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Old 2009-12-07, 09:05   Link #861
Westlo
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Join Date: May 2007
Sounds like the failed in rebalancing.. hope the Capcom team avoid doing the same with Super Street Fighter 4.. bit of a joke that Blazblu is so unbalanced with such a small roster and SF4 (sagats nowhere near as bad as the top 3 in BB) and T6 are better balanced.
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Old 2009-12-07, 09:29   Link #862
Iromaru
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Well BB is a new game so it's obvious it'll be more unbalanced than games that were tuned over the years.

With that said they failed completely with Rachel. It's like they made her the worst on purpose.
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Old 2009-12-07, 09:33   Link #863
Westlo
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SF4 isn't really "that" similar to previous street fighters... as far as balancing goes it's on a brand new slate.. it's not like it's Super Turbo updated into 3d and the majority of the new cast is balanced rather well. It's actually balanced a lot better than the last major Street Fighter game in SF3 3rd Strike.. a lot better... no 8-2 matchups in this one...

Anyway BlazBlu Version 2 really should've been better... from what I'm reading it's Blazblue Version 1 balancing with the names switched around. Bang, Litchi and Tao are low tier? Well let's make them top tier! That sort of thing.. it's like World of Warcraft balancing.. instead of trying to put characters as close as possible.. it's more a "let's give these characters top position in this edition" type deal.
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Old 2009-12-07, 11:38   Link #864
ZeroForever
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SF4 still has plenty of 7-3 match ups though... while not as bad as the SF3 ones it's still painfully obvious in certain fights. Need to wait for SSF4 to see if capcoms balancing is any better.

i was hoping for a better job for the character edits as from what I've seen it's a meh job so far but until the games been out for a bit there's no use whining about tiers because as noted all you need it a 'clap loop' type combo for someone to discover to make a character go from worst to near top of the list again.
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Old 2009-12-08, 02:18   Link #865
Maiku-kun
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Join Date: Dec 2009
i love this game, the story is kinda confusing to me but i think the gameplay is awesome, definitely the best anime fighter ive played (not saying much i havent played many anime fighters)
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:27   Link #866
Iron Maw
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Kro_ a Rachel player from dustloop gave a nice overview of how things currently stand at the moment with tier. Looks pretty balanced to me, remember it's still early.

Quote:
So here are my impressions after a couple weeks of watching videos and playing occasionally in the arcade. I know less about some characters than others so feel free to critique.

Top
Litchi, Bang

-----Insurmountable Wall-----

High
Ragna

Mid
+ Tao, Hakumen, Carl
o Hazama, Jin, Arakune
- Tsubaki, Tager, Lambda

Low
Noel

-----Insurmountable Wall-----

Bottom
Rachel

Reasons:

Arakune - potential is there; very high damage combos and strong everything when curse is active; However, due to how easy it is to stay blocking forever thanks to the guard primer system, he may have very few chances to do any damage even if the opponent does get cursed; probably the character that can fluctuate most from high to low

Bang - fast jabs; better damage; new B nail solves the running out of nails problem; stupidly fast and safe reversal super; strong mixups with command throw, double airdashes, and crossup kick

Carl - no clap loop and j.2c overhead nerf hurts; however punch loops allow him to continue pressure and have many mixup opportunities/unblockables; the overall damage nerf across all characters no longer lets him die in 2 combos; volante and CH j.c are very nice additions; definitely a contender for high tier

Hakumen - escaped the damage nerf; new 4c and j.c are great pokes for zoning; projectile bubble is helpful; high hp and auto-meter gain allows him to hold onto leads very well; still has difficulty catching opponents; poor mixups; strengths generally outweigh weaknesses enough for him to be a contender for high tier

Hazama - strong zoning and great at escaping pressure; IB > reversal super is great with high damage; fairly good mixup game that only has room to improve; flip kick reversal is a relatively safe 'DP'; low mobility without the chain and seems to have trouble dealing with characters up close; his damage has improved with time; could possibly be high tier

Lambchops - low damage, but zoning is still strong and reversal gravity well gives her good AA; new act parsers are good offensive tools for mixups and pressure; leaning toward low-tier, but specific matchup advantages may overcome that

Litchi - improved damage; long range high priority normals for any situation; combos off any hit extremely well into full BnB for knockdown and oki; staff covers all her approaches; better shishin; rc-able tsubame; all combos lead to corner; can use super meter to trap opponents in the corner and make her oki incredibly safe and damaging

Jin - seems to be more defensive now with less ability to end combos in knockdown and oki; new j.c is a great zoning tool; pretty solid but his tier placement depends on how much is discovered about the others rather than on what he can do to improve it; probably mid-high

Noel - damage isn't high enough to justify how unsafe it is to approach with her; short range (tsubaki is just as fast with better range and safer rushdown imo); no more 2d overhead; greatest strength seems to be air-to-air jabs for low damage

Rachel - R.I.P.

Ragna - high damage meterless combos let him save all of his meter for RCing unsafe moves; belial edge allows him to have good positioning after air combos now; great normals (2c greatly improved); not top because he can't cover his approach with projectiles like the other two, more predictable mixups, low health

Tager - damage is relatively high; slightly better AA; easier to magnetize opponents; throw setups are stronger/require more guessing; backdash seems to beat most of his options aside from spark bolt; still easily outranged and zoned by long-range or speedy characters with good normals (most of the cast); might still end up low-tier due to certain bad matchups but not nearly as bad as CT

Taokaka - relatively unchanged; good mixup potential and strong combos; still lacks good oki and decent AA; taunt loops make her a strong contender for high tier

Tsubaki - speedy with decent range; strong ground-to-ground and air-to-ground; ok AA options but terrible air-to-air; gains heat meter quickly; with charge meter, specials make her threatening from any range; charge cancel, fast overhead, and long kara-throw give her a strong pressure game and decent mixup potential; low average damage without charges; has average damage with charges but difficult to find chances to charge against fast opponents; may need to forego oki to build charge meter; install has a lot of potential for damage/mixups, but has yet to see widespread use; may possibly end up being low-tier
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Old 2009-12-08, 17:57   Link #867
C.A.
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I'll probably get to try Rachel in a few days time when it arrives in Singapore.

