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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 22 16.54%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 16.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 33 24.81%
7 out of 10 : Good 29 21.80%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 12.03%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 5.26%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.75%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.75%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.75%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-11-12, 13:07   Link #101
Crontica
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Which is why if the crazy faces and dark atmosphere was used more often (maria aside) the music track would not feel out of place.
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Old 2009-11-12, 13:28   Link #102
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Listening to miragecoordinator...It doesn't fell right for the tone of Lambda's scene. It fact the beat of it suggests an action scene than a talking scene. It is also seven minutes long. While it might sound all nice in the Sound Novel...it just doesn't fit the scene when things are moving and speaking.
Of course it doesn't fit in the anime because that part was A HORRIBLE ADAPTATION in the sound it was a very tense scene and with lambda crazy faces and practically scaring all of us that bgm was PERFECT but in the anime it was a cute speak between ange and lambda and of course miragecoordinator don't fit at all.
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Old 2009-11-12, 13:36   Link #103
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As usual, I enjoyed this episode.
I think I finally understand the "magic" of Maria now.
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Old 2009-11-12, 14:06   Link #104
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That's around the middle of the song...like three or four minutes into it. The rest of the scene before that doesn't fit the music at all if in motion. The beginning sounds like it should be a chase scene or at least some sort of magic scene rather than just Ange and Lambda talking. Even if it is pointed, the music doesn't fit when it isn't just text on a screen and sprites that chance facial expressions. At least not for the whole song. Sure the reveal and the song timing might have been perfect for the SN, but that doesn't work in an anime...since you'd have three or so minutes of intense music..without equally intense stuff happening on scene...it doesn't fit from an film point of view. No director is going to place an intense action sounding piece on a talk scene for a reveal if there is no action going on. It just isn't done that way, and I'm sure the director of this episode knew that and this is why it wasn't used.
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Old 2009-11-12, 14:27   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That's around the middle of the song...like three or four minutes into it. The rest of the scene before that doesn't fit the music at all if in motion. The beginning sounds like it should be a chase scene or at least some sort of magic scene rather than just Ange and Lambda talking. Even if it is pointed, the music doesn't fit when it isn't just text on a screen and sprites that chance facial expressions. At least not for the whole song. Sure the reveal and the song timing might have been perfect for the SN, but that doesn't work in an anime...since you'd have three or so minutes of intense music..without equally intense stuff happening on scene...it doesn't fit from an film point of view. No director is going to place an intense action sounding piece on a talk scene for a reveal if there is no action going on. It just isn't done that way, and I'm sure the director of this episode knew that and this is why it wasn't used.
I disagree. Remember what they did in EP1 for the scene in the kitchen when Battler was freaking out about the servants. It has to be possible to frame a scene similar to that way and set it to music. And since Lambdadelta is basically revealing to Ange that the only thing she's ever wanted is absolutely impossible, I think the scene has more than enough tension to deserve it.

By this point, I'm pretty sure they just didn't have the time or resources to remix and time all the SN tracks. Of course, this is understandable, since the SN had over 100 tracks in it.
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Old 2009-11-12, 14:58   Link #106
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Its the drum beat for me...it just doesn't fit a non-action scene for the first minute and about twenty seconds, then sounds ominous and doomworthy for thirty or forty seconds then returns to that drum beat. Sounds like someone should be running around until about the three minute mark, then it sounds like a revelation, then repeats.

It would make a perfect action/magic BGM. Running through the mansion watching for the culprit, the stakes, or Lambdadelta, sometimes getting attacked or reached for by the stakes...encounter Lambda for creapy doom, then back to running or fighting until you reach some locations for a revelation of some sort. Such as a dead family member or perhaps a true identity of Beatrice. Repeat song with second character, or have them move on for a second chase and another revelation.

It just moves too fast to seem like two people talking...even with reveals from Lambda, it just doesn't sound like a talking scene's music. Sounds like something should be happening. We are talking about the same Miragecoordinator BGM, right?
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Old 2009-11-12, 15:06   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Its the drum beat for me...it just doesn't fit a non-action scene for the first minute and about twenty seconds, then sounds ominous and doomworthy for thirty or forty seconds then returns to that drum beat. Sounds like someone should be running around until about the three minute mark, then it sounds like a revelation, then repeats.

