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Old 2009-11-06, 12:06   Link #4121
ijriims
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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
And as for your sin: it sounds like a variation of the pony theory, only this time it's done with the family and Maria instead. But I have some problems with it, simply being the fact that I can't tell from you which one is actually Beatrice:
1. If Kyrie is Beatrice, why does she give a damn about Maria?
2. If Rosa is Beatrice, what's her motive for killing everyone - killing the Ushiromiya family to save Maria from this cruel world? What does that even mean?

If the murders are done to save Maria, than it's more logical that Rosa is Beatrice, and Rosa's just too suspicious in my books to identify her as the culprit - I view Rosa and Eva to be really about the same, in that both are heavily shown to be the culprit.
My sin? Are you accusing me for leading to the death of my family?

My theory is always Kyrie being Beatrice, Maria would not take Rosa as Beatrice.

Kyrie was sympathetic towards Maria. As a grownup, Kyrie saw what she was like during childhood, like Maria, she was also dreaming all about witches and magic. In fact, Maria brought back many of the childhood dreams to Kyrie (recall that in the TIPS in EP4 it was said that Beatrice was powerless before forming alliance with Maria). Similarly, their dream were crushed by the teaching of their parents. They were both born under a strict and big family. And Kyrie was supposed to be the head of Sumadera family and received harsh training. She don't want Maria to lose her innocence too soon. Kyrie told Maria she was Beatrice and adopted Maria as apprentice and kept contact with her. In latter time, she knew that Rosa effectively abandoned Maria alone in the home while dating with other men (Kyrie had the ability to deduce it, as what other people who seen Maria buying things alone would have deduced). Kyrie regarded Rosa as a hopeless mother. But at the same time, she knew Maria loved her mother so much but she thought it was an unrequited love. When Rosa torn Sakutarou, she thought Maria was never going to be happy, and after being in 5 family meetings and having witnessed all the struggles and greediness of the siblings, she decided that the whole Ushiromiya family was broken. She promised Maria the prospect of Golden Land and planned all the killing in the context of witch's doing. In the hope that the whole Ushiromiya family would unite together against the witch and regain their love. She indeed hope that someone would stop her, if there is proof that the family is not incorrigible, if someone can give Kyrie some hopes about the family.

But Kyrie made a mistake, she thought Rosa would never love Maria back. But indeed what Ange saw in 1998 in captain's house was a proof that Rosa did love Maria (aka. Sakutarou without the neckerchief, as a surprise gift from Rosa after the meeting). That's my theory of Beatrice's motive.

And for the happy ending, it would be Battler and the children persuading the siblings into abandoning their competition and distrust, confronting the real Beatrice among them, then the whole family solves the epigraph together and found out what lies in Quadorian. In the end, it was true that even lost love came back. This is my prediction of the ending.

Without love, one cannot see the truth.


(One of the main reasons why I believe Kyrie as Beatrice is because I think only she could develop deep sympathy towards Maria and appreciated Maria's innocence, while having the ability to devise the whole plan. Jessica and Shannon were both too young.)

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-07 at 01:46.
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Old 2009-11-06, 13:06   Link #4122
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Wondering if you've looked at Episode5, as I'd like to move this to the Spoilers and Specs thread, as I would simply argue that Kyrie caring about Maria violates Episode 5 red truths.
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Old 2009-11-06, 13:22   Link #4123
ijriims
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Wondering if you've looked at Episode5, as I'd like to move this to the Spoilers and Specs thread, as I would simply argue that Kyrie caring about Maria violates Episode 5 red truths.
Sure, I have not read episode 5 though. I know some of the event from EP5 but not all. You could argue it as you want.

In fact, you arguing Shannon caring Maria is a better approach than merely demolishing mine, unless you don't think Beatrice cares for Maria.

But I wonder which red texts you wanted to refer to, are there any red texts concerning Kyrie at all in EP5?

