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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 36 28.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 29.13%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 19.69%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 11.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 3.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 5 3.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 3.94%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-11-19, 17:41   Link #61
KaneDragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That the lady does nothing suggests to me that the scene is fake. Maria's overreacting memory perhaps.
But Maria isn't even *cough* being regularly beaten by an alcoholic uncle. This is tender love and care in comparison.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:45   Link #62
momobunny
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
But Maria isn't even *cough* being regularly beaten by an alcoholic uncle. This is tender love and care in comparison.
It's not as bad... but that doesn't make it any less confusing or bad in itself. This case is pretty difficult since Rosa and Maria are mother and daughter and they still have good times together. Rosa isn't always abusive towards Maria and she's not as terrible as Satoko's uncle. This leaves a connection between them, so Rosa can't just be arrested and call it a happy ending. Something else has to be done so that they can both live happily together. But it doesn't really work if one of them isn't willing to, in this case it's Rosa.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:45   Link #63
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Well yeah you can assume that Ryukishi's opinion of the social worker system isn't very high.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:53   Link #64
Workworkwork
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Well yeah you can assume that Ryukishi's opinion of the social worker system isn't very high.
And that he's a sexist if he doesn't leave Rosa just as miserable as Teppei in the end.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:53   Link #65
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Gah. What a way to deliver an episode. Start it off all funny and then present a string of crushing blows. D=

What the hell is wrong with Rosa? God damn she's starting to tick me off now. And when she ripped Sakutarou in two that's when I lost it. Shame she's probably wealthy being a CEO and all, so she could just bribe her way out of any court case. >=/

Ange's part with the Stakes pretty much proved that magic exists only if you're willing to believe in it, and it's good to see Sakutarou's furniture form isn't gone. I'm starting to grow attached to the fella.~

And who is the woman at the end of the episode? Whoever she is, seems like she has plans for Ange and Amakusa.

Oh btw, anyone else spot the Higurashi refrence? The name of the boat Ange and Amakusa was on was named "The Hanyuu Maru". =p
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:15   Link #66
chounokoe
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
What the hell is wrong with Rosa? God damn she's starting to tick me off now. And when she ripped Sakutarou in two that's when I lost it. Shame she's probably wealthy being a CEO and all, so she could just bribe her way out of any court case. >=/
Well, no. XD
If you remember Episode 1, it became rather clear that everybody is in serious need of money, because they are all facing going bankrupt in the closer future.
Well considering Rosa is wearing her own designs I can see why she's going bankrupt...

Quote:
And who is the woman at the end of the episode? Whoever she is, seems like she has plans for Ange and Amakusa.
Right now I don't remember if they already clearly stated it in the anime, as it was already known in the VN at that point, so I'll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler for White haired lady:
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:18   Link #67
Jan-Poo
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Well the hair color doesn't necessarily mean something, or you'd have to think Juuza and Kasumi are blood related.

...

Not like this hasn't been speculated already...
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:23   Link #68
SilverSyko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
Well, no. XD
If you remember Episode 1, it became rather clear that everybody is in serious need of money, because they are all facing going bankrupt in the closer future.
Well considering Rosa is wearing her own designs I can see why she's going bankrupt...
It's been a while so I don't remember. Good to know then.


Quote:
Spoiler for White haired lady:
Ah alright, thank you.
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:29   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well the hair color doesn't necessarily mean something, or you'd have to think Juuza and Kasumi are blood related.

...

Not like this hasn't been speculated already...
Well nothing is denied so far.
And it would explain him coming out of the blue like prince charming.
I'm still not trusting him...
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:32   Link #70
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So, now we've seen the events that made Maria the adorable little ball of Crazy she's been in every previous arc. Poor kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
And that he's a sexist if he doesn't leave Rosa just as miserable as Teppei in the end.
Rosa's died in every single arc so far, and I doubt this one will break that streak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Gah. What a way to deliver an episode. Start it off all funny and then present a string of crushing blows. D=
Higurashi was like that, too. Watch first episode of any random arc, and you'd probably think it was a comedy series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
What the hell is wrong with Rosa?
She's a single mother, she's under a lot of stress with her business having problems, and she's got serious anger-management issues. She's got three ways of dealing with Maria, and they ALL suck: overindulgent, neglectful, and abusive.

Rosa's pathologically unsuited to be a mother, and she KNOWS it.
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Old 2009-11-19, 18:53   Link #71
maximilianjenus
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Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
Well, no. XD
If you remember Episode 1, it became rather clear that everybody is in serious need of money, because they are all facing going bankrupt in the closer future.
Well considering Rosa is wearing her own designs I can see why she's going bankrupt...
dude light up, it's the 80s that alone makes the clothing 400% less awful than it looks now.

