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Old 2009-11-18, 16:34   Link #1041
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
-Cruz figured out Satens powers(or knowledge he himself already has subcontious?) wisdom
-Cruz didnt get killed by Aruka's second attack, unknown why telekinesis
-Cruz broke out of the Lilith Temptation pre-Blades attack on Kuchinashi. So it was still active... not in the manga
-Cruz survived the final blast of the explosion unscratched unknown power
-Cruz survived a massive fall gravity & recognized Setsuna without seeing her!! Lol her panties, lol
(that last one is a joke ^^)

You tell me wich power of absorbing light can do those things....
Ultima fragment, my ass.
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Old 2009-11-18, 16:47   Link #1042
shadowii
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About Cruz's miracles/unexplained things.

-Cruz figured out Satens powers(or knowledge he himself already has subcontious?)
-Cruz didnt get killed by Aruka's second attack, unknown why
-Cruz broke out of the Lilith Temptation pre-Blades attack on Kuchinashi. So it was still active...
-Cruz survived the final blast of the explosion unscratched
-Cruz survived a massive fall & recognized Setsuna without seeing her!! Lol
(that last one is a joke ^^)

You tell me wich power of absorbing light can do those things....[/QUOTE]

Okay lets deal with this. only three out of six are valid
-Cruz figuered out Satens power because he is a very intelligent person. Thinking he'll become all powerful is one thing but do not diminish the great trait he has now.
-lilith temptation. One that really only happened in the anime, and the manga scene you were referenceing was a gag momment where eve was groggily waking up from a dream

The two falls and the holding Aruka back is substantial.
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Old 2009-11-18, 16:51   Link #1043
Sekirei07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
\
About Cruz's miracles/unexplained things.

-Cruz figured out Satens powers(or knowledge he himself already has subcontious?)
-Cruz didnt get killed by Aruka's second attack, unknown why
-Cruz broke out of the Lilith Temptation pre-Blades attack on Kuchinashi. So it was still active...
-Cruz survived the final blast of the explosion unscratched
-Cruz survived a massive fall & recognized Setsuna without seeing her!! Lol
(that last one is a joke ^^)

You tell me wich power of absorbing light can do those things....
Well in order:
If Cruz power is the absorption/creation/use of light that would be a type of conversion power like Saten's which is the absorption/use of Thermal energy so it would make since he could understand it on a subconscious level since it would use similar areas of the brain (since blade figured out how to use part of the fourth wave by absorbing Aruka's ability because it uses similar areas of the brain)

She probably stopped out of the animal instinct of fearing the danger of attacking him. She could probably sense something in Cruz has awakened. Thats why in the current arc she ignored him, gave him a window of survival. To see if he can become stronger and learn of his own powers.

Lilith Temptation controls the signals in the brain. Signals in the brain are made of Electron impulses, Electrons mare what make up light. So in theory if Cruz can control light, he can control the electron signals within his brain to correct himself.

Cruz could have absorbed some of the blast to protect himself, since it was an explosion of basically pure energy, and since light is a part of all energy (since light is electrons basically) Also he didnt come out it unscathed, as I recall he was out for a good while and he was half buried, also Mio bandaged him up too.

Cant fully explain the fall part though. The earths natural gravitational force has almost no affect on light. But than again it was just for kicks most likely and should not be looked into too deeply. I mean when Cruz "died" his heart stopped, and he was obviously not breathing, but not one person ever gave him CPR to keep oxygen going to his brain until Eve got to him. So tech he should have died than just from that.
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Old 2009-11-18, 17:02   Link #1044
Ca12nag3
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Ehm he fell from a greater hight then when he was clinging onto mios panties to not fall....
And hes unscratched. Even he looked up wondering (wtf).
Also im not saying Cruz aint smart but pre-knowledge could have benefitted him when figuring out Satens power.
What i said about Cruz waking up early from Lilith Temptation is true, after Setsuna shuved them only Cruz woke up. This is not cause of what Setsuna did. (now the anime does put more into it i know)
Granted if he has a absorbtion power he could absorb the blast. (but only saten holds that fragment) And no light fragment could do that.
The light fragment is a fan thought-up thing both the instance were Cruz died and came back you see a light aura, also when he wakes up from Lilith Temptation you see light around his eye in that palet. When he survived the blast you see light. This all could be pure symbolizm for him being the new 2nd. And could have absolutely nothing to do with a light fragment.
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Old 2009-11-18, 17:21   Link #1045
Sekirei07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
Ehm he fell from a greater hight then when he was clinging onto mios panties to not fall....
And hes unscratched. Even he looked up wondering (wtf).
Also im not saying Cruz aint smart but pre-knowledge could have benefitted him when figuring out Satens power.
What i said about Cruz waking up early from Lilith Temptation is true, after Setsuna shuved them only Cruz woke up. This is not cause of what Setsuna did. (now the anime does put more into it i know)
Granted if he has a absorbtion power he could absorb the blast. (but only saten holds that fragment) And no light fragment could do that.
The light fragment is a fan thought-up thing both the instance were Cruz died and came back you see a light aura, also when he wakes up from Lilith Temptation you see light around his eye in that palet. When he survived the blast you see light. This all could be pure symbolizm for him being the new 2nd. And could have absolutely nothing to do with a light fragment.
Saten's power is thermal conversion. His power deals with slowing down and than speeding up molecules, what Saten absorbs is that movement the molecules have and than forces other molecules to faster with that collective momentum. Light absorption would deal with only Electrons which are on a much smaller scale of matter than simply molecules.