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-07 at 07:47.
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Old 2009-11-06, 23:14   Link #4124
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I wont entirely place my bet on Kyrie being Beatrice but its possible that she was involved.

And its best not to mention episode 5 stuff here.

The only thing im concerned about is that particular event in episode 1.

Rudolph said he was going to die to both Kyrie and Battler and Kyrie went up to question him, in the absence of Battler of course.
Well, i presume Rudolph would have told Kyrie the reason and being as intelligent as usual, i cant think of any reason why the two of them cant plot together to try to solve whatever problems Rudolph had.

Heh, in terms of capabilities, i think that the Rudolph and Kyrie pair is ranked above the other pairs. Both in wits and strength.

The weird thing is that, even though Rudolph knew he was going to die and possibly with Kyrie's help, the two still ended up dead.

I can only think of two possible scenarios:

-Kyrie and Rudolph was not sufficient to counter whatever that happened during that night.
-Or... It was on purpose.

I can't really imagine the contents of the adult discussion that managed to give Rudolph an impression of his impending death. The only way possible for him to do so would be to get some clues and hints of the happenings. Say maybe seeing a servant hide a gun in the toilet or maybe having Eva personally threaten him.
However, the consistency of Rudolph's death at the first twilight seem to favour the latter possibility.
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Old 2009-11-06, 23:21   Link #4125
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Again the entire "I'm going to get killed" doesn't have to be literal - it could very well be metaphoric.
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Old 2009-11-06, 23:30   Link #4126
hodil
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Wow that didnt strike me. Its hard to perceive that sentence as a metaphor after it really did come true the following day.
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Old 2009-11-07, 00:51   Link #4127
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The metaphor being in the line of "Oh man, look at this place. She's going to kill me when she gets home." Or in the same line just spoken to someone else present "I'm going to get killed because of this."
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Old 2009-11-07, 02:02   Link #4128
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Kaiba, there are too many inconsistencies to conclude there is only ever one single plot; more than likely, there are multiple murderers or circles. The theory of George being the mastermind and Shannon being Beatrice is plausible but it just doesn't make sense in episode 2 and 3. Rosa won't shoot George as long as he can act well enough, which he can if as you said he is the mastermind, he acted splendidly on the twilights that Eva/Hideyoshi died. You say Rosa won't leave the room, what about the toilet? or food? As soon as Rosa turns her back, a swift knock and there you will get the gun. It's also too risky to leave behind one whole group of 'sheep' on their own while you kill the isolated pawns as there's always the chance they catch you in the act; this is something that a murderer with profit in mind(George) would definitely have thought of. Leaving them holed up inside means you're playing a waiting game, which isn't the best idea considering rescue is coming in 2 days.

And you haven't rebutted my counter for your episode 3. Who killed Nanjo? At that point all of your culprits are already dead. George's death cannot be argued really, he died plain and simple, Shannon died the same way as George and Genji was dead from the start. Furthermore, if Shannon was already dead from the start, there was even less reason to kill Genji. Genji is the most useful person, it doesn't make sense to take out your knight after your queen was already taken for nothing. Since this is a murder for profit, you can also expect George to 'make the best moves' unlike how Lamdadelta says Meta-Beatrice plays.
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Old 2009-11-07, 02:47   Link #4129
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There is something about how Maria reacts to Beatrice in 2 and 3. In 2, skirt Beatrice is on the board so to speak. Though in 2, one could say Beatrice shows up from time to time as well as Eva-Beatrice. While the later on scenes of Beatrice bringing back Shannon and saving Jessica may or may not be telling, what of the scene with Rosa and Maria when you have both Beatrices?

If Beatrice is suppose to be the family member that found the gold...could not Rosa and Eva be "Beatrice" Or to get even more complex....could Eva, Rosa, and Shannon, be "Beatrice", depending on the event?

Remember, just because you are "Beatrice" doesn't mean you are committing the murders. "Beatrice" could be the shield to hide the reason for the killings by taking the blame.

