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Old 2009-12-04, 14:25   Link #101
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Usopp and Nami's exemple are the proof, you say that they will be able to use Haki but the fact is that they can't use it now.
The same goes for Mihawk.
Besides you have no proof whatsoever that Mihawk can use it, so there is more proof that he can't instead of that he can use it.
It is a crap shot there, is not that having proof of If they have or doesn’t have it, it is up to the Mangaka to decide this if he want it or not, but unless there is a Quote negating it, you as a reader can’t comment about it as a fact.

A simple example, Luffy had Haki all along, and only recently the author decided to tell us. If we had knew Haki since day one in OP, saying that Luffy didn’t possessed Haki would had been an absurd because there were nothing in the Manga proving it. It was a occurrence that could had gone either way.

The same you can say in Bleach with the Bankai issue and Ikkau, He had Bankai by the time he encounter Ihchigo, yet we didn’t know he had it until much later in the Manga.

Going back to Mihawk, the Kriegs Pirate all have lost their will to go on, they returned to east blue devastated after the encounter with Mihawk, and when Mihawk went looking for them, that fear return to the crew, this is a clear definition of Haki. C.A. can confirm you that.

Once again, this is not a matter of proving what is right or wrong within the Manga, rather is that you are wrong in terms on wanting to pass your assumption as facts.

Im still waiting from your Manga proof that said Mihawk can’t harm Logias, I believe this is the 3rd time I ask you this.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:27   Link #102
james0246
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@Tenryuken: Again, why are you harping so much about Mihawk? Does it really matter (right now) what he can or cannot do? There is an entire thread dedicated to the Shichibukai if you (and others) wish to discussion Mihawk's potential abilities (etc). Why don't you (and others), instead, focus on the actual characters that appeared in this chapter, rather than discussing someone that hasn't appeared in any significant way for several chapters.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:34   Link #103
Tenryuken
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Well people always overestimate Mihawk but I agree with Rurik, only from another perspective.
Some says that I take it as a fact that Mihawk doesn't have Haki but them saying "I pretty sure that Mihawk can harm Logias", doesn't that mean that they take it as a fact that Mihawk does have Haki with less proof to back their statements?

Ok, I'll look into the Shishibukai Thread.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:35   Link #104
ZeroForever
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stop feeding the trolls.... seriously there's no proof for either argument which is the point some people are trying making to you.
Stop trying to use warped logic to prove something that can only be yes/no'ed by the Author, proving they can't prove something does mean you've proved the counter point, only that there wrong.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:41   Link #105
Rurik
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This is completely off topic, but I do want to make an observation (and end up the debate here ), and that saying ""I'm pretty sure that...." could be taken just as an Assumption, as is not the same than saying "He can do...".

The first sentence represents a personal opinion, the second represents an established fact.

Lets do like James said and stop this bikering, k?
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:00   Link #106
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Well, karma is basically the result of any good or bad deeds that people have done in their life, which could even effect them when they reincarnate to their next life. So if a person has lived an honest, virtuous life, they'd be rewarded for it (good karma). On the other hand, if someone's been living a sinful existence, they'd receive divine punishment (bad karma). The way I see it, a karma DF takes that same principal into action. Imagine Sengoku using such a power against all those pirates, all criminals who built up so much bad karma due to living a life of villainy. He could punish them all by making them suffer great misfortune with his ability (the more bad karma they built up, the greater their misfortune). To be a little more specific, Sengoku could cause the pirates to accidentally injure themselves or their comrades, slip up attacks, or cause internal discord amongst themselves (like we saw him do with Squado a few chapters back). Sengoku would pretty much be something like a vengeful deity to those pirates if he had such a power at his disposal (of course, Buddha technically ISN'T a god, but still ).
Maybe I'm not catching on but I don't see how a karma-based fruit could be used as a powerful weapon. For one, how you described it sounded similar to Doflamingo's devil fruit and how he uses it. And just like Doflamingo's devil fruit, I can see a powerful character with a strong will being able to resist it.
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Old 2009-12-04, 18:41   Link #107
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Maybe I'm not catching on but I don't see how a karma-based fruit could be used as a powerful weapon. For one, how you described it sounded similar to Doflamingo's devil fruit and how he uses it. And just like Doflamingo's devil fruit, I can see a powerful character with a strong will being able to resist it.


