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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 22 16.54%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 16.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 33 24.81%
7 out of 10 : Good 29 21.80%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 12.03%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 5.26%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.75%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.75%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.75%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-11-15, 15:20   Link #201
Ithekro
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That is a good point. The historical typhoon that went through that region in 1986 started on September 30th. By the time the family is getting ready to go to the island some four days later, they'd know enough that the typhoon may stop them from going home for a day. But there were be no knowledge of this typhoon from more than six days before the murders happen.

Second, the point of Battler being on the island at all wasn't all that sudden, slightly unexpected, but there would be some advanced notice. However, Ange not being on the island was sudden. Therefore the letters had to have been written on or after October 3rd, 1986...or whoever wrote them knew Ange wouldn't be going to the island that year. Even then they couldn't have written the letters before say September 30th...since the typhoon wouldn't exist yet (assuming the real world typhoon is being used as the fictional one...since Typhoon Carmen did hit that region of the world on October 5th, 1986).
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Old 2009-11-15, 17:13   Link #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukito View Post
I don't think the messages are supposed to tell what actually happened at Rokkenjima, so it wouldn't matter if they don't fit. I think the culprit wrote these letters to confuse the public and the investigators of the crime, so that there would be these insane rumors about how a witch killed everyone with magic powers and now we/Battler have to now fight these rumors and find out what really happened. At least that's how I currently see Umineko.
That's more or less how I see the letters, too.
Of course we instantly imagine them being exactly what we were told in Episode 1 and 2 and people knowing Higurashi would instantly make the connection to a person knowing in advance what will happen because of metaphysical abilities.
Yet them being in diary form and telling of two different killing orders does not change the fact that they could be just a layout for the many possibilities the culprit laid out for his criminal masterpiece.

And recently a friend of mine found a fitting image for that in a japanese crime novel , it is like a multi-layer labyrinth, each version of the events making up a layer of the labyrinth. At certain points they are connected, but most importantly, each layer has exits, just they aren't the right one's.
I think it's quite similar here, having to find the 1 exit on 4 floors now, while we are given several exits (witch theory, individual episodes...), yet at the same time we always end up facing walls (red text).

I also had the idea that Beatrice builds up those 'games' from the truth's that start to arise in the future when people start to give explanations based on the clue's that could be discovered (bottle, evidence of a crime, missing bodies, witch legend, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That is a good point. The historical typhoon that went through that region in 1986 started on September 30th. By the time the family is getting ready to go to the island some four days later, they'd know enough that the typhoon may stop them from going home for a day. But there were be no knowledge of this typhoon from more than six days before the murders happen.

Second, the point of Battler being on the island at all wasn't all that sudden, slightly unexpected, but there would be some advanced notice. However, Ange not being on the island was sudden. Therefore the letters had to have been written on or after October 3rd, 1986...or whoever wrote them knew Ange wouldn't be going to the island that year. Even then they couldn't have written the letters before say September 30th...since the typhoon wouldn't exist yet (assuming the real world typhoon is being used as the fictional one...since Typhoon Carmen did hit that region of the world on October 5th, 1986).

That's quite true. Even in 1986 it shouldn't have been that hard to know about a typhoon's theoretical path some days before it actually hit the main land.
Well who knows, maybe the part about the typhoon was only added later to an actually existing plan to make it more foolproof...there are other ways to trap people on an island in 1986.
Mobile phones did exist in Japan in the 80's, but they had just been introduced to the public and I assume they were still far from practical or functionable. If we follow many old cellphone jokes from the 90's even then those phones broke down pretty often.
So trapping people on an island wouldn't be that hard in the 80's even without a typhoon, but the typhoon sure added to the plan.