It would make a perfect action/magic BGM. Running through the mansion watching for the culprit, the stakes, or Lambdadelta, sometimes getting attacked or reached for by the stakes...encounter Lambda for creapy doom, then back to running or fighting until you reach some locations for a revelation of some sort. Such as a dead family member or perhaps a true identity of Beatrice. Repeat song with second character, or have them move on for a second chase and another revelation.

It just moves too fast to seem like two people talking...even with reveals from Lambda, it just doesn't sound like a talking scene's music. Sounds like something should be happening. We are talking about the same Miragecoordinator BGM, right?
I guess we're not talking about the same BGM, because it would be awful for action music. Do you enjoy Suspicion, by chance?

The drums are great for what they're supposed to do, drum up the questions and doubt.
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Old 2009-11-12, 15:23   Link #108
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Suspicion has a lazy drum beat. It would be good for a mystery feel to a scene, but mainly when people are just kind of talking or maybe wondering around in hallways...sort of like the title suggests "Suspicion". It is a mood setter piece, nothing more.

By action I don't mean the Hollywood version which is stuff blowing up, I mean that something is happening on screen. It seems fast paced so either running, fighting, or a magic duel going on...but something happening for when the beat is up. It works when it is text coming up and all, but it wouldn't work with people just talking on screen in something animated. At the least they would need Lambda and Ange pacing around each other and adding hand motions or gestures to keep the timing of the music in mind.
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Old 2009-11-12, 15:28   Link #109
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Try playing miragecoordinator from the point on the world freezes and in my opinion it's not bad, I like how fast paced music gives this scene with rather slow cuts much more epicness and because of the track you're like "omg something happens, I should observe it, it must be dramatic so oh shi-" XD
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Old 2009-11-12, 16:21   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegitto-kun View Post
I found the first part of episode 4 boring

so do most people, if they made a poll asking they would get atleast 80% voting it was boring
There have been polls, and Ange usually ranks very highly which would mean that a lot of people actually enjoyed her part of 4. Really to even suggest that 80% of the fanbase dislikes the first half of Episode 4 is a stupid statement.
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Old 2009-11-12, 16:21   Link #111
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Just... too confused to make a comment =_=
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Old 2009-11-12, 16:23   Link #112
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Liking Ange and thinking the first part of a story is boring does not have to be connected.
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Old 2009-11-12, 16:28   Link #113
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Originally Posted by Crontica View Post
Episode fell flat. If they are this slow paced, which would be considered standard pacing in most anime. Then the rest of ep 4 is going to be stuck on flashforward.

I do not like how the mood of the series in general has been completely evaporated, where is the higurashi tension? The "OHO SHAT HAS HIT THE FAN!" Moments? At most this series is at Seinen-Shounen-Shoujo-Adventure Level.

Umineko is not Higurashi, it may be by the same author but it is not and was never meant to be Higurashi 2.0 and in fact Higurashi's pacing wasn't much different then this in it's source material. It's first season was a horrible adaptation that cut out a lot in order to get to the killings faster, which isn't what Higurashi nor Umineko are about at all. This isn't slow paced at all, in fact it's paced very well, if you want slow try reading Beserk or HunterXHunter.
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Old 2009-11-12, 16:58   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Nochgo View Post
Just... too confused to make a comment =_=
Right now the story is mainly focusing on the events that occured in the world after episode 3 ended. There are three main story lines going on right now:
-Ange and Maria story line. Ange's memories include the stories that Maria wrote in her book.
-1998 story line. Ange is searching for answers to what happened on Rokkenjima on October 4-5, 1986. She is being helped by her former guard, Juuza, while being chased by her aunt Kasumi, who does not like Ange at all.
-Episode 4 story line. This new game board has barely started. Krauss and Natsuhi are trying to convince Kinzo to attend the conference due the suspicion raised by the other adults that he is actually already dead.
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Old 2009-11-12, 17:03   Link #115
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Umineko is not Higurashi, it may be by the same author but it is not and was never meant to be Higurashi 2.0 and in fact Higurashi's pacing wasn't much different then this in it's source material. It's first season was a horrible adaptation that cut out a lot in order to get to the killings faster, which isn't what Higurashi nor Umineko are about at all. This isn't slow paced at all, in fact it's paced very well, if you want slow try reading Beserk or HunterXHunter.
Or you could try watching Naruto... the slowest show I have ever seen...