Cruz being the new 2nd is more fan thought up, people want him to be some all powerful godlike being because he has been the weakest person throughout the series. I will state what the series has always said: The fundamental behind being a Needless is that each one has ONLY one fragment." The Second being the only exception.

Their is no religious meaning behind all this. He was called The Second because he performed godlike miracles for people that lived in a horrible and cruel world, how could he not be revered? He was called the Second because he was "like" the second coming of God. But in the end he was only a man and died. Which makes me wonder how did he die...

Cruz has never even had a vision of the Second or any kind of contact of any sort except Blade who is just a clone. The bases of him being the 3rd has literally no footholding.
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Old 2009-11-18, 17:32   Link #1046
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Just want to go over times Cruz has used his intelligence since i feel its being downplayed:

Spoiler for Cruz golden moments thus far:
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Old 2009-11-18, 17:39   Link #1047
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
Saten's power is thermal conversion. His power deals with slowing down and than speeding up molecules, what Saten absorbs is that movement the molecules have and than forces other molecules to faster with that collective momentum. Light absorption would deal with only Electrons which are on a much smaller scale of matter than simply molecules.

Cruz being the new 2nd is more fan thought up, people want him to be some all powerful godlike being because he has been the weakest person throughout the series. I will state what the series has always said: The fundamental behind being a Needless is that each one has ONLY one fragment." The Second being the only exception.

Their is no religious meaning behind all this. He was called The Second because he performed godlike miracles for people that lived in a horrible and cruel world, how could he not be revered? He was called the Second because he was "like" the second coming of God. But in the end he was only a man and died. Which makes me wonder how did he die...

Cruz has never even had a vision of the Second or any kind of contact of any sort except Blade who is just a clone. The bases of him being the 3rd has literally no footholding.
I have a question for you. Can you read japanese? Deny Cruz's connection with the Second is wrong, but it's even worse deny there's no religious meaning in Needless. The whole death and resurrection of Cruz in Needless is the same as the death and resurrection of Christ in the bible.

I'm not gonna believe someone who can't read japanese to the extent I can. Cruz has a link with Christ, that's fact, and Saten knows too.

But it's too late for you to deny manga facts. Cruz already used three different fragment powers after being brought back to life.

Light fragment, my ass.
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Old 2009-11-18, 17:50   Link #1048
shadowii
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Looks like we have theory war on our hands

frankly i like both theories due to various perks of both story wise.

everyone putting different reasons for the same material is great
but just remember , While it may look 101 percent crystal clear and obvious to whoever is arguing what the only person who can say what it is and it then be the truth is Kami Imai, and somehow i dont think hes going to put his two cents on this forum.
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Old 2009-11-18, 18:01   Link #1049
K. Shiruto
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Don't like saying things like that, but when someone denies something with so blatant arguments, it pisses me off.
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Old 2009-11-18, 18:25   Link #1050
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think chapter 12 when its translated will life some of the religious background for Cruz + Aruka. Well see...
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Old 2009-11-18, 18:32   Link #1051
K. Shiruto
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Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
think chapter 12 when its translated will life some of the religious background for Cruz + Aruka. Well see...
And Christ the second.
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Old 2009-11-18, 18:54   Link #1052
Sekirei07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
I have a question for you. Can you read japanese? Deny Cruz's connection with the Second is wrong, but it's even worse deny there's no religious meaning in Needless. The whole death and resurrection of Cruz in Needless is the same as the death and resurrection of Christ in the bible.