To simplify it even further, imagine that Sengoku has a power that gives good people good luck, and bad people misfortune. The strength of said luck depends on how many good or bad deeds a person has done in their lifetime. That's why I say that if Sengoku were to use such a power on the pirates present in Marineford, it would have a pretty devestating effect since most of them have spent most, if not their entire lives sailing the seas committing wrongdoings. It's questionable if such a power would be very effective on Luffy though, since although he may be a pirate, he's done his share of good deeds during his adventures......




Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I think I would prefer if Sengoku, or at least one of the top echelon people, has a simple fruit (ala Luffy's rubber fruit). It was said in the past that it did not matter what fruit you posses, all were powerful as long as you mastered said fruit, yet all the top level people seem to have broken fruits. So, wouldn't it be cool for one of the top to have something simplistic rather than something over-the-top?


I'd have no objection to one of the elites having a simple DF power used in an insanely creative fashion (after all, I loved how Blueno's door fruit was used), but I guess I'd like to see Sengoku use such a complex power since, in addition to fitting in with his Buddha nickname, would kind of be a nice tribute to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, as well (some of the most powerful, broken Stands in that series also turned out to be amongst the most complex, after all). I'd like to see Oda take another stab at a powerful Paramecia ability that isn't simply destructive in nature (at least to an extent, anyway). I know Hancock's power kinda has that concept in mind already, but I just want to see something a little more.... again, complex.
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:45   Link #108
longnose-kun
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
^So far the only thing we can be certain of is that Sengoku and Garp are around the same level of strength, as chapter 0 indicates. At first I wasn't sure he'd have a DF power myself, but frankly I didn't expect Whitebeard to have a DF, either. So that's why I think it's most likely that he has a fruit ability, as well (I've speculated several times that he might have a karma-based DF, since it would fit well with his title of "Buddha").......
Speaking about Sengoku, his title of "The Buddha" isn't really fitting for a high ranking military officer. Buddism is all about non-violence and peace, while Sengoku is in charge of massacring over 1,000 people at this very moment. In my point of view I see it as ironic more than it having relation to his power. One line in the eightfold path blatantly says that you should hold a job tat doesn't harm others. Yet his job is to run the law enforcement, which even if it is for the greater good, still hurts people.

On another note, I really like the idea of a Karma based fruit. I hope it or something like it will come up sometime in the future, but I don't like it would be the best fruit for him. I think that his goat is actually apart of him and he has some sort of separation ability, and he jst like goats. Having to minds would help him achieve his master strategist title for he would be able to devise two strategies at once.
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Old 2009-12-04, 22:59   Link #109
Kurohitsugi
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Regarding Mihawk and defeating Logia users:
I strongly assume, that Mihawks sword is made of kairoseki. Which means, if he cuts a logia user like Crocodile, the place where the cut is gets solified and thus hurting logia users for real.
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Old 2009-12-04, 23:06   Link #110
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longnose-kun View Post
Speaking about Sengoku, his title of "The Buddha" isn't really fitting for a high ranking military officer. Buddism is all about non-violence and peace, while Sengoku is in charge of massacring over 1,000 people at this very moment. In my point of view I see it as ironic more than it having relation to his power. One line in the eightfold path blatantly says that you should hold a job tat doesn't harm others. Yet his job is to run the law enforcement, which even if it is for the greater good, still hurts people.
The contradiction between Sengoku's actions and his nickname is very interesting indeed. He's all about the ends justifying the means. The reason why he may be titled "The Buddha" could be because the WG conceals their secrets and knowledge (corruption, if you will) from the people, and consequently they remain ignorant to the truth and perceive the marines and WG as the true upholders of peace and justice. Sengoku's reputation is that of a saint, when he's far from being one.

There is a similar irony with Donquixote Doflamingo. The real Donquixote was a fanatical dreamer, whereas Doflamingo is completely opposed to dreams.
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Old 2009-12-04, 23:26   Link #111
Freya
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Saying Mihawk doesn't have haki is like saying Sengoku, admirals, Garp, Whitebeard, and everyone else who hasn't been shown to use haki yet doesnt' have haki.
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Old 2009-12-05, 01:06   Link #112
paradox13
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Quote:
Usopp and Nami's exemple are the proof, you say that they will be able to use Haki but the fact is that they can't use it now.
Proof of what?

Do you even know what the term proof means?

Quote:
I don't see any reason to doubt Mihawk's ability to cut logia as he is supposed to be stronger then Rayleigh in swordsmanship and in his prime.
Sigh.

