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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 29 23.58%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 21.14%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 22.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 16.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 10 8.13%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 3.25%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.81%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 4.07%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-12-04, 16:02   Link #81
Leinne
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
My reaction to this episode is "lol wut" There was some talk about Ange, but that didn't seem to go anywhere. We go back to 1986 and the show has turned into some fighting anime. Suddenly George starts kicking Gaap's ass and Jessica starts falcon punching Ronove. It almost seems like they're jamming every kind of cliche in with all that talking during fights. Ah Kinzo, you nut. I do look forward to more Gaap though.
Spoiler for answer:
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:57   Link #82
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'Wealth, influence, and force...' are definitely 3 strong elements.
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Old 2009-12-04, 17:37   Link #83
June 1983
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
There was some talk about Ange, but that didn't seem to go anywhere.
??? How can you say that about the Ange scenes? Were you really paying attention? There were some very important clues given in those scenes about the overall mystery.
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Old 2009-12-04, 18:58   Link #84
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
??? How can you say that about the Ange scenes? Were you really paying attention? There were some very important clues given in those scenes about the overall mystery.
Oh it was just boring to me and I probably did lose attention. Yea, I do realize there's some relevance to the plot as Ange learns about the epitaph and sees something that might be Sakataro as suddenly she seems wholely convinced that magic exists, I just found it pretty dry.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:02   Link #85
June 1983
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Oh it was just boring to me and I probably did lose attention. Yea, I do realize there's some relevance to the plot as Ange learns about the epitaph and sees something that might be Sakataro as suddenly she seems wholely convinced that magic exists, I just found it pretty dry.
She doesn't just learn about the epitaph. She gets clues that might be very important in solving the murders and pointing out the culprit.

Amazing.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:09   Link #86
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
She doesn't just learn about the epitaph. She gets clues that might be very important in solving the murders and pointing out the culprit.

Amazing.
*Shrugs* Ok.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:30   Link #87
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...Among all things, the whole message bottles and bank vault (implying a much bigger "conspiracy") are probably the facts that make the whole mystery going to some new levels.
If you don't factor the whole blue and red arguments, these elements retrieved by Ange are the most important you can get within the scope of the first arcs of umineko. So I really wonder how it "isn't going anywhere", unless aftermath of such slaughter doesn't matter, which is very unlikely.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:41   Link #88
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I'm actually quite aware of these things. Maybe my first post seemed to pass it off as filler and pointless? Yea, it seems badly worded. No, the scenes were significant. This anime doesn't have any "useless" scenes

It's more like I just didn't care. I am more like "ok" and that is just my only reaction. Maybe because I was distracted, maybe because the anime didn't get my attention enough.
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:35   Link #89
suiryoku
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
How exactly does this episode qualify as "filler"? I think people overuse that word. It doesn't mean "an episode I think is weak or I don't like". It means "an episode full of information that isn't relevant to the plot and is just made to fill up space". If you think this episode is full of filler and isn't relevant to the plot well then ... sorry, but you aren't really paying attention to the storyline. Regardless of whether it was directed well or not (I haven't seen it yet), let me assure you that there's lots of stuff in this episode which is vital to the plot. AKA, not filler at all.
Trust me, I've been paying close attention to the whole anime. I felt as though this episode had very little to add to the anime (not saying it didn't have anything at all, just very little). Hey, I may be wrong, and it's possible things were explained in this ep that I didn't quite get or understand, and I'd be more than appreciative if you took the time to explain the key points of the significant scenes of episode 23.
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:49   Link #90
June 1983
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Trust me, I've been paying close attention to the whole anime. I felt as though this episode had very little to add to the anime (not saying it didn't have anything at all, just very little). Hey, I may be wrong, and it's possible things were explained in this ep that I didn't quite get or understand, and I'd be more than appreciative if you took the time to explain the key points of the significant scenes of episode 23.
Klash gave a pretty good explanation of the significance of this episode a few posts above, but ...

1) Ange found out that SOMEONE -- most likely the culprit or someone who was either in league with the culprit or at least aware of them -- sent out letters to relatives of those who were going to die on Rokkenjima the day before the meeting.

2) More specifically, the person did it in such a way that the letters would reach them some time after the murders -- because the intended recipients (Nanjo's son, etc) were listed as the senders and their relation on the island was listed as the recipient at an undeliverable address.

3) A very, very important note is that this person seemed to be aware of the fact that Ange was not going to be at Rokkenjima for the meeting, since she herself received one of these letters (I don't think the anime mentioned this aspect of that incident, but in this case the letter's "intended recipient" was Rudolf). This is interesting because no one knew Ange would not be attending until the very last minute, ie, after the letters seem to have been sent out.

4) This person has a playful personality and enjoys an element of "risk" (which Kinzo and Beatrice say is the core of "magic").

5) Their handwriting matches the handwriting of "Beatrice" in Maria's diary and in the bottle-letters from "Ushiromiya Maria".

6) The letters contain keys to high security bankvaults, and the code to the bankvaults is the mysterious string of numbers that was written on the door to the parlor in EP 3 (found when George and Shannon's bodies were discovered). In other words, the individual who knew the code to the bankvault, who may then be the person who sent out the letters, was on the island at the time of the murders.

7) On another note, Ange's trip revealed that Kumasawa was seriously attempting to solve the epitaph -- something we were not aware of.

8) Furthermore, it looks like she knew more about goings-on on the island and may have gotten pretty far in solving the epitaph. The photograph we saw was probably only a part of her research into the riddle, because her son said that there were more papers related to it which were split up among his siblings.