I think Ange's absence is even easier to take care of. If somebody really didn't want her to come he could have just given her something to make her just as sick as to insure that her parents wouldn't take her along, considering her already frail condition.
We don't know that much about her constitution, but we can asume it involved feeling ill, vomiting and fever, things that can be reached by only slight poisining, especially with a young child.
So if somebody really bet on her not coming he could have just put something odd into her food, drink or among the medicine she was (supposedly) already taking.
This of course does not even have to apply if a familymember of her's is among the culprits or the culprit him/herself and wanted Ange to survive for some odd reason. Then either Kyrie or Rudolph or maybe both could have just made up that she was sick...it's not like any of the other parents would hire a doctor to double check on that.
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Old 2009-11-15, 17:30   Link #203
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I got the impression that Rudolf & family didn't meet up with the rest of the Ushiromiyas until the 4th. If so, then only Rudolf, Kyrie, Battler, or Kyrie's father could have sabotaged Ange in that way.

As for mobile phones, even if one of the characters had one, I doubt the phone would have had the range to reach Niijima.
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Old 2009-11-15, 18:26   Link #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
As for mobile phones, even if one of the characters had one, I doubt the phone would have had the range to reach Niijima.
I don't think cell phones were a public commodity back in the 80's as they were probably still being developed. Wasn't until the late 90's that they began popping up no?

Any theories including cellular phones in this series are most likely false regarding this.
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Old 2009-11-15, 18:45   Link #205
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
I don't think cell phones were a public commodity back in the 80's as they were probably still being developed. Wasn't until the late 90's that they began popping up no?

Any theories including cellular phones in this series are most likely false regarding this.
Yes. Cell phones were mostly brought up around the mid 90's (in ep 19 you can see Okonogi used a mobile when getting word about Kasumi). There is also no mention of any cell phones during any time, so I think it would be safe to say no one on the island had one. Maybe a walkie talkie or some kind of radio transceiver (which Genji probably used back in EP 1 to try and contact the police off the island) but yeah.

According to the game Ange got sick on October 3rd. It could be possible someone set her up, but at the same time the game states that Ange had a naturally weak immune system and normally got sick.
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Old 2009-11-15, 19:13   Link #206
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According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone there would have been cell phone service in 1986.
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Old 2009-11-15, 19:27   Link #207
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone there would have been cell phone service in 1986.
Even then those cell phones were huge and chunky. I doubt one could carry those in their pocket And again, on Rokkenjima I highly doubt you could get coverage, considering it IS an island with no type of towers.
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Old 2009-11-15, 19:59   Link #208
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Existing yes. In general use...no. Typical use of such a device was for corporate use. A cell phone in the 1980s was rather expensive, bulky, and limited in areas it worked. Though Japan does have one of the earliest systems, there shouldn't be any system that gets out into the Izu Islands. Even if Nii jima isn't all that far away. One generally didn't have a personal cell phone unless one was big into technology at the time. This family does not seem to be into technology very much.

Though I could see having a radio on the island somewhere to send out a signal, since that techology is older and not too out of line. That is isn't brought up suggest that they don't have it however...since after the phone wires are cut there seems to be no attempt to contact anyone off the island.
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Old 2009-11-15, 21:54   Link #209
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Though I could see having a radio on the island somewhere to send out a signal, since that techology is older and not too out of line. That is isn't brought up suggest that they don't have it however...since after the phone wires are cut there seems to be no attempt to contact anyone off the island.
I think back in the Episode 1 of the SN, someone asked Genji if they had any sort of radio or ship-signal on the island, and he said no.
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Old 2009-11-15, 22:05   Link #210
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Actually it is said in more than one Episode that Genji tried to used the radio but every time he says that it isn't working, suggesting that it was sabotaged.

So yes they have a radio.
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Old 2009-11-16, 04:26   Link #211
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While i appreciate the flow of events in this episode, i think the episode's a little bit dull.

Most likely because the sound novel portrayed Ange as a much more important character than in the anime. Here, she's just like an extra narrator to give us more background of Maria. 34's propose to her therefore seems lack of dramatic and suspended because "who care she's not an important piece anyway" thought D:

Yeah i haven't read the SN, but had a peak at that Golden land screen in the SN, and in this original source: if Ange's not there, no doubt Battler would have lost the game. What i understood back then is: Battler would still have signed it if Ange didn't rush in (we may argue that through); and since his mind started to stop denying witches, it seems the goat can just force a signature out of him and the deal would be set anyway. Also resist thunder bold formed from a chandelier, then can bash through layer of furniture's defenses to save Battler is also indeed awesome....


