overall, but also makes the process more efficient for each use, and in the case of hohenheim and Father, the depletion of their stones is infinitesimal, practically non-existant, except in the cases where they are used for regeneration
I think there is a limit to them, except that because both Hohenheim and Homunculus consist of half a million people, the amount of energy stored inside each stone is immense. Think of it as an ocean that goes further than the eye can see. To one human's pov, the energy seems endless because it's one human facing the power of half a million others condensed into one individual body.
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Old 2009-11-07, 16:41   Link #1031
GaimeGuy
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Yeah but think about how Marcoh often would run out of uses of his philosopher's stones, then think of how Armestrisian alchemy uses Father's stone (at least, that's what has been implied), and how many alchemic reactions have occurred over the centuries. Plus, the fact that he's also created homunculus, using some of the lives within him.

I'm just saying that it seems that if a stone made from 10 lives takes 1000 uses to be depleted, a stone made from 5 lives takes 200 uses, and a stone made from 100 lives takes a billion uses.

or something along those lines. The efficiency of a stone increasees exponentially according to the # of souls used to create it.
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Old 2009-11-08, 00:53   Link #1032
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OMFG! I found some preview pages!

WARNING SPOILERS

Spoiler for DON'T LOOK UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE MAJORLY SPOILED:


Spoiler for MORE SPOILERS:
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Old 2009-11-08, 01:00   Link #1033
Who
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^Have my reps. I gave in to my impatience and wanted to find out some spoilers and here you pop up with this gold mine.
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Old 2009-11-08, 03:49   Link #1034
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asdfasdfadfskafdl @ (SPOILERS)
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-11-08, 09:43   Link #1035
Bombo
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so damnt cool in this manga to be honest ;D
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Old 2009-11-08, 09:56   Link #1036
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@Who - thanks a lot! You're very welcome!
Spoiler for spoilers from above:
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Old 2009-11-08, 11:00   Link #1037
RadiantBeam
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Reps for you. I couldn't resist looking. O__O

Spoiler for Manga:
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Old 2009-11-08, 11:24   Link #1038
wandering-dreamer
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O_O When is the next chapter due out again?
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Old 2009-11-08, 13:16   Link #1039
GaimeGuy
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Chapter 102? In a month

Translations for chapter 101? Probably around Tuesday o r so.
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Old 2009-11-08, 14:34   Link #1040
K_Babyy
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Oh man, those scans are simply AMAZING!! I can't wait to read it!!
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