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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 36 28.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 29.13%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 19.69%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 11.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 3.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 5 3.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 3.94%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-11-19, 20:02   Link #81
Arachanox
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Perhaps Ange brought Mammon with her, since she had 'control' over Mammon as furniture? That would mean that there are two Mammons in the Metaworld, but it is not implausible; it just means that we never saw them both in the same place at the same time.
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Old 2009-11-19, 20:14   Link #82
Jan-Poo
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If she brought Mammon from the future, then that Mammon should be the Mammon of a world where the only Beatrice alive is Ange-Beatrice who received the tittle from Eva who in turn received the title from Beato.
Such a Mammon therefore should only be tied to Ange-Beatrice, However the Mammon we seen definitely says that she is serving Beato though she retains all the memories of the future, at least to the point Ange "killed" her in that sad day at Saint Lucia School.
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Old 2009-11-19, 21:01   Link #83
AmyElizzabeth
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Maria is the new Rena.
Spoiler for It's official:

Damn...loved this episode! And I can never remember all of the Stakes names, cause they're so damn long
Also, can't wait for the next episode. I wonder if It'll have...
Spoiler for Spoilers:
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Old 2009-11-19, 21:13   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
Maria is the new Rena.
Spoiler for It's official:
I admit she has the anger face and the cute side down, but we still need a billhook.

I WAN MAH BILLHOOK. >=(
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Old 2009-11-19, 21:27   Link #85
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Is Beatrice's golden stick thingy good enough?
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Old 2009-11-19, 21:41   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
Is Beatrice's golden stick thingy good enough?
Nah, a scepter can't cut through flesh. D=

And nobody try mentioning Kanon. He's not worthy of wielding the billhook. >=T
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Old 2009-11-19, 22:11   Link #87
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Only few people are.
Anyway, DAMN IT DEEN. SHOULD AHVE PUT THE BGM "THANK YOU FOR BEING BORN DURING THAT SCENE.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
*shot*
Other than that, very emotional episode.
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Old 2009-11-19, 22:26   Link #88
Arkwright
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Yes I was talking about that scene, now it's not like you necessarily need to think they are separated existences. It's just the Ange of the past but it's the same Ange of the 1998.

About Ange knowing about the game and all... well... it depends on what you believe...

Do you believe the scene where Ange talks to Bern at the top of the skyscraper is true?

If yes, then that's how Ange learned of the game. Bern told her.
If not, then even the Ange that talks about that is false.

The real mindfuck is in the metaworld, where Mammon (as Beatrice's furniture) remembers the things she did with Ange in 1998.
Maybe the anime might have treated the scene differently, I didn't really think it was weird when I read it in the original.

From my understanding, the name "Beatrice" and the theory of "a witch did it" were known to the public, and Ange was on a journey to find the truth of what happened, so she was in a way going against Beatrice. (This way it's also not necessarily a problem for her to say magic might exist, this version of Ange won't mind if that's the truth.)
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Old 2009-11-19, 22:47   Link #89
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IIRc, 1998 ange is quite sure that it was eva's doing, but she still has a few doubts on that, so she wants to find proof of eva doing it.
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Old 2009-11-19, 22:57   Link #90
Marion
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Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
Only few people are.
Anyway, DAMN IT DEEN. SHOULD AHVE PUT THE BGM "THANK YOU FOR BEING BORN DURING THAT SCENE.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
*shot*
Other than that, very emotional episode.
Honestly that music wouldn't have fit, in my opinion. It's sad but yeah idk I always thought the music choice for that scene was odd in the VN.
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Old 2009-11-19, 23:34   Link #91
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I loved it.
It fit how she was feeling: Sad, depressed, upset...I would have killed those girls If I were there
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Old 2009-11-19, 23:57   Link #92
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I was at a loss for words for a while. It's a very good episode; with the Stakes falling apart to be very painful to watch. Sorta makes me wonder about the true nature of them especially with Mammon being the only one that was utterly fearless and loyal while being denied while still being able to speak her mind. I sorta wanted to see another bloodbath here but Ange's disbelief was too strong. Then again, by now we should know that in the When they Cry universe that violence merely causes more.

Rosa... wtf is her problem!? :O Actually this has been the case throughout the series, but then again Maria's diary is hardly objective going from 100% happiness and bliss to 100% sadness and anger. But then again a young child would only see these things in black and white. (hell, adults do too!) The murderous look on her face. Uh oh... now that's really scary. And what's with the winged backpack? Maria's gonna be the evil version of Ayu?

The last part with the old woman and her henchmen collecting weapons to probaly knock out Ange didn't really interest me too much. But it's not too big of a deal. I'll stamp this episode with a 9.

So this has been going along quite well for episode 4, where things seem relevant instead of throwing random crap on the screen. But with only a couple of episodes left, can they really wrap this half of the story up without making it a rushed mess? Well they'd better; I'll just be pissed if there's no second season.
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Old 2009-11-20, 01:06   Link #93
kuro_usagi
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After watched this episode, I'm kinda confused about Maria-Rosa's relationship...
In episode 20, at scene where Rosa drying Maria's hair & some other scenes from previous episode, the two seem in pretty good term.
Sakutaro's ripping in episode 21 (which upseted Maria & made her hates Rosa) should happened before they go to Rokkenjima..but, why in every game she always shown in friendly (or at least, not as bad it supposed to be after ep 21 event) term with her mama? She never mention/ flashbacked about Sakutaro in previous game either...O.O
In every game, she acted almost like Sakutaro incident never happened & her relationship with Rosa remained the same before the incident at ep 21...