Out of topic, but sometime i feel sad at the level of budget for Umineko. It would be very cool to see screens when sea and sky suddently draw in, then an island rise up from the sea, and trees grasses, and the mansions just spring out of the ground.....in ANIMATION

PS: .... or when Eva's witch and human image flipped like on a broken television
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Old 2009-11-16, 07:17   Link #212
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
While i appreciate the flow of events in this episode, i think the episode's a little bit dull.

Most likely because the sound novel portrayed Ange as a much more important character than in the anime. Here, she's just like an extra narrator to give us more background of Maria. 34's propose to her therefore seems lack of dramatic and suspended because "who care she's not an important piece anyway" thought D:

Yeah i haven't read the SN, but had a peak at that Golden land screen in the SN, and in this original source: if Ange's not there, no doubt Battler would have lost the game. What i understood back then is: Battler would still have signed it if Ange didn't rush in (we may argue that through); and since his mind started to stop denying witches, it seems the goat can just force a signature out of him and the deal would be set anyway. Also resist thunder bold formed from a chandelier, then can bash through layer of furniture's defenses to save Battler is also indeed awesome....


Out of topic, but sometime i feel sad at the level of budget for Umineko. It would be very cool to see screens when sea and sky suddently draw in, then an island rise up from the sea, and trees grasses, and the mansions just spring out of the ground.....in ANIMATION

PS: .... or when Eva's witch and human image flipped like on a broken television
Exactly.
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Old 2009-11-16, 16:35   Link #213
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I liked this episode.
But isn't Umineko getting a bit..I don't know.
Peachy.
Like there used to be alot more kinda, horror and psycological thriller stuff and now it's teddybears?..
I'm not complaining, Sakutaro is cute.
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Old 2009-11-16, 16:36   Link #214
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it was a good episode.
hmmm but the story is going kinda slow?
hopefully after this arc, we can solve the mystery, as ryukishi07 said
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Old 2009-11-16, 17:31   Link #215
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There is just a lot of information that needs to be set on the table before we can get started with this game. When it starts ... it's going to be interesting.

Don't underestimate the potential brutality of teddy bears!!!! lol
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Old 2009-11-16, 17:31   Link #216
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Well there is that question..,why does Maria seem all psyco in the previous arcs? Yet here, in the past, with Sakutaro, she's all cute and stuff. Still into witchcraft, Beatrice, and all.

For everything there is a reason...or a red herring, since this is a mystery story.
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Old 2009-11-17, 02:51   Link #217
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Well there is that question..,why does Maria seem all psyco in the previous arcs?
Well, it the previous arcs, we've only seen her in the context of "Beatrice is here! Everyone's gonna die! YAAAAY!" Which is obviously going to color our perceptions of her a bit.

Mind you, there may be more behind it--Maria seemed to switch between being a rather inarticulate 9-year-old and using a LOT of big words depending on the circumstances.
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Old 2009-11-18, 09:06   Link #218
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Well, it the previous arcs, we've only seen her in the context of "Beatrice is here! Everyone's gonna die! YAAAAY!" Which is obviously going to color our perceptions of her a bit.

Mind you, there may be more behind it--Maria seemed to switch between being a rather inarticulate 9-year-old and using a LOT of big words depending on the circumstances.
Maria is not rosa's real daughter but a midget in disguise
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Old 2009-11-18, 10:49   Link #219
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Old 2009-11-18, 10:55   Link #220
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Tag your spoilers, Vegitto-kun.
To help the mod, i will personally request Klashikari to not do anything about your post

Because if Klashikari delete WWW' post , it will means Maria is not Rosa's real daughter *shocked*
But if Klashikari do not do anything, it may means up to ep 5, we still knows for sure Maria is Rosa's real daughter......

SO yeah let an anime watcher like me decide , and for sure no spoiler is leaked ^^
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