I'm not gonna believe someone who can't read japanese to the extent I can. Cruz has a link with Christ, that's fact, and Saten knows too.

But it's too late for you to deny manga facts. Cruz already used three different fragment powers after being brought back to life.

Light fragment, my ass.
Three different ones? What are those? Name them please.

Lets use some Cruz logic here to try and discover what his fragment is because thats what I have been trying to do.

Here's what we know about him that could link to what kind of fragment he has:
1. His sister is one of the most powerful fire needless (since genetics as seen with Blade play an important part in being a Needless)
2. He was able to survive a fall from a great distance without getting hurt, and was able to survive the PF Zero blast. But his arm was cut off by his sister so he is def not invulnerable. His arm was also dislocated by Hatfield so even after his revival he can still be hurt.
3. He is a very logical and reasonable person.
4. Lilith Temptation had only a temp affect on him.

Lets throw in the religious aspects.
The bible does not state of a coming AFTER the second coming of Christ.
God has always been said to be the light, and Christ himself was also called the light of the world. For Cruz to possibly have a light fragment makes sense in the religious aspect.

Aruka also stated: To use Fragments, especially very powerful ones, you must be able to unlock deep parts of the mind simultaneously. If Cruz could use every fragment like the second than their is 100% no way in hell he could not realize it. Its his own damn brain for goodness sake.

Also who the hell in this story hasnt practically come back from the dead being revived by eve?

Edit: also 1.5 years of studying Japanese so I DO know enough to get by, plus my roommate who is nationally Japanese can help fill in the rest, thanks.

Edit 2: also when Cruz died, HE WENT TO HELL!!!!!! remember?
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Old 2009-11-18, 19:08   Link #1053
shadowii
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^
To play mah-jong, which he apparently sucks at (or maybe blade's just really good)
Actually i never understood why they put Zakard in with Kafka and Uten, Kurumi would have made more sense.

Sekirei07; Kurusu and Ca12nag3 put a whole bunch of bible references earlier in this forum check somewhere between page 40-now.

Kurusu's three power examples were

Aruka's freeze moment: Ruri's telekinesis
Glowing hand: unknown power
surviving the fall in girl academy: Seto's gravitation

I should also mention that the ultima rumor has gone through several alterations since it was first put on wikipedia(actually i mentioned each time it did throughout the forum)

First it said that it was rumored that he had ultima and that it could manipulate energy in its purest form.
Then it was changed from "purest form" to light
Then for a brief time it was removed
Then the wording changed from rumored to shown, and no one has called it ultima yet so at least that phrasing is wrong.

also, correct me if i'm wrong but neither theory has any presence on the japanese wikipedia right

What i do like about the concept of power over Light is that it runs parallel to Aruka's power over Heat.

Last edited by shadowii; 2009-11-18 at 23:38.
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Old 2009-11-18, 22:23   Link #1054
Dragonkid11
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Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
Edit 2: also when Cruz died, HE WENT TO HELL!!!!!! remember?
Maybe there is no heaven or hell in Needless...so everybody who dead went together lol
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Old 2009-11-18, 23:30   Link #1055
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I think it's been brought up before, but I'm going to say that Cruz has no fragment. And for a simple reason:

A Fragment means it was a portion of the power that Christ the Second had... if Cruz has all the power (and not by some method like Zero- Zero only copies, while Cruz would have all the power from the get-go), then he is probably an Ultimate Needless... or as I'm going to start calling him, the Third
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Old 2009-11-18, 23:39   Link #1056
shadowii
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Maybe there is no heaven or hell in Needless...so everybody who dead went together lol
no the three dead guys say its hell in big bold letters after Cruz asks if its heaven.
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Old 2009-11-19, 01:41   Link #1057
kenjiharima
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No one pointed out Cruz's best moment?

Cross-Dressing.

Wonder if Cruz's real fragment powers is to turn into a female.
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Old 2009-11-19, 02:10   Link #1058
dukemon
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s a good theory that a dual personality Aruka esplicaria so that he could not kill a cross and left to escape the first time and when I was in the tower of Simeon detubo his body and opened the third time in a hole and decided not intervene for fear that personality aq interfere again so maybe trying to kill him for fear aq cross that personality has more influence on
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Old 2009-11-19, 02:14   Link #1059
dukemon
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for my cross and I do not have the fragment q 0 would Demacio monotone frangmento but if you have one very difficult to control as that of q by q asi Saten or disk could be detected by its rarity of the fragment
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Old 2009-11-19, 02:16   Link #1060
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jeje forgive if I do not write well but do not speak English is q i am using translators to read and write xd
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