In 1 and 3, Shannon is dead at the First Twilight (or at least she's thought to be dead in Game 1). However Rosa is also dead in the First Twilight in Game 1. No Beatrice shows up in the game. In Game 2 Rosa goes on to the end and Beatrice shows up a bit. Shannon dies in one of the later Twilights. In Game 3 we see that Eva and Rosa find the gold. Could Rosa have found the gold earlier? Did she ever have time? There were three bars out in Game 2 rather than Krauss' single bar, meaning whoever set that up had found the gold already. Since Rosa was able to find the gold once...whats to say she didn't before?

Game 4 Rosa dies in the First Twilight...of course Shannon is killed not too long after that...seeing how weird everything is.

Was it really "Beatrice" that kills Battler in the end of Game 4? Or are there more than one "Beatrice" and thus there is not single woman we can pin that title on?



I'm not sure it I'm making sense anymore. Just something about how "Beatrice" kills Maria and Rosa in Game 3 while Eva-Beatrice is there, and Beatrice's comment about how she's not going to be able to keep her promise to Maria.
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Old 2009-11-07, 03:27   Link #4130
ijriims
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In 1 and 3, Shannon is dead at the First Twilight (or at least she's thought to be dead in Game 1). However Rosa is also dead in the First Twilight in Game 1. No Beatrice shows up in the game. In Game 2 Rosa goes on to the end and Beatrice shows up a bit. Shannon dies in one of the later Twilights. In Game 3 we see that Eva and Rosa find the gold. Could Rosa have found the gold earlier? Did she ever have time? There were three bars out in Game 2 rather than Krauss' single bar, meaning whoever set that up had found the gold already. Since Rosa was able to find the gold once...whats to say she didn't before?

I'm not sure it I'm making sense anymore. Just something about how "Beatrice" kills Maria and Rosa in Game 3 while Eva-Beatrice is there, and Beatrice's comment about how she's not going to be able to keep her promise to Maria.
Beatrice did show up right in the end of EP1, when Battler, Jessica and George watched Maria running to and hugged Beatrice. You could reread the episode end to verify it.

I suppose Rosa did find the Gold in EP2, but not in other episode. She tried to prove that she found the gold but other siblings won't accept, so she killed them all.

My theory as Kyrie as Beatrice could explain why Beatrice mention she could not keep her promise in EP3. The reason is that Maria and all people were supposed to be killed by Beatrice only (from Maria's perspective, she and Rosa were not killed, but brought to Golden Land by Beatrice). But Maria witnessed Eva killing Rosa and was killed by Eva, she had no idea what was going on since Eva was not Beatrice in her mind. So meta-Beatrice said to her she could not kept the promise.

I suppose in other episodes (excluding EP2), Maria was killed by Kyrie. The treatment of the body in EP1 was done after killing her peacefully (poisoning as in EP4). As for the reason why she had to treat her body like that, Kyrie could hide her death by crushing all bodies on the island. She left the chin of Maria to remain to let others to be certain about her death, while throwing out the letter-in-bottle hoping someone could solve the mystery which she did not understand in the name of Maria.

Holes exist, I guess. But I have not seen other theories concerning the letters-in-the-bottle up to this moment.

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-07 at 03:43.
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Old 2009-11-07, 03:34   Link #4131
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How i viewed the second twilight of EP3:

Although EvaB and Beatrice were both present at the crime scene, I never really considered for two culprits to actually be present when considering the anti-fantasy perspective.

In fact, i do not believe for that particular twilight, the presence of Beatrice or EvaB could mean the physical presence of a person.

Simply put, i view the *beatrice acting nice* thingy scene as a simple plot development for the metaworld.

In the anti-fantasy perspective, I see Eva killing Rosa after an argument over the gold and stranggling Maria afterwards.
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Old 2009-11-07, 03:49   Link #4132
ijriims
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How i viewed the second twilight of EP3:

Although EvaB and Beatrice were both present at the crime scene, I never really considered for two culprits to actually be present when considering the anti-fantasy perspective.

