AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Fullmetal Alchemist

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-11-16, 16:28   Link #1101
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziziphus View Post
I think going through the gate is all that you need to become a sacrifice, as long as you're an alchemist (ie. Hohenheim), Ling and Envy don't know anything about alchemy so that doesn't count. I assume one must have enough alchemic knowledge first hand to be able to meet Truth at the other side of the gate.
That being said, I wonder if that was actually Homunculus's purpose for creating Gluttony. Envy once said that Gluttony is a failed recreation of the Gate of Truth. I wonder if he was attempting to duplicate his own gate so that other potential sacrifices would see it and ultimately become actual sacrifices.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 09:27   Link #1102
GrahamAker
狙撃する準備ができ
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: in someone's heart!!!
Age: 25
Send a message via Yahoo to GrahamAker Send a message via Skype™ to GrahamAker
i am still confused about the xing alchemy and amestris one ? whats special about the xing one ? it works agaainst father also!
__________________
GrahamAker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 13:00   Link #1103
Vicious108
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
It worked against Father because he didn't even know it existed and thus was unable to disable it.
Vicious108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 14:02   Link #1104
Sannom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhus12
whats special about the xing one ?
We're still into speculations at this point, and I'm not even sure we're ever going to have a clear explanation. I personnaly believe that Xing and Amestris' alchemy both use a "stream" of soul energy, except that the one used in Amestris is artificial and fueled by Father's philosopher's stone, while the Xing one is natural, fueled by the soul energy of every person who died in the world, and whose soul wasn't "captured" by some alchemy circle like the one used for the philosopher's stone.

After all, Arakawa did say that she gave the first anime team details about her universe and ending...
Sannom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 15:48   Link #1105
Sannom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
Wasn't it said in one chapter, that Amestris' alchemy uses energy from the earth (like geothermal energy)?
Yeah, Marcoh said it, but it was almost immediately put into doubt by May Chang, who felt something else underneath them. The equations for using alchemy were probably brought in Amestris by Father, and it is probable that he lied to them about where the energy came from.
Sannom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 18:56   Link #1106
GaimeGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Which actually brings me to a question which is bugging me for a while: Where did father even get his knowledge (of alchemy) from?
We were shown that he was nothing but a creation of Hohenheim's owner, but he had knowledge nobody in Xerxes seemed to have.



Wasn't it said in one chapter, that Amestris' alchemy uses energy from the earth (like geothermal energy)? Maybe Xing's alchemy is simply based on multiple energy sources.
I just wonder when exactly Ed and Al will find the time to learn this type of alchemy.
I'm pretty sure that the following things hold:
1. The alchemy used in Xing is the same (or at least, a similar) version of the alchemy used in Xerxes. It uses the energy of the planet, or of leftover soul-energy from those who have passed on. Something like that.
2. The alchemy used in Armestris primarily differs from that used in xing/xerxes in that it uses Father as an energy source. It does seem to be easily adaptable to "real" alchemy, because the array on Scar's right arm is based off of Armestris's alchemy, which his brother noted was odd. Most likely, what Scar's brother found to be odd about the alchemy was that it seemed to use energy from a single isolated source, something other than the planet that didn't seem like it should be able to provide all that energy, or would be as flexible in range as eastern alchemy, and so he modified the armestris-based array which ended up as Scar's right arm it to use energy from the planet, like the eastern forms of alchemy, instead.
3. Father/Homunculis came from the gate. He was not "created," but rather "retrieved," and has some kind of connection to The Truth (don't their grins/eye things look kind of similar?). Hence why he has so much knowledge (or,at least, he had some knowledge about some specific things like how to open the gate, and has accumulated tons of knowledge over the centuries, like Hohenheim... he just knew some alchemy and how to open the gate because he came from it.)