On the 1986 side of things, we learned that

1) George seems to have a more forceful and potentially dangerous aspect to his personality than we may have thought.

2) George and Jessica are both engaged in fights for their lives (regardless of whether or not demons are involved).

3) Kumasawa and Gohda have been locked in a self-imposed closed-room scenario, and this perhaps may give us a clue about other closed-room scenarios that we've seen before.

Are you still going to say that this episode didn't contribute much to the anime?
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:59   Link #91
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Are you still going to say that this episode didn't contribute much to the anime?
Nope.
I guess I didn't process this ep like I should have because it wasn't well directed. Thanks for taking the time to break it down, it was honestly appreciated.
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:01   Link #92
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Nope.
I guess I didn't process this ep like I should have because it wasn't well directed. Thanks for taking the time to break it down, it was honestly appreciated.
Well honestly, the fact that we need explanations means the anime wasn't doing its job that well either. Maybe... The more accurate statement may be that the anime didn't try hard enough to make the scenes come off as more relevant.
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:06   Link #93
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Well honestly, the fact that we need explanations means the anime wasn't doing its job that well either. Maybe... The more accurate statement may be that the anime didn't try hard enough to make the scenes come off as more relevant.
Exactly why I want DEEN to drop the series, so then I can pray that somewhere down the line, a justifiable adaptation will happen. These scenes gripped me in the original, but even for an anime-only viewer like yourself, they seemed lackluster and unimportant.
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:06   Link #94
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
Klash gave a pretty good explanation of the significance of this episode a few posts above, but ...

1) Ange found out that SOMEONE -- most likely the culprit or someone who was either in league with the culprit or at least aware of them -- sent out letters to relatives of those who were going to die on Rokkenjima the day before the meeting.

2) More specifically, the person did it in such a way that the letters would reach them some time after the murders -- because the intended recipients (Nanjo's son, etc) were listed as the senders and their relation on the island was listed as the recipient at an undeliverable address.

3) A very, very important note is that this person seemed to be aware of the fact that Ange was not going to be at Rokkenjima for the meeting, since she herself received one of these letters (I don't think the anime mentioned this aspect of that incident, but in this case the letter's "intended recipient" was Rudolf). This is interesting because no one knew Ange would not be attending until the very last minute, ie, after the letters seem to have been sent out.

4) This person has a playful personality and enjoys an element of "risk" (which Kinzo and Beatrice say is the core of "magic").

5) Their handwriting matches the handwriting of "Beatrice" in Maria's diary and in the bottle-letters from "Ushiromiya Maria".

6) The letters contain keys to high security bankvaults, and the code to the bankvaults is the mysterious string of numbers that was written on the door to the parlor in EP 3 (found when George and Shannon's bodies were discovered). In other words, the individual who knew the code to the bankvault, who may then be the person who sent out the letters, was on the island at the time of the murders.

7) On another note, Ange's trip revealed that Kumasawa was seriously attempting to solve the epitaph -- something we were not aware of.

8) Furthermore, it looks like she knew more about goings-on on the island and may have gotten pretty far in solving the epitaph. The photograph we saw was probably only a part of her research into the riddle, because her son said that there were more papers related to it which were split up among his siblings.

On the 1986 side of things, we learned that

1) George seems to have a more forceful and potentially dangerous aspect to his personality than we may have thought.

2) George and Jessica are both engaged in fights for their lives (regardless of whether or not demons are involved).

3) Kumasawa and Gohda have been locked in a self-imposed closed-room scenario, and this perhaps may give us a clue about other closed-room scenarios that we've seen before.

Are you still going to say that this episode didn't contribute much to the anime?

You forgot about Ronove saying that Genji might be his true form
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:30   Link #95
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^You're right, that IS an important point.

I didn't really think this episode was this badly directed, but if people are having a very hard time putting the pieces together ... on some level I think it might just be the format. When you're watching the anime, you're having lots of information thrown at you, and that coupled with tiny details being left out maybe makes it harder to process. Whereas in the VN, you're actively reading it, you can go backwards to a certain number of pages and review what you've read, you can decide how much you want to read at once -- either marathoning the whole thing so that it's once complete experience and you don't forget stuff from earlier in the arc, or in more manageable bits. You get a lot of those choices taken away from you when you are watching an anime, by virtue of the medium.
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:45   Link #96
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I did realize the over the top fights were entirely intentional, so that I found enjoyable. So a decent job was done on that part.

The next episode preview looks pretty amazing, actually.
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Old 2009-12-05, 00:13   Link #97
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Exactly why I want DEEN to drop the series, so then I can pray that somewhere down the line, a justifiable adaptation will happen. These scenes gripped me in the original, but even for an anime-only viewer like yourself, they seemed lackluster and unimportant.
Don't worry. Judging from the preview, episode 24 seems like it's going to be the final episode anyway.
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Old 2009-12-05, 00:16   Link #98
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Don't worry. Judging from the preview, episode 24 seems like it's going to be the final episode anyway.
Um? 26 episodes has been all but confirmed...
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Old 2009-12-05, 00:20   Link #99
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I think that's been said thousands of times... How can anybody still not know...
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Old 2009-12-05, 02:42   Link #100
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If 24 were the last episode then we would get no closure on the 1998 or Meta storylines...so...yeah...I mean, I know a lot of people are critical of DEEN and worried about how they'll handle the end of the series, but give them a little more credit, they're not going to leave us hanging on THAT badly ^^;
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