In fact, i do not believe for that particular twilight, the presence of Beatrice or EvaB could mean the physical presence of a person.

Simply put, i view the *beatrice acting nice* thingy scene as a simple plot development for the metaworld.

In the anti-fantasy perspective, I see Eva killing Rosa after an argument over the gold and stranggling Maria afterwards.
Though my opinion is exactly the same as yours for what happened in the real world in the 2nd twilight in EP3, I have to say that the fantasy world do offer us hints about relationship among characters in the real world. Especially between Maria and Beatrice.

The fantasy scenes did reflect partial truth at times.
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Old 2009-11-07, 08:09   Link #4133
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In Game 2 Rosa goes on to the end and Beatrice shows up a bit. Shannon dies in one of the later Twilights. In Game 3 we see that Eva and Rosa find the gold. Could Rosa have found the gold earlier? Did she ever have time? There were three bars out in Game 2 rather than Krauss' single bar, meaning whoever set that up had found the gold already. Since Rosa was able to find the gold once...whats to say she didn't before?
By what I can understand of the epitaph, there are different parts that need to be solved. Rosa noticed the most important one, however Rosa doesn't seem to have ever thought what Kyrie did. Imho both reasonings are necessary in order to solve the epitaph and if you don't know both of them you won't be able to succeed. Episode3 allowed an unusual scenario to happen. The adults put their minds all together in order to solve the epitaph, that caused different theories and thinkings to be exposed.

As Rosa said, Eva would have never found the gold if she wasn't told about that "village of gold", and in fact Kyrie wasn't able to figure out the solution. In the end the ones who solved the riddle were those who understood both reasonings.

In conclusion it is quite possible that Rosa never solved the riddle except for Episode3.

About the three gold ingots, they can easily be explained if Beatrice has found the gold. Beatrice exists, she claims the gold is her own, and we know she's got access to a lot of money (bank accounts).
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Old 2009-11-07, 08:13   Link #4134
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And you haven't rebutted my counter for your episode 3. Who killed Nanjo? At that point all of your culprits are already dead. George's death cannot be argued really, he died plain and simple, Shannon died the same way as George and Genji was dead from the start.
I don't really see why George's death can't be argued. He got attacked, was badly wounded and was left to die, and attacked Nanjo once he realized that Nanjo was still around.

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Furthermore, if Shannon was already dead from the start, there was even less reason to kill Genji. Genji is the most useful person, it doesn't make sense to take out your knight after your queen was already taken for nothing. Since this is a murder for profit, you can also expect George to 'make the best moves' unlike how Lamdadelta says Meta-Beatrice plays.
Maybe Genji didn't feel like playing along after realizing that George had killed Shannon either? Furthermore, in this particular scenario, George is not thinking clearly - this isn't a murder for the sake of the witch's resurrection, this is simply a panicked murder done in order to cover up Shannon's single death.

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You say Rosa won't leave the room, what about the toilet? or food?
.......Really? Is this the classic "why don't fictional characters go to the bathroom" question?

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It's also too risky to leave behind one whole group of 'sheep' on their own while you kill the isolated pawns as there's always the chance they catch you in the act;
But what's George going to do? There's no way that he can take on Rosa with a gun and Battler by himself - following the chess metaphor, George is the king who's right now isolated, obviously a dangerous position for him. Furthermore, it would probably be useful to be able to contact his pieces and instruct them on whom to kill and when and so on, and as he's not going to be doing anything stuck next to Rosa, he might as well leave and see what happens.

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more than likely, there are multiple murderers or circles.
I don't believe that those four killed every single person such as Kyrie, Rudolf, and Hideyoshi in Episode three, and there are instances where Genji and especially Nanjo don't obey orders and even betray George and Shannon. So no, not everything is the work of one simple conspiracy, but the vast majority. And I personally believe that there are very few murderers, as it's pointless to have a mystery where nearly everyone's a killer.