But the entire fanbase has already given up hope on her, even the Japanese themselves can't do anything to save her.

Its the worst nerfing I've ever seen, a new nerf record by Arcsys, at least Dizzy and Johnny didn't had to win matches by time outs.

Seeing how Litchi's insane loops and Taokaka's no guage taunt combos that does nearly 7000 damage, I think that the game isn't balanced at all, its probably worst than BBCT.
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Last edited by C.A.; 2009-12-08 at 18:26.
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Old 2009-12-08, 18:18   Link #868
germanturkey
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someone who played the game a good bit in texas said on DL that the game felt incomplete or was still a beta. I can actually see that from videos posted, since it definitely feels like something is missing from the game that was there in CT. i have yet to see a 7k meterless in this game though.

also, it pains me so much to see Nu struggle to break 3k damage. pretty much the highest i've seen from her is a 3k+ 50% meter and a 4k 100% meter, which is absolutely pathetic.
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Old 2009-12-08, 18:24   Link #869
C.A.
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Taokaka's insane taunt combo, no it doesn't just work on Rachel, so its not an extra blow to Rachel players:

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Old 2009-12-08, 18:24   Link #870
Iron Maw
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I don't know about Litchi's loops, but Tao's taunt apparently isn't viable in a serious match so, it doesn't matter. I heard people played CS say that it's plenty balanced now. Bang and Litchi while being are nowhere the rape Nu, Arakure and Rachel could do in CT, and there has been good Rachels coming out lately and winning matchs.

Nu vs. Hakumen, or Tager for example was just plain unfair and not any fun in CT.
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Old 2009-12-08, 21:36   Link #871
germanturkey
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so i just watched a best of 5 where 3 of the matches were won by time out. how exciting this game is. good freaking job aksys
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Old 2009-12-08, 21:44   Link #872
SilverSyko
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Thing you have to consider though is that the console version allows you to remove or extend the time limit in any mode.

Win by Time Out problem solved.~
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Old 2009-12-08, 22:02   Link #873
Trogdor Jube
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
so i just watched a best of 5 where 3 of the matches were won by time out. how exciting this game is. good freaking job aksys
The only person who needs to win by time outs are Rachel, other then that, I don't see a problem with people winning by time outs.
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Old 2009-12-08, 22:10   Link #874
germanturkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor Jube View Post
The only person who needs to win by time outs are Rachel, other then that, I don't see a problem with people winning by time outs.
clarify for me, you mean you don't see people winning by time outs or you don't see a problem (something wrong) with people winning by time out?

and yeah, you can change the time to unlimited, but then who the heck wants to play round lasting more than a minute and a half anyways? if you can't win in that amount of time, 1. you're bad or 2. something is wrong with the game. i'm leaning towards the latter, since the new guard system and damage nerfs pretty much changed the game entirely. something that made the first game special was the ability to straight out kill someone 25-30 seconds if you knew what you were doing.
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Old 2009-12-09, 02:30   Link #875
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
so i just watched a best of 5 where 3 of the matches were won by time out. how exciting this game is. good freaking job aksys
Mind giving me link? Unless I see with my own eyes...
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Old 2009-12-09, 02:40   Link #876
germanturkey
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSffcYL_MM

i just ranted on DL about how this game won't be fun. haha..
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Old 2009-12-09, 04:08   Link #877
Tokkan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
i just ranted on DL about how this game won't be fun. haha..
Where? What thread?

Edit: Okay, I found it. And Antihippy and zaeris gave you a sound response.
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Last edited by Tokkan; 2009-12-09 at 06:21.
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Old 2009-12-09, 07:07   Link #878
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
Does it has anything to do with almost one third of their hit just don't connect?
If you want to have fun, don't be a scaredy cat. Most of the timed out matches I see are either:
- Rachel player.
- Spend too much time hitting the air.
- Scared of getting hit/losing and just back away.
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Old 2009-12-09, 07:29   Link #879
k//eternal
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A lot of the whiffed hits are to make it harder for the opponent to approach, and the rest are because the attack was dodged. And these guys are pros; it's kind of silly to imply that they're being wimps just because they're not playing as recklessly as a newer player might.

Personally, I'm also happy about the damage nerf. Face it, if your opponent goes down in 25 seconds, you know what you're doing, but they probably don't. And if you're fighting an incompetent, I doubt it'll take that much longer in this game, either.

It would also be kind of unfortunate if a single taunt loop could kill you off...
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Old 2009-12-09, 10:16   Link #880
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
A lot of the whiffed hits are to make it harder for the opponent to approach, and the rest are because the attack was dodged. And these guys are pros; it's kind of silly to imply that they're being wimps just because they're not playing as recklessly as a newer player might.
I know that, and I know all the players in the vid, but just that certain vid that I quoted above, show that they don't play seriously, because it seems like they are still experiment with the character. It's like he just chose the timed out matches.

What happened with this kind of playing? Did everyone just choose to abandon everything for defensive play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BO-fDl5lB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdV2T1D8FWM

Oh well, each to his own. I certainly will have fun with this game. Maybe not with Rachel, but who knows. Time will tell.
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