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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 36 28.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 29.13%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 19.69%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 11.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 3.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 5 3.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 3.94%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-11-19, 10:31   Link #41
MeoTwister5
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Old 2009-11-19, 10:52   Link #42
lubczyk
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Does DEEN fix their animation goofs when they hit DVD or not? I know that Sunrise does, but I'm not sure about DEEN.

BTW, Awesome ep. I wish that a higher quality studio had done this series (and Higurashi) but at least DEEN is willing to do them at all.

Spoiler for Episode 21:


Man, I don't know what to think of Rosa anymore. I understand that it's hard to be a single mother and that she's looking for some companionship, but she should have made better arrangements involving Maria, plus she's obviously embarrassed about her lies and affairs.
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Old 2009-11-19, 10:54   Link #43
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OOISHI THE POLICEMAN

Yes.

I loved this episode.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:19   Link #44
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Just watched it, and man, what a good episode. I gave it a 9. Could have had a 10 if it weren't for the animation fail.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:29   Link #45
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in this episode it keeps flashing back to past and present of Maria and Ange. And it looks like at the end of the episode the old aunt wants to kill Ange.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:34   Link #46
lubczyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGMF-X10A View Post
in this episode it keeps flashing back to past and present of Maria and Ange. And it looks like at the end of the episode the old aunt wants to kill Ange.
Those must be AirSoft pistols. They have bloody yellow stars on them on goddness sake!!!
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:38   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
Those must be AirSoft pistols. They have bloody yellow stars on them on goddness sake!!!
so are those like paintball guns? O.o

It also seems that Maria says that Ange has some kind of anti magic toxin. This probably is the thing that would beat Beatrice.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:40   Link #48
lubczyk
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So are their three Anges as far as the anime is concerned?

1. Meta-Ange in the meta-world on the chessboard with meta-Beatrice and meta-Battler.

2. Piece Ange in 1986 in the past.

3. Piece Ange in 1998 twelve years after the murders.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:41   Link #49
June 1983
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Well, 1986 Ange is more just a flashback, so it's really like two Anges. Meta-Ange and real word 1998 Ange.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:44   Link #50
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
Well, 1986 Ange is more just a flashback, so it's really like two Anges. Meta-Ange and real word 1998 Ange.
Thanks. That straightens things out.
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:46   Link #51
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Also, it seems that Ange has finally accepted her delusions. I can't see that as a good thing, though.

How can she accept her imaginary friends while denying magic and witches, or is she just going to deny witches and not magic?
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:51   Link #52
June 1983
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As she said at the end of the episode, magic is real for those who believe in it. It is subjective.

I think the distinction lies in what Ange means by "magic". It's very different from what Beatrice means by "magic".
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Old 2009-11-19, 11:52   Link #53
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To be precise, that's not the Ange of 1986, it's the Ange of 1985 or before. That scene happened during a family meeting, and Ange (as it was stated in the first episode of the fourth arc) can't possibly join the one of 1986.
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Old 2009-11-19, 12:50   Link #54
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Guess DEEN concluded most of 1988 Ange 's scenes this episode. They are really rushing through all the scenes ><

As pointed out before, it was more unbelievable and shocking when Ange managed to summon all the seven sisters and Sakutarou on the boat. Kind of lack the dramatic emotion i felt during the game.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:12   Link #55
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Well that's one crazy old lady. Some reason with guys packing guns heading to the island think Ange's bodyguard is going to have a tough day.

Well the Stake's getting taken out certainly lost the surprise factor since it was mentioned almost every page from those worried it was going to be taken out. Still a pretty dramatic moment with Ange just losing it. No surprise considering the hell that school was. Forget asking the stakes I would have been tempted to just grab a desk and start swinging. At any rate stakes are a pretty likable group when they aren't on a killing spree . If they weren't being used as weapons they wouldn't be bad to be around.

Wow Rosa the wonder parent . Definitely in a tough spot with the single parent and taking that into account. But she couldn't afford to have someone watch over Maria? Leave the kid alone with only stuffed animals for comfort and get surprised that she talks to them? Plus way to go in terms of traumatizing your own child by ripping in half the only friend she has in the world....Personally surprised the lady didn't go calling the police or something. Rosa was going over the edge there.