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Since Rosa was able to find the gold once...whats to say she didn't before?
I don't believe that Rosa could keep such a thing secret, especially as she has zero reason to do so in the first place. She needs money badly, and she desperately wants to be noticed by her older siblings, which solving the riddle would do. I frankly don't believe that Eva ever solved the riddle in the first place for the exact same reason - as far as I'm concerned, her first action on finding the gold would have been to rush in the guesthouse gloating in joy and rubbing it in in Krauss's face.
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Old 2009-11-07, 10:13   Link #4135
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I don't really see why George's death can't be argued. He got attacked, was badly wounded and was left to die, and attacked Nanjo once he realized that Nanjo was still around.
He had a gaping hole in his chest, even if it wasn't an instant death he'd have died by bleeding. Not to mention the time gap between Nanjo's death and when his body was found, furthermore, as per your theory, Nanjo killed George, so he should be very sure in confirming George's death and making sure he's dead if he isn't. Running around with a weapon, giving your victim time to plead for death while having a hole in your chest just really isn't possible. But, this argument is no use since I didn't know you don't only have one faction of killers in your theory.

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But what's George going to do? There's no way that he can take on Rosa with a gun and Battler by himself - following the chess metaphor, George is the king who's right now isolated, obviously a dangerous position for him. Furthermore, it would probably be useful to be able to contact his pieces and instruct them on whom to kill and when and so on, and as he's not going to be doing anything stuck next to Rosa, he might as well leave and see what happens.
Well, to me, I guess this just boils down to a matter of opinion. For me, I feel he can achieve his objectives easier. He can try turning Battler over to his side, use surprise attacks on Rosa etc. He may be an isolated king, but no one knows that; and he should know Battler would definitely defend him to the last if ever Rosa got suspicious, which would also make it easier to make use of Battler. You have a relevant argument there with your safety approach. I'm a more aggressive style player. Nice theory btw, I would like to see the details and stuff on the murders.
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Old 2009-11-08, 23:31   Link #4136
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Ick, that thing again. 3rd or 4th topic its been posted in by now XD And the conversation about whether DEEN will do it worse has also been talked to death.
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Old 2009-11-08, 23:36   Link #4137
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I posted this in in the speculation thread, and was urged to repost it here (on account of being spoiled for episode 5). Take note its not an entirely original theory, just that it seems likely for me as of the moment.

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(by some other guy) Jessica is Beatrice

I have been kicking around the theory that Beatrice is in fact a hidden personality of Jessica, born from her own frustration at her position, Kinzo's madness, and perhaps Battler's percieved abandonment of her. I'm going to try and put my complete theory down in this thread, as I've only posted bits and pieces of it in various threads.

First of all. This theory assumes the information from Episode 3 concerning Beatrice is correct. Kinzo met her years before, and after borrowing the gold, fell in love with her. Kinzo, undeterred when she rejected him, simply took her by force, building a hidden mansion on the island he bought and imprisoning her there. Unable to escape, she eventually commited suicide.

However, she had a child, or Kinzo found an infant that bore a high enough resemblance, and this child was kept on in the hidden mansion for her entire life, looked after by Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo checking up on occasion. Years later, Rosa stumbles across the hidden mansion, and meets Beatrice #2 who has been desiring to leave and see the outside world. She leads that Beatrice out, only for her to fall from a cliff and die on the rocks below.

Again, she may have been pregnant, or another child was acquired. The timing here is important. Battler and Jessica were both born in 1967 roughly, since they are both 18 in 1985. In '67 Krauss and Natsuhi had been trying to conceive unsuccessfully for more than a decade. Since Kuwadorian wasnt used after Beatrice #2 died accidentally, Kinzo must have wanted to keep the newly born Beatrice someplace she could be kept under observation and not so isolated. So, he gave the child to Krauss and Natsuhi, sternly ordering them to look after her as their own. He may have even told them not to worry about proper succession, as she carried his blood. This might be why Krauss and Natsuhi are somewhat distant from their daughter.