Last edited by kuro_usagi; 2009-11-20 at 01:17.
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Old 2009-11-20, 01:35   Link #94
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Rosa is easy to lose temper but after that she feel sorry for what she's done.
And Maria thinks that Rosa in rage mode is not her mother, but a evil witch who possessed her.
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Old 2009-11-20, 01:36   Link #95
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Do you believe the scene where Ange talks to Bern at the top of the skyscraper is true?
Ah yes, I forgot about that scene... safety net huh

The meeting took place, but it would be a magical event in line with all the other magical events were seeing in 1998's story, and in line with all the events of magic we see throughout the series. So it's still a part of the question of 'did this and all the other events with the Sisters and Maria really happen, or is Ange due for the wards.'

But Bernkastel had to pull an Ange to bring her to the 1986 chessboard (when she saw off the families) + Purgatorio... and I can't really wrap myself around the idea that they're the same person...

So there should still be an explanation of how a Meta-Ange appeared in Purgatorio with Battler... unless of course, she's a fake again like Eva-Beatrice. But she seems too heavy a character to suddenly leave like that at the end of this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The problem is that Mammon isn't coming from 1998, or at least she's not supposed to.
Ah yes, this. I wondered about that greatly last ep, but I guess I forgot to bring it up.

I suppose the timelessness notion makes sense... they're all existing there at the moment, but doesn't mean that they were summoned in the time frame that they first appeared on stage. Perhaps their latest versions... and since Battler never really lived pats 1986, he never knew of the world beyond that. The same would not necessarily hold true for magical beings and their re-occurrence.
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Old 2009-11-20, 01:58   Link #96
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The opening scene with Ange was just done perfectly. Couldn't have asked for more. The Maria scene after, which almost had me crying in the VN, was also done really well. This episode was just great.

If you didn't hate Rosa before, you will now.
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Old 2009-11-20, 02:13   Link #97
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
It's not as bad... but that doesn't make it any less confusing or bad in itself. This case is pretty difficult since Rosa and Maria are mother and daughter and they still have good times together. Rosa isn't always abusive towards Maria and she's not as terrible as Satoko's uncle. This leaves a connection between them, so Rosa can't just be arrested and call it a happy ending. Something else has to be done so that they can both live happily together. But it doesn't really work if one of them isn't willing to, in this case it's Rosa.
Finally, someone who understands.

If Rosa is to overcome the malevolence that overtakes her oh so frequently, something big needs to happen.
Spoiler:
I feel that a character who understands fully and exactly what's going on between them is the only one capable of guiding them, and at this point, only one person comes to mind...

My point being is that this is a trial for Maria and Rosa, and though the outcome grows increasingly bleak, their love, while seemingly nonexistant, still has the potential to shine through in the end. Until then, Maria will not stop searching for it. And we Umineko veterans know how Maria handles looking for something that seemingly isn't there.
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Old 2009-11-20, 02:17   Link #98
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by Shamisen View Post
The opening scene with Ange was just done perfectly. Couldn't have asked for more. The Maria scene after, which almost had me crying in the VN, was also done really well. This episode was just great.

If you didn't hate Rosa before, you will now.
I choose to pity Rosa.

Be it a witch or a psychological disorder, what is certain is that she is a slave to dark emotions. And for that, I pity her.
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Old 2009-11-20, 02:19   Link #99
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Nah, a scepter can't cut through flesh. D=

And nobody try mentioning Kanon. He's not worthy of wielding the billhook. >=T
Need I remind you what Evatrice did to Nanjo?
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Old 2009-11-20, 02:23   Link #100
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I was at a loss for words for a while. It's a very good episode; with the Stakes falling apart to be very painful to watch. Sorta makes me wonder about the true nature of them especially with Mammon being the only one that was utterly fearless and loyal while being denied while still being able to speak her mind. I sorta wanted to see another bloodbath here but Ange's disbelief was too strong. Then again, by now we should know that in the When they Cry universe that violence merely causes more.

Rosa... wtf is her problem!? :O Actually this has been the case throughout the series, but then again Maria's diary is hardly objective going from 100% happiness and bliss to 100% sadness and anger. But then again a young child would only see these things in black and white. (hell, adults do too!) The murderous look on her face. Uh oh... now that's really scary. And what's with the winged backpack? Maria's gonna be the evil version of Ayu?

The last part with the old woman and her henchmen collecting weapons to probaly knock out Ange didn't really interest me too much. But it's not too big of a deal. I'll stamp this episode with a 9.

So this has been going along quite well for episode 4, where things seem relevant instead of throwing random crap on the screen. But with only a couple of episodes left, can they really wrap this half of the story up without making it a rushed mess? Well they'd better; I'll just be pissed if there's no second season.
Well, they just covered half of the VN arc in less than half of an anime arc. The pacing of the next episodes shouldn't be too disappointing.

It only pains me to know that we may not see a second season for another year or two. Then again, by the time this season finishes up, EP6 will be just about out.
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