Do i really have to break it down for you??

Rayleigh is a swordsman.
Mihawk is a swordsman.
Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world.
∴ Mihawk is stronger then Rayleigh.

Rayleigh could hit Kizaru (and presumably all logia).
∴ Mihawk, being stronger then Rayleigh, should be able to hit logia too.

Do you get it yet?

Quote:
Well people always overestimate Mihawk but I agree with Rurik, only from another perspective.
Some says that I take it as a fact that Mihawk doesn't have Haki but them saying "I pretty sure that Mihawk can harm Logias", doesn't that mean that they take it as a fact that Mihawk does have Haki with less proof to back their statements?

Ok, I'll look into the Shishibukai Thread.
It is difficult arguing with Tenryuken, because I cannot understand half of what he writes, and I cannot be sure he understand what I post either. =/
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Old 2009-12-05, 01:18   Link #113
Mr. DJ
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
It is difficult arguing with Tenryuken, because I cannot understand half of what he writes, and I cannot be sure he understand what I post either. =/
I think this describes the understanding barrier perfectly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk
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Old 2009-12-05, 02:00   Link #114
roroNwA
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juz dont mind tenryuken..
he is a fan poser, like the avatar he used (young mihawk) which he do not like it at all..

i realy love the chapter..looking forward to see Sengoku's power!!
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Old 2009-12-05, 05:03   Link #115
Nightmare-Kun
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this really struck my curiosity tbh
hopefully his power is not a major let down
i still wish he kept that awesome afro though
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Old 2009-12-05, 06:29   Link #116
Tenryuken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Rayleigh could hit Kizaru (and presumably all logia).
∴ Mihawk, being stronger then Rayleigh, should be able to hit logia too.

Do you get it yet?
It's complet non-sense.
It's like saying anybody stronger than Luffy can defeat Enel the same way Luffy did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roroNwA View Post
juz dont mind tenryuken..
he is a fan poser, like the avatar he used (young mihawk) which he do not like it at all..
You're smoking some nasty stuff, dude.
I do like Young Mihawk(who told you I didn't like him) but it's not cuz I like him that he can do WTF any swordsman in the world can do.
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Old 2009-12-05, 08:55   Link #117
MihawkXGP
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In my opinion, Sengoku has no DF power. He is a Haki based fighter, kinda like how Sentamaru was fighting..i expect him to be a similiar type of fighter...except vastly stronger.
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Old 2009-12-05, 09:23   Link #118
Prestige
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Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
In my opinion, Sengoku has no DF power. He is a Haki based fighter, kinda like how Sentamaru was fighting..i expect him to be a similiar type of fighter...except vastly stronger.
I think Sengoku is brawler aswell but I think he could have some kind of Devil fruit aswell... Paramecia or Zoan.

Zoan would enhance his fighting capabilitys and Paramecia could make him more unique and threatining... Magellan with poison was very formidable.
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Old 2009-12-05, 09:26   Link #119
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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First Captain Marco "Phoenix" Marco Vs. Admiral Aokiji should be interesting. I hope they go at for awhile and not do a little hit kick n punch, then go off and fight others. Because of their Devil Fruit abilities their fight seem like it would be a pretty good match-up.

Doflamingo Vs. Crocodile, I don't know how to feel about it. Yeah I'm interested because its Crocodile, but I see Doflamingo's ability being kind of useless against a Logia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Such a power would be completely pointless, since good and bad usually depend on a specific point of view, while such a power must require an absolute scale.

Besides: We readers know, that the marines are the bad ones, while most of the pirates are really good guys.
I don't see the Marines are the bad guys. One Piece is not simplistic to the point where one side is good and one side is bad. We are shown off and on where you have ruthless pirates and good marines, then on the hand we have ruthless marines and good pirates.
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Old 2009-12-05, 09:51   Link #120
SMASHERJACKSON
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i was expecting luffy to master haki or at least begin using it during this arc so far it doesnt seem to have happened - so i get the feeling another disaster is required for him to get serious, in this case since the war is going on i think the 2 most likely events to trigger his haki would be ace or wb's death.

for the former im expecting ace to get killed just when they think theyve recovered him or wb to get killed in battle or betrayed by squadro a 2nd time, to reveal that his reasoning earlier was bs and he had sided with the marines prior to the battle commencing for w/e reason.

but either way, or w/e happens the lack of haki on luffys part has not been impressive, if he could utilize it at amazon lily why doesnt he now?
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