Battler is born at roughly the same time, Rudolph's son, though not to Asumu. Asumu probably miscarried instead of Kyrie, and the Ushiromiyas forced Kyrie to turn over her child to Rudolph and Asumu. The miscarried child was going to also be named Battler, that name got passed on to Kyrie's firstborn (this is also why Battler and Ange look so alike). It has also been theorized that Jessica is actually Rudolph and Asumu's daughter, and was given over to Krauss for some reason. Then Battler was taken from Kyrie, and she may have been led to believe her child died.

As time passes, Kinzo's mind slips further into madness. Jessica is raised normally, though as she gets older Kinzo begins paying more and more attention to her, convinced she is yet another Beatrice. When Jessica and Battler are about 12, Battler says something to Jessica that leaves a deep impression on her, even if he thought little of it. He might have bragged that he'd come charging to the rescue if she were ever in trouble, or he'd help her escape from her oppressive family, something along those lines.

Shortly after, Asumu dies. Rudolph remarries quickly, to Kyrie, who is pregnant with Ange. Battler can't accept this turn of events, and leaves the family to live with Asumu's parents.

Kinzo's madness worsens. Jessica feels like Battler abandoned her. Kinzo starts visiting Jessica more often, telling her about the previous Beatrices, and revealing many of his secrets to her. At some point, Kinzo makes a move on Jessica. Given Kinzo's personality, he's not likely to ask. Also recall what Beatrice said about Kinzo's interests... This may have happened more than once. At some point, Jessica's mind, unable to accept what was happening to her and despairing over Battler, who never came, broke down and a new persona was formed, taking the name of Beatrice.

Sometime in 1983, Kinzo dies. Jessica may have killed him, perhaps trying to resist him. Krauss might have done it as well if he found out what was going on with all of Jessica's visits to his room (remember, like Rudolph told Kyrie once, even though he brags and blusters, Krauss can become the most reliable of the siblings when the chips are down. If he found out Kinzo was raping his daughter, I don't think Kinzo would be around much longer.). Either way, it was neccessary to conceal Kinzo's death, in order to protect his family and also prevent the distribution of the inheritance. In all likelyhood, all of the negative memories and emotions Jessica had experienced got shoved onto Beatrice and locked away.

A few more years pass. Beatrice spends most of the time dormant, though she does come forward to speak to Shannon, sadistically urging her forward deeper into a relationship with George,which she thinks is bound to fail. She even tells Kanon as much when he catches her before she regresses after one of her meetings with Shannon. Which makes the relationship Jessica wants to make with him rather... awkward, since he's afraid this is another cruel joke of Beato's. George and Shannon's relationship seems to be poised to succeed despite all odds, much to Jessica and Beato's envy.

Then word comes to Rokkenjima: Battler is coming back into the family. Beatrice awakens, and begins forming a plan to take revenge on Battler for forgetting his promise to her.

Jessica is in the perfect position to set the ball rolling. From her father, she know that all the siblings are in a precarious position financially. The tensions regarding the succession of the headship are getting high, especially with the rumor being spread among the siblings that whoever solves Kinzo's riddle will become the next head. Confirming this is enough to get people all hot and bothered.

Now throw in some wild cards. Through Kinzo, Jessica knows where the gold is. She knows the servants, probably better than her parents. She knows where Kinzo keeps Beatrice's old clothes. She knows about the emergency funds Kinzo set up, and where he kept all the keys. She can get out from her parents supervision for days at a time under the pretense of bad weather. She knows the ins and outs of both mansions. And don't forget, she knows Maria will believe just about anything if you say you are a witch.

From here, events depend upon the exact conditions of the game. She might carry out some of the killings herself, or it might not even be neccessary. She could be the person putting the magic circles and whatnot around the house, since she and Nanjo are the likliest to know how to make proper symbols (and she knows Maria can read them).