(10 episodes for each battle is a minimum and when the whole show consists of constant fighting, it gets pretty boring after xxx episodes...)
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Old 2009-11-12, 17:51   Link #116
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There have been polls, and Ange usually ranks very highly which would mean that a lot of people actually enjoyed her part of 4. Really to even suggest that 80% of the fanbase dislikes the first half of Episode 4 is a stupid statement.
You can like Ange and still think EP4's first half was boring. Anyway, those polls were done by the Japanese. We're talking about the English fanbase not the Japanese.
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Old 2009-11-12, 18:30   Link #117
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Magic training scene was strange. You couldn't tell where it took place until they returned indoors. Yes, and that dormitory, don't you think it's rather small a building? It is supposed to be a prestigious boarding school. So I believe it wouldn't look like a big family house. It should be at least twice as larger.

They didn't mention that Ange had destroyed the stakes. There was just a glance at the classroom scene, and that was all. I think it's quite important to mention she gave up on magic, because otherwise you can't explain several things, like why she's unable to perform magic, etc. I'm just too lazy and sleepy to think of other examples.

Lambdadelta's "You were tricked" scene was most likely the biggest fail in this episode. I doubt that viewers got any shivers and felt with Ange/Gretel due to this lamely adapted scene. It lacked any emotional impact.

I haven't noticed much BGM. There was like one I heard that was from VN.

Seriously, what's up with that black space? I don't know if I remember it right, but wasn't Ange walking in the corridors of the mansion in the VN? Isn't this just another cutting down on background drawings, and primarily budget?

It might have been the episode I enjoyed the least so far.
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Old 2009-11-12, 18:49   Link #118
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Really? No one liked the Maria+Mama flashbacks? D': I thought they were really cute, and brought a slice of life-ish feeling to Maria's situation ;; Maria became one of my top favorite characters because of those scenes. The Ange-flashbacks however, where she gives money to people for info on shiz, were the boring parts to me (even though they were probably more significant to the plot, haha)

Anyways, this episode didn't make me feel super excited. I liked the Maria scenes, this time she wasn't tantrum crying, so it was really cute! I wanted so much to see Lambda's troll face though...how come only Maria and Beato are given troll faces in the anime? :< I didn't expect Mirage Coordinator of course...it doesn't get epic enough until well into the song. Plus, Deen hates Lambdadelta and only show her for about 10 seconds per important scene D:
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Old 2009-11-12, 19:04   Link #119
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The whole Lambda scene was ...

Well, I'm sure they just wanted to end the episode with a shocking scene like that with Ange learning the truth. What I'm thinking is, they'll play out the whole thing at the beginning of the next episode in a better way. Maybe even include miragecoordinator. It'd be the perfect time for it.

Also, I love the Maria+Rosa scenes. They get a lot better so I hope it comes later on and they didn't already cut them.
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Old 2009-11-12, 19:13   Link #120
Nochgo
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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Right now the story is mainly focusing on the events that occured in the world after episode 3 ended. There are three main story lines going on right now:
-Ange and Maria story line. Ange's memories include the stories that Maria wrote in her book.
-1998 story line. Ange is searching for answers to what happened on Rokkenjima on October 4-5, 1986. She is being helped by her former guard, Juuza, while being chased by her aunt Kasumi, who does not like Ange at all.
-Episode 4 story line. This new game board has barely started. Krauss and Natsuhi are trying to convince Kinzo to attend the conference due the suspicion raised by the other adults that he is actually already dead.
Hmm I see. So about that Maria talking with Beato and becoming an apprentice witch, when did you happen? Was that a past story seperate from the games? (so its assumed Maria and Beato had this meeting before all the games occured?)

The flashbacks to Ange's school (and ange and maria's story line) is a flashback of the 1998's storyline? And Ange was enrolled in a witch school?

So regarding Beato's change of face in game 3 was all a farce planned by the Beato's teacher? (this was some series mind****) Including Eva-Beato? So Eva-Beato was an existance created by Beato?

As for the current Ange trying to help out Battler, is that from the story line of 1998 after Ange already did all she can to figure out about the 1986 incident?

As for all these 'games' that's being going on, can we assume it as new realities each time? Like, restarting a game = going back to the past and doing October 4-5, 1986 over again. But then, the Battler of the first game would simply be and seperate entity from the reality. Asking what happens to this Battler should the game end, is probably going to be a spoiler so I won't ask (if its already revealed, that is).

And, I think these are the main questions I had. Thanks to anyone who answers these questions.
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