At least, that's what I think.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's more to Roy's alchemy than he's revealed.
GaimeGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-18, 19:24   Link #1107
wandering-dreamer
reads too much
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: you know that's a great question.....
Wait, so if the energy comes from Father, does that mean that Armestris alchemists are going to be SOL when he is finally killed off?
wandering-dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-19, 02:54   Link #1108
ChronoReverse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
IF it is really the case, then that's the logical conclusion.
ChronoReverse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-19, 16:39   Link #1109
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I don't think this is true. IMHO the alchemy of Xerxes was the same one now used in Amestris and the only one father (and Hohenheim) knows.
It was explained, that the people of Xing modified the alchemy which was teached to them (the one from Xerxes) to fit to their knowledge of nature. Father was totally surprised that they were able to use alchemy so he had no knowledge of it. If he knew it, he shouldn't be surprised, especially when dealing with foreigners.
How do we know the alchemy used in Xerxes is the same as the one used in Amestris? Sure, with Homunculus's influence, the people of Xerxes created the philosopher's stone. But there's nothing to actually indicate that Amestris and Xerxes used exactly the same kind of alchemy. I'm more tempted to believe that Alchemy itself is separated by a Dark and Light side. The Dark side abuses the energy of human beings that are used as sacrifice for their procedures. They use energy from the Earth's crust. Xingese alchemy uses a different, more mystical energy. Rather than use energy expelled by humans as they become part of the Earth's surface, they use the life force that connects living beings together. Scar's brother described this before as the power that connects humans through their emotions. If positive emotions come from one human, it spreads and that emotion is reciprocated, flowing throughout all the people and vice versa in the case of negative emotions. That is the power Xingese alchemy uses, completely different from Amestrian alchemy. That is why Homunculus could not disable Scar's and Mai's alchemy.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-19, 16:40   Link #1110
wandering-dreamer
reads too much
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: you know that's a great question.....
So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
wandering-dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-19, 17:41   Link #1111
Haladflire65
Senior Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Normandy SR-2
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
That would be interesting but not very Shounen... I think FMA might ultimately follow the rules of its genre and have a happy ending to some extent. If Ed and Al don't get their bodies back by the end of the series, why did Arakawa have to bother with her 100-and-something-chapter, nearly-10-years-in-the-making epic, anyways? Every plot summary of FMA only mentions that the whole story is the story of two brothers searching for a way to get their bodies back; I think having it end any other way might defeat the whole manga's purpose. In conclusion, I'm predicting that some characters might be killed off in the process, but Ed and Al will be able to fufill their long quest in the end.
__________________
Haladflire65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-20, 06:41   Link #1112
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
Homunculus may not be of help, but remember that Hohenheim is there. He may sacrifice his own power to his sons so they can get their bodies back. Call it redemption on his part for leaving his wife and children, and not being with his wife when she died. That's what I'm guessing after all, and it would fit that dark theme FMA has as well, but it ultimately leads to a good ending.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-20, 11:14   Link #1113
Krazzy Angel
despair v/s hope
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the realm of thoughts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
But if it's true I wonder which gate he came from. We could see that Al's gate looks different from Ed's. I think that "the truth" may be different for everyone, or that there are at least multiple different gates. Maybe even 5, which would explain why father needs 5 persons to open the (a) gate simultaneously.
I think Arakawa said in an interview that the Truth is different for each person, it is a like a mirror of that person.

But the theory for different gates? ehhh I thought that there were two gates are one was from where Ed cam i.e. the fake gate. If there were many gates then what on its other side also is different? Which would mean that each individual opening the gate gains different knowledge??

@ Yoko Takeo: I don't think Ed and Al would approve using Hohemheim. Remember Hohemheim once asked Ed if he still wanted to use the philosopher's stone they seeked for so long? Ed refused. They might be unwilling to use the energy of the souls of Xerxes.

I think Al already got back his body. Ed only have to drag/snatch his body parts from the Truth guy. Afterwards they can fight Father.

I am curious on how they will be able to win against a philosopher's stone?? Well only Arakawa can come up with a brilliant idea to wrap the last chapters beautifully.