In the case of Episode 2, after she or her accomplice killed all the parents but Rosa, Kanon may have confronted her while she was alone with him. He stabbed her, she retaliated, and wound up killing him. She moved the body out of her room and hid it someplace, then locked herself back into her room, and later died.

Though, could she have been faking? I remember Beato saying Kanon was dead with the red, but was Jessica's death confirmed in the way? I don't recall as much, but if she knew where Kanon's body was, she could have dressed in his bloody clothes and a wig to fool the servants, however briefly, while she waited for a chance to attack them.

Not much red was used in Ep4, and none regarding Jessica really. She could have worn Beatrice's clothes and greeted Battler from the balcony. Despite Battler's surity that it was 'Beatrice', his outlook was warped after the converation with Kyrie. Plus, I dont know if it was a translation error or not: she was described as coming out of the second floor balcony. But Kinzo's room is on the THIRD floor, right? Jessica's is on the second flood if I recall correctly though... Either way, Battler was looking up at her from 10-20 feet or so, in the dark, while it was raining hard. I'm not going to begrudge him for fooling himself into believing it.
I'm merging the above theory with "Kanon as a possible accomplice", namely, Kanon surviving the staking in episode 1 and carrying out the subsequent murders. In the first game, Jessica, Nanjo and Kumasawa are the only ones to attest him being dead, and all have suspicious circumstances of their own. In addition, in episode 4, Kanon can continue being Jessica's proxy/accomplice, only to be killed by her just before the game ends and be confirmed as dead.

As to circumstances: Kanon simply "disappears" in many arcs and has a loyalty to his milady. Nanjo is in a prime position to attend to any medical conditions (such as gynaecologic assessments or pregnancy, if indeed a rape has taken place), not just Kinzo's impending death, which has been proven false anyway (Kinzo was dead all along, so what reason was he there?). Kumasawa has been confirmed to know about Kuwadorian, and if she indeed, as some theorize, was the previous Beatrice and didn't kill herself, would sympathize with Jessica's plight.

I also think its important that Jessica's body is never found in many arcs. She is "ripped apart and sent to hell" in episode 1 (a pile of undescernable body parts isn't a body. DNA wasn't around at that point). She simply disappears in episode 3. Episode 2 can be explained by the above theory, as can episode 4.

This also does not preclude other murderers taking advantage of events, such as Kyrie in episode 3 or Rosa in episode 2. In these cases, new murderer Y notices murders taking place, and uses the opportunity to commit their own murders (possibly even taking down the original murderers doing so). The alternative being, the original murder group X (under the theory, Jessica, with Kanon, Kumasawa or Nanjo as potential accomplices) sees murders they did not commit, become scared and do no more murders, then are murdered themselves. Or additional murders may simply be caused by panic and fear (which is possible with Rosa in episode 2).
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Last edited by Neofio3; 2009-11-09 at 02:27.
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Old 2009-11-09, 01:28   Link #4138
Echoman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
Ick, that thing again. 3rd or 4th topic its been posted in by now XD And the conversation about whether DEEN will do it worse has also been talked to death.
Ah, sorry then x.x Honestly, I didn't check around that much. Just saw it posted on /jp/ and immediately thought of you guys. BUT, no reason to make yet another copy of the same things, so... *deletes*
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Old 2009-11-09, 15:51   Link #4139
rogerpepitone
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In episode 3, Lambdadelta gives the unclue about Evatrice's catchphrase being a clue to her identity. Are there any other catchphrases? Maybe one of them is a real clue.
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Old 2009-11-09, 15:59   Link #4140
Auria
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Dame da, zenzen dame da na.

Battler = Ange = Kinzo
Kinzo = Lie
Kinzo = Cake
Battler and Ange = Lies, but I'd prefer especially Battler to be a cake


Well, I always felt like "How nice, how nice" was said by Beatrice often, but maybe that's just my imagination.
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