As a standalone chapter, this was kinda boring, but as a novel adaptation it was great and amazing as I found myself almost sleeping at those parts of the novel; probably the only arc improved by deen.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:01   Link #72
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That style would be hip in 1985. I'm thankful she's not into American 80s hair style.

Since I'm basically the age Maria would be if she was real (and lived), I can remember some of those styles.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:09   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
To be precise, that's not the Ange of 1986, it's the Ange of 1985 or before. That scene happened during a family meeting, and Ange (as it was stated in the first episode of the fourth arc) can't possibly join the one of 1986.
The Ange of 1985? Are you taking about the scene with little her talking to Maria?

There's only 2 Agne's in existence, aren't there? The Ange of 1998, with her flashbacks to previous times, and is currently on the run and being hunted by Kyrie's little sister, and meta-Ange, who arose from this Ange, but is on the meta-plane as Grettel.

There shouldn't be an Ange of 1986 that exists with the others yet because the game hasn't been won yet... though of course she did exist in 1986, just away from all the events that surrounded Rokkenjima.

And why do the Sisters tell 1998 Ange that she's going against Beatrice, and raise the idea about her contradicting herself by trying to prove magic doesn't exist while acknowledging their existence? She's not meta-Ange, the one trying to help Battler against Beatrice isn't she? Only the one from the 1998 world that is trying to figure out the mystery of how everyone died? So how could she be aware of such a thing going on?
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:29   Link #74
Ithekro
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Perhaps she is both, just at different times. Ange is seen busting in on Beatrice and Virgilia's attempt to get Battler to sign las arc, we also see her jumping that episode. Next time we see her is with Battler in Meta, she then starts having flashbacked because of something said about Maria and Rosa. This would imply that Meta-Ange is the 1998 Ange, just she's not left yet to become Meta-Ange. Or perhaps she gets thrown back to 1998 at some point we've not yet seen from Meta to find out more information so she can help her poor incompetent older brother.

The only Ange we can confirm as being where she's suppose to be is 1980/81-1986 Ange. She's in the past and is only seen in reflection. Her last know location is on October 3rd, 1986...she was left home because she was ill and didn't go to the island with Kyrie, Rudolf, and Battler.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:32   Link #75
Jan-Poo
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Yes I was talking about that scene, now it's not like you necessarily need to think they are separated existences. It's just the Ange of the past but it's the same Ange of the 1998.

About Ange knowing about the game and all... well... it depends on what you believe...

Do you believe the scene where Ange talks to Bern at the top of the skyscraper is true?

If yes, then that's how Ange learned of the game. Bern told her.
If not, then even the Ange that talks about that is false.

The real mindfuck is in the metaworld, where Mammon (as Beatrice's furniture) remembers the things she did with Ange in 1998.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:43   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The real mindfuck is in the metaworld, where Mammon (as Beatrice's furniture) remembers the things she did with Ange in 1998.
Does this imply that the metaworld is timeless?

Furthermore, you could even propose absurd situations such as 'the games happen in a different order than we are shown,' and that only the metaworld is 'chronological'.

Last edited by Arachanox; 2009-11-19 at 19:55.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:49   Link #77
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Episode 3 ange (1998 ange) will become meta ange once she dies, be it old age, accident, etc.. it does not matter.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:50   Link #78
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Time-Space has no meaning in Meta it would seem.
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:50   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachanox View Post
Does this imply that the metaworld is timeless? I have read the prologue to EP5, and

Spoiler for EP5 prologue:


Furthermore, you could even propose absurd situations such as 'the games happen in a different order than we are shown,' and that only the metaworld is 'chronological'.
Well I right now see the metaworld as some kind of super-dimensional virtual-reality cinema, where people can sit down and enjoy the game and are (maybe...though not confirmed) able to interfere to a certain extent.
It is just a matter of the gamemaster choosing wether it is allowed to hit the pause button or not (Beato mostly did when Battler was out weeping).
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Old 2009-11-19, 19:57   Link #80
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It is a given that since Meta-Ange comes from 1998, then the metaworld is timeless. The problem is that Mammon isn't coming from 1998, or at least she's not supposed to. I mean Ange is there because Bern personally picked her from 1998. But the Mammon in the metaworld shouldn't be coming from there.

Just being in the metaworld doesn't give you insight of the future events, Meta- Battler for example doesn't know a thing.
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