Possible deaths: Izumi, Roy, Wrath, Pride.
Father can be sent back from where he came i.e. the other side of the gate.
__________________
Far away from the hectic world I close my eyes to remember the past days... I still hope to see you again...
Krazzy Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-20, 13:12   Link #1114
Sannom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Where was it said that Xing modified their alchemy??? The only thing I remember about modifying is Scar's brother using his knowledge of Amestris' alchemy to modify the Xingese alchemy he learned about and which reminded him of his people's faith in Ishbala.
Sannom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-20, 19:11   Link #1115
GaimeGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Plus, remember that Father brought alchemy to Armestris, and Hohenheim brought it to Xing.
GaimeGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-21, 09:04   Link #1116
Sannom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
According to F, their alchemy before the Sage of the West came to them was really limited, they notably thought that mercury would give them eternal life. I'm not even sure we can call that "modify", more like "expand a lot"
Sannom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-22, 04:12   Link #1117
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Well, it was said that both Amestris and Xing got their knowledge of alchemy from Xerxes. And it was explicitly stated that Xing modified theirs. However nobody mentioned that Amestris did any changes, so logically it should still be the same.
Those must have been some radical changes since their alchemy went from being war-orientated to medicine-orientated. A few changes doesn't cause the style of alchemy to be completely transformed. What I'm saying is that Xerxes most likely was a mix of Amestrian and Xingese Alchemy, but Xing modified theirs to focus more on medicine rather than combat like Amestrian Alchemy is.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-23, 02:10   Link #1118
quigonkenny
WRYYYYY!!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Elkia
Age: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazzy Angel View Post
I think Arakawa said in an interview that the Truth is different for each person, it is a like a mirror of that person.

But the theory for different gates? ehhh I thought that there were two gates are one was from where Ed cam i.e. the fake gate. If there were many gates then what on its other side also is different? Which would mean that each individual opening the gate gains different knowledge??

@ Yoko Takeo: I don't think Ed and Al would approve using Hohemheim. Remember Hohemheim once asked Ed if he still wanted to use the philosopher's stone they seeked for so long? Ed refused. They might be unwilling to use the energy of the souls of Xerxes.

I think Al already got back his body. Ed only have to drag/snatch his body parts from the Truth guy. Afterwards they can fight Father.

I am curious on how they will be able to win against a philosopher's stone?? Well only Arakawa can come up with a brilliant idea to wrap the last chapters beautifully.

Possible deaths: Izumi, Roy, Wrath, Pride.
Father can be sent back from where he came i.e. the other side of the gate.
The Gate is different for each person, but there's no reason to assume that they don't all open onto the same "place" (ie: grant the same knowledge). The massive similarities in Ed's, Al's, and Izumi's alchemy post-Truth suggest that.

I don't think Ed or Al's unwillingness to use the Xerxian souls will enter the equation should Hohenheim (and more importantly, those self-same souls) decide that the boys are getting their bodies back. I've got a mental picture of Hohenheim making a final valiant sacrifice to barge back into the White Room, bodily rip Ed's arm and leg off of Truth and free Al's body, and generally "run out of bubblegum" all over the place before evaporating in a cloud of spent souls and GAR. Tell me Arakawa couldn't pull it off beautifully.

Izumi will manage to make it back from Father, because if she goes out, no way it's not fighting alongside Sig. Similarly Mustang has to hang around long enough to get back to Hawkeye and see Amestris freed from Father's iron grip. Wrath's death is a given one way or another, and I don't honestly think Pride can survive once Father is taken out. I also see Greed as a likely casualty by the end, but not necessarily Ling.
__________________
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-24, 06:20   Link #1119
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I don't think Ed or Al's unwillingness to use the Xerxian souls will enter the equation should Hohenheim (and more importantly, those self-same souls) decide that the boys are getting their bodies back. I've got a mental picture of Hohenheim making a final valiant sacrifice to barge back into the White Room, bodily rip Ed's arm and leg off of Truth and free Al's body, and generally "run out of bubblegum" all over the place before evaporating in a cloud of spent souls and GAR. Tell me Arakawa couldn't pull it off beautifully.
I was also thinking along those lines, though not quite so graphically
I'm also wondering if Hohenheim is going to die, considering the number of souls he has stored within him as the philosopher's stone. Would the Elric Bros really need all that energy to restore their bodies?
but I doubt Ed would think twice before using the souls of the Xerxian people. He's done it once, so he'll be able to do it again. One of the Xerxians even said thank you when he used their souls. It's more likely they want to be used for that is the only way their souls can be freed unto death.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-07, 09:42   Link #1120
Vicious108
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Only a few days left till 102... I don't think I've ever antecipated a FMA chapter this much. We'll finally see what the plan with the human sacrifices, which we've been hearing about for years, is all about. Literally anything could happen now.

And hopefully Arakawa will explain what exactly went on during Roy's apparent human transmutation at the end.
Vicious108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.