Anyways I don't think Ange will have a great problem with her stance. The point here is to prove that magic wasn't responsible for the deaths on the island. Magic existing doesn't mean that humans weren't responsible for what happened. Besides Ange is just there to support Battler while he throws everything he can at Beatrice and try to win.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:33   Link #56
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That the lady does nothing suggests to me that the scene is fake. Maria's overreacting memory perhaps.

It's that Ange's other aunt...her mother's sister, rather than Eva (her father's sister).
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:37   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Well once again it's safe to say Eva's one crazy old lady. If she's actually planning on having Ange taken out certainly keeps her as the likely ringleader of that world's string of murders. Or maybe she just wants to take out the bodyguard so Ange will have no more support to run with.

Well the Stake's getting taken out certainly lost the surprise factor since it was mentioned almost every page from those worried it was going to be taken out. Still a pretty dramatic moment with Ange just losing it. No surprise considering the hell that school was. Forget asking the stakes I would have been tempted to just grab a desk and start swinging. At any rate stakes are a pretty likable group when they aren't on a killing spree . If they weren't being used as weapons they wouldn't be bad to be around.

Wow Rosa the wonder parent . Definitely in a tough spot with the single parent and taking that into account. But she couldn't afford to have someone watch over Maria? Leave the kid alone with only stuffed animals for comfort and get surprised that she talks to them? Plus way to go in terms of traumatizing your own child by ripping in half the only friend she has in the world....Personally surprised the lady didn't go calling the police or something. Rosa was going over the edge there.

Anyways I don't think Ange will have a great problem with her stance. The point here is to prove that magic wasn't responsible for the deaths on the island. Magic existing doesn't mean that humans weren't responsible for what happened. Besides Ange is just there to support Battler while he throws everything he can at Beatrice and try to win.
Umm that woman isn't Eva - that's Kasumi Sumadera, Ange's aunt from Kyrie's side :P Eva is dead by now in 1998.

Ange's stance is to prove magic didn't have anything to do with the crimes: it's not about denying magic, just about denying it's involvement with the murders. She does believe in magic herself though, although what exactly is 'magic' makes you wonder a little.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:21   Link #58
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Dude, Eva is dead. She died shortly after Ange first met Bernkastel. Ange mentions the funeral during her conversation with Okanogi. The silver haired woman chasing Ange in 1998 is Sumadora Kasumi, Kyrie's little sister.

Of coarse you could have been speculating that Eva's shambling corpse is manipulating Kasumi from the shadows and plotting to take over the world or something, in which case I stand corrected. (Actually, that would make for a pretty weird plot twist now that I think about it, as that would mean you could explain all the murders with "zombie attack" and be done with it.)

Moving on, Ithekro makes a good point. All of the Maria/Rosa flashbacks have been thrice filtered and can hardly be called "unbiased". Memories are not always the most accurate and Maria may not have been entirely honest in her depiction of events (Ange suspected that Maria may have been selective in what she chose to remember in an earlier scene). It would be best to assume, at least for now, that there are parts of the picture that Maria didn't get to see and give Rosa the benefit of the doubt. Not too much doubt mind you, that bitch already deserves to have her parenting license revoked for the things we can confirm. But still, got to keep things in perspective.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:24   Link #59
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Why so sinister? ¯\(º_o)/¯ Don't do drugs, Takano, it's not healthy.


Scream louder, you creepy kid.

Needs more Battler. Always needs more Battler. Maria and Ange playing with their useless magical friends is boring.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:36   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That the lady does nothing suggests to me that the scene is fake. Maria's overreacting memory perhaps.
As far as I know Rosa does not do anything that calls for 'calling the cops', at least in the 80's...I'm not to good concerning modern Japanese child protection laws, but around that time it may have been deemed improper to discipline children through violence, but it wasn't as a severe case as it is today.

That woman there was from the service of child protection, so the police officer went quite far to tell the truth. Rosa could have been placed with charges of neglecting her child, but we can see that that lady is seriously running low on options to charge Rosa on anything.
Maria is neither in a bad physical state nor is she visibly hurt as it seems, Rosa is providing her with a home, food and a good education...back then as far as I'm informed that was what parenting was about, child protection was still a growing (but relatively small) field.
There are theories around even today, if that woman would have taken Maria away without any hesitation it could have broken Maria even more, because she clearly loves her MOTHER Rosa...and as long as the child is not asking to be taken away herself, there's not much to do.
And of course Japan is still very heavily influenced by respect in front of home privacy. Rosa forced her out, so in the end she had to get out...I think that lady already pushed to the limits by not going directly when